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Galactus easily outhaxxes Simon and co. Time Loop, Soul Manipulation, incredibly broken Mind Manipulation, severe experience advantage, and an "end this soon" mindset. Probability doesn't get the mechanics that far.
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Galactus vs Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
- Thread starter Graf_Thorsdottir
- Start date
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Probability Manipulation is very good against direct combat but it has VERY limited showing against hax which ignore durability. So saying probability manipulation counters everything is a huge NLF. It only works against stuff it has worked against. Galactus has many more abilities than Anti Spiral so the probability manipulation won't work. Galactus can see the future and travel time if necessary.
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STGLL is no Othinus with PM abilities.
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They didn't explain much how the ability works. Simon and co had zero probability of beating Anti Spiral as they were weak but their reactive evolution allowed them to amplify stats and grow big enough to beat Anti Spiral (and gain few abilities like breaking spacetime, travelling through dimensions and energy absorption). But it doesn't have many showing against different type of hax outside spacetime and illusions. TTLG is still awesome tho, manliness overloadThe real cal howard said:
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Simon + crew have very good mind manip resitance from getting out of the extradimensional labyrinth and a similar degree of offensive mind manip from power scaling to AS.
Simons ability to "rip space, time and dimensions" plus the feat where they teleported to an omnilocked pocket dimension, was taken as reasoning how they could counter the time loop.
Soul manip is a fact I can't deny though. More experience is likely also true since Simon didn't fight any hax opponent besides AS. Also I know that their probability manip is overestimated a lot.
Simons ability to "rip space, time and dimensions" plus the feat where they teleported to an omnilocked pocket dimension, was taken as reasoning how they could counter the time loop.
Soul manip is a fact I can't deny though. More experience is likely also true since Simon didn't fight any hax opponent besides AS. Also I know that their probability manip is overestimated a lot.
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Just a reminder, Bleach fodder Moe Shishigawara has probabilty manipulation and he gets eaten for breakfast by Gremmy or Lille Barro. Probability Manipulation is as good as its showings, its often prone to NLF
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Simon has displayed the ability to manipulate his spiral energy at will (e.g. creating STTGL and other various weapons from his energy). Creating matter out of energy requires a high degree of manipulative control (which is exactly why I think transmutation won't be effective against him)
The Simon of the past should still be rather human (he always had his spiral power, but not at such a high degree), but there have been no instances of galactus time travelling as far as I know, so I think thats irrelevant. However Simon should be able to, by powerscaling from Anti-Spiral (should have brought that up as an argument earlier).
Shift dimensions? I'm not sure what you mean by this. I know they teleported to the Anti-spirals universe before achieving TTGL, but for me it was always the newfound resolve they gained from meeting kamina again and breaking out of the extradimensional labyrinth that enabled them of creating TTGL.
Hope that answers your questions.
The Simon of the past should still be rather human (he always had his spiral power, but not at such a high degree), but there have been no instances of galactus time travelling as far as I know, so I think thats irrelevant. However Simon should be able to, by powerscaling from Anti-Spiral (should have brought that up as an argument earlier).
Shift dimensions? I'm not sure what you mean by this. I know they teleported to the Anti-spirals universe before achieving TTGL, but for me it was always the newfound resolve they gained from meeting kamina again and breaking out of the extradimensional labyrinth that enabled them of creating TTGL.
Hope that answers your questions.
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So I went through this thread and now I am absolutely certain that STTGL wins this.
To summarize :
1. Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann could attack throughout all of time and can defend against the same kind of attack.
2. Simon (and probably other members of team Dai Guren) has Low 2C Durability for surviving a collapsing universe
3. Lord Genome underwent quantum breakdown and rebuilt himself as a giant drill by becoming one with the energy of the Infinity Big Bang Storm.
