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Gagamaru change
- Thread starter The_King_of_Prudence
- Start date
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The only way you can say its reflection is in the sense of a mirror giving the attributes onto another image, but not in the way we usually refer to attack reflection. It would be more like translation than reflection in that context.
Well first off, no one is immune to damage here, let's be clear on that. If you mean that you want an example of damage translating regardless of speed or tier, then look at literally any other damage transfer user. Not a single time in any of The Poster Child of this ability's matches on his profile is it ever asked if a character is too fast to have Highway to Hell work on them, nor have I seen a single person ask if pain split or endeavor will not work due to a speed or tier difference short of perhaps speed blitz.
I'm not on the computer right now, but I believe I had it saved from a while ago. I'll go look for it as well, but i believe this was also actually brought up in a previous CRT, with the scan in mind linked there if we can find it.
Well first off, no one is immune to damage here, let's be clear on that. If you mean that you want an example of damage translating regardless of speed or tier, then look at literally any other damage transfer user. Not a single time in any of The Poster Child of this ability's matches on his profile is it ever asked if a character is too fast to have Highway to Hell work on them, nor have I seen a single person ask if pain split or endeavor will not work due to a speed or tier difference short of perhaps speed blitz.
I'm not on the computer right now, but I believe I had it saved from a while ago. I'll go look for it as well, but i believe this was also actually brought up in a previous CRT, with the scan in mind linked there if we can find it.
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The note makes no sense to add when literally no other damage transfer user is held to the same standard. This is the clearest cut form of bias to hold one verse to a higher standard than any otherAntvasima said:
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Gagamaru is immune to damage because when he transfers damage he doesn't take it himself.
Thunder McQueen isn't immune to damage that he transfers, so it's purely offensive, and is fine.
Endeavor is purely offensive. Pain split moves the damage after it's been applied. Healing and dura neg (essentially what pain split functions as) don't face NLF issues in the same way invulnerability (what Encounter functions as) does.
None of Thunder McQueen, Endeavor, or Pain Split let their users tank universal MFTL+ attacks, they simply let their uses deal damage/heal after they've been dealt damage.
It's not about verse, Medaka Box is my favourite verse in fiction from my favourite author, it's about mechanics.
Thunder McQueen isn't immune to damage that he transfers, so it's purely offensive, and is fine.
Endeavor is purely offensive. Pain split moves the damage after it's been applied. Healing and dura neg (essentially what pain split functions as) don't face NLF issues in the same way invulnerability (what Encounter functions as) does.
None of Thunder McQueen, Endeavor, or Pain Split let their users tank universal MFTL+ attacks, they simply let their uses deal damage/heal after they've been dealt damage.
It's not about verse, Medaka Box is my favourite verse in fiction from my favourite author, it's about mechanics.
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- Thread starter
- #45
It's not quite invulnerability, it's more like a healing ability that works as he takes damage. He may momentarily die from attacks, but as he can posh away his own death, it usually won't last long.
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There's no evidence that he momentarily dies, or that he even needs to take the damage to transfer it. You're bringing up explanations that are never even hinted at in the text to get around it being NLF.
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- Thread starter
- #47
I'm saying that that might happen against some opponents, it is just headcanon though.
Is there ever a point where we decide that an ability actually has no limits?
Is there ever a point where we decide that an ability actually has no limits?
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- Thread starter
- #48
Of course, if it actually works like a portal, then it would always be instant.
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There seemed to be a bit of a delay when he pushed it to Medaka.
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Really doesn't seem like it just instantly redirects the damage, then
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- Thread starter
- #52
There was also a slight delay when pushing it onto the beam. As it transfers damage, not force (he can still be moved), and there's only so much damage that he can possibly take (after which he's just elementary particles moving apart at varying speeds), is there even a no-limits fallacy here?
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For an example, here Hinokage punches Gagamaru, stops and leaves his hand still on the guy's cheek. There's a flashback, and when it's over, Hinokage's hand is still in the same place. Then he asks where all the damage goes to, Gagamaru says that he sent it somewhere close by, and just then Medaka is hit.
https://imgur.com/a/OduVr0N
Some ten sentences of dialogue before the damage is transferred.
https://imgur.com/a/OduVr0N
Some ten sentences of dialogue before the damage is transferred.
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- Thread starter
- #55
How does that affect it's mechanics/limits, again?
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The idea here seemed to be that Encounter works like a portal, sending damage away instantly, so Gagamaru can use it against attacks far above anything he's ever tanked. Just showing it's not instant at all.
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He chooses when to send it. Like he did against Kumagawa.
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Then it's neither instant nor automatic, right?
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It'd be an All Fiction or Scar Dead case, he can choose to hold it back, instant otherwise. Like when shibuki smashed his head as a kid.
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- Thread starter
- #60
I thought that it just took time to reach its destination.
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I really don't understand why the note is still there. I think its kinda common to obviously know that Gagamaru can't Encounter Everything due to NFL. However, keeping the note there is like adding extra precaustions. If that's the case there are tons of characters on VS Battle that should also have the note.
Example like Wolfgang Schrieber .
Example like Wolfgang Schrieber .
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When the note was removed people used that as a reason in threads to say "Look! We can say it reaches above CB now!" That's why I came back to this thread to get it re-added.
If we had the same issue with other characters we'd likely include a note there.
If we had the same issue with other characters we'd likely include a note there.
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To literally quote what I said regarding this when it was originally added:Mr. Common Sense said:
Usually when it comes to abilities which have some NLF factor I don't mind if just the canon description is used and the NLF potential isn't explicitely mentioned on the page. That is simply, because most of the time people don't assume abilities to have NLF extent, because they know that we would limit it to the highest showings. If you look at Gagamaru Chougasaki's vs-threads though you see it a lot that people assume Encounter to work against opponents with attacks much more powerful and fast than Encounter was ever shown or reliably stated to work against. Hence I would want to add a note to his page pointing that part out, so that discussions don't constantly involve that NLF. |