Basically, these answer the three major hax advantages that Galactus supposedly has over Simon/STTGL : time hax, BFR (to Black Hole, Sun etc.) and Transmutation respectively
To summarize :
1. Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann could attack throughout all of time and can defend against the same kind of attack.
2. Simon (and probably other members of team Dai Guren) has Low 2C Durability for surviving a collapsing universe
3. Lord Genome underwent quantum breakdown and rebuilt himself as a giant drill by becoming one with the energy of the Infinity Big Bang Storm.
Basically, these answer the three major hax advantages that Galactus supposedly has over Simon/STTGL : time hax, BFR (to Black Hole, Sun etc.) and Transmutation respectively
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Transmutation can be countered by high enough matter manip (which Simon has by creating weapons and such from pure energy). Look at the matter manip page for more info.
Omnipresential attack as well as instant time travel make up for galactus time hax.
BFR most likely won't work against TTGL as he can teleport even to omnilocked universes.
The only hax galactus has that is a threat to TTGL is his soul manip.
Omnipresential attack as well as instant time travel make up for galactus time hax.
BFR most likely won't work against TTGL as he can teleport even to omnilocked universes.
The only hax galactus has that is a threat to TTGL is his soul manip.
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But how exactly do you verse-equalize for something as vague as soul manipulation ? I could go out on a limb and say spiral energy (or the idea of it) is the de-facto character "soul" in Gurren Lagann verse.
After all we have statements from the characters (specifically Kittan and Simon) saying exactly that at two different instances (the exact line is : "this drill is my soul")
After all we have statements from the characters (specifically Kittan and Simon) saying exactly that at two different instances (the exact line is : "this drill is my soul")
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Unless souls are mentioned within a verse to be different from standard we usually assume that everyone has a soul.
I should rewatch TTGL in search for quotes about souls. Then I might be able to answer those questions and uncertainties. "This drill is my soul" can very well mean something like spiral energy being there soul, however out of context it seems like flowery language.
I should rewatch TTGL in search for quotes about souls. Then I might be able to answer those questions and uncertainties. "This drill is my soul" can very well mean something like spiral energy being there soul, however out of context it seems like flowery language.
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There are other details too :
The Anti-spiral created a completely artificial, completely sentient being - Nia, who is "corrupted" and turned into an "irregular" by being exposed to Simon's massive Spiral Power. Does Nia have a "soul" ? Did it get corrupted by Spiral Power ?
Lord Genome is able to re-create his body (using spiral power) for the final fight. Did he also re-create his "soul" ? Lord Genome was certainly dead at the time, in fact, his severed head acted more like an intelligent computer than an actual person with emotions, passions etc. and yet, within the temporary body he behaves like himself (as we have seen him earlier), has memories of Nia and Viral and sacrifices himself of his own free will (apparently). In fact, it is markedly different from his behavior as a severed head
The Anti-spiral created a completely artificial, completely sentient being - Nia, who is "corrupted" and turned into an "irregular" by being exposed to Simon's massive Spiral Power. Does Nia have a "soul" ? Did it get corrupted by Spiral Power ?
Lord Genome is able to re-create his body (using spiral power) for the final fight. Did he also re-create his "soul" ? Lord Genome was certainly dead at the time, in fact, his severed head acted more like an intelligent computer than an actual person with emotions, passions etc. and yet, within the temporary body he behaves like himself (as we have seen him earlier), has memories of Nia and Viral and sacrifices himself of his own free will (apparently). In fact, it is markedly different from his behavior as a severed head
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This drill is my soul most likely is flowery language.
I have rewatched a good part of it and came to the following conclusion. There really could be something like a soul (the stronger your soul/willpower the higher your spiral power). But I didn't find definitve proof. So no soul manip unless I stumble over some evidence I missed.
I have rewatched a good part of it and came to the following conclusion. There really could be something like a soul (the stronger your soul/willpower the higher your spiral power). But I didn't find definitve proof. So no soul manip unless I stumble over some evidence I missed.
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