Future King Faceoff (CONCLUDED; INCON)

[Kachon123]

What's stopping Luffy from nullifying all of Asta's attacks by turning his blades into rubber whenever Asta attacks him?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Future sight and Voice of All Things.

Has Luffy used Voice of All Things in combat before?

Doesn’t future sight require activation and concentration? If Asta doesn’t make a move to use Zetten unless Luffy makes a move, how will Luffy see that future. Is the user able to see a time line where he himself make a move in the future?

He was doing that left and right against Kata.

I never saw this in the fight. The only thing I remember was Luffy predicting Kara’s attacks while dodging/doing nothing NOT while attacking. While Luffy switched to attacking Kata would land blows on him.

Luffy baits people like that all the time albeit it's typically to disarm them.

Well… good for him. Doesn’t save him from being baited himself (and that’s not the only way Asta can get in a good position. One other way is that Asta can also just land hits in such a way that he sets up an attack.)

This is every Kenbun user, reading the minds of their enemies and sensing attacks in the near future with a certain power level
Just like how Satori could tell Luffy would throw a stretched punch before Luffy ever attacked him

These are only for immediate incoming attacks.

When has it been used to unravel complex strategies like “im only going to use this certain slash attack when a move is made and when im in proximity”

This is him regularly

Never seen him use kenbun offensively like that. So let me get this straight, Luffy will throw a stretched punch while also trying to predict his opponent at the same time before the attack lands?

 

[Kachon123]

Doesn’t future sight require activation and concentration

Nope. Luffy automatically used Future Sight to see Thunder Bagua, Apoo's attacks, and to protect Hyogoro.

There's also the fact that Kenbun is mostly passive, seeing Sanji dodging Katakuri's jellybean, Akainu using Haki to avoid getting hit by Vista and Marco, and Zoro blocking Kaku's attack on the Sunny despite sleeping.

 

[KingTempest]

Doesn’t future sight require activation and concentration? If Asta doesn’t make a move to use Zetten unless Luffy makes a move, how will Luffy see that future. Is the user able to see a time line where he himself make a move in the future?

"Activation and concentration" it activates whenever it needs to and the user doesn't need to stay and meditate. You just can't be in your feelings when using it

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Now the pages are shorter right? Because there are only 124 (125 with this one) post and there is already 4 pages

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Ant wants the site to looks bigger

 

[Arnoldstone18]

What's stopping Luffy from nullifying all of Asta's attacks by turning his blades into rubber whenever Asta attacks him?

If Luffy is close enough to touch the blades he’s getting blitzed.

And if he can do it without touching then fights in One piece wouldn’t last a chapter

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Now the pages are shorter right? Because there are only 124 (125 with this one) post and there is already 4 pages

40 messages per page, correct

Ant wants the site to looks bigger

Nah, it's cuz it helps with advertising. Gotta has money to sustain the forums

 

[Kachon123]

If Luffy is close enough to touch the blades he’s getting blitzed.

And if he can do it without touching then fights in One piece wouldn’t last a chapter

It's passive.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

So what’s Asta going to do here if everything he does passively gets turned to rubber.

 

[Kachon123]

So what’s Asta going to do here?

Try to beat him before he uses Gear 5

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Suppress his limits

 

[LordGinSama]

So what’s Asta going to do here if everything he does passively gets turned to rubber.

It's only passive via touch. Not like anything that comes next to him is turned to rubber.

 

[Nierre]

yall are free to argue of course,

but this is like 9-8 now? (something around tht) It's probably best if we call it incon

 

[Eminiteable]

yall are free to argue of course,

but this is like 9-8 now? (something around tht) It's probably best if we call it incon

Voting Luffy fra fra

 

[Arnoldstone18]

As I imagined. It’s touch based.

Well I’m still not convinced future sight will enable the user see moves that won’t even used in the future unless certain conditions are met. It’s not that complex.

And if those conditions are met and Asta decides to use it, Luffy isn’t dodging it with Future sight .

These conditions include:

• Asta will wait until the distance is close where the blitz is certain.
• Asta will wait or force a situation where Luffy isn’t in the position to dodge. Often times this comes immediately after Luffy makes a move. So even if Luffy uses future sight his body wouldn’t be able to be in the position to dodge. Asta can force the situation by relentlessly attacking him until he’s in a tough position to dodge similar to what Ichika did to Asta.

yall are free to argue of course,

but this is like 9-8 now? (something around tht) It's probably best if we call it incon

Yeah it’s already grace for Incon.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Asta will wait or force a situation where Luffy isn’t in the position to dodge

But then Luffy shouts "THE ONE PIEEEEEEEEEEEEEECE, THE ONE PIECE IS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL" and Asta devolves into Henry from Hungry Joker

 

[Epsilon_R]

But then Luffy shouts "THE ONE PIEEEEEEEEEEEEEECE, THE ONE PIECE IS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL" and Asta devolves into Henry from Hungry Joker

Heidi*

Respect the OG

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Luffy fra

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Heidi*

Respect the OG

I wanted you to correct me, senpai

 

[Arnoldstone18]

So what's left to be discussed now?

Asta can one shot at any moment while having the skills and abilities to survive long enough for that to happen.

So are we sticking with Incon or?

 

[Zeifyl]

I've now looked through every post on this thread, and every argument I've seen for Zetten has given me flashbacks of Marineford Luffy managing to dodge hits from Mihawk. And I, personally, don't see how Zetten is any different. OHK slash the (faster than Luffy) user knows exactly when to use.

 

[ThatDarnFish]

This is Zoro vs Fate Musashi all over again. I look away and we're suddenly several pages in.

Now I gotta look through all this and count the votes

 

[Zeifyl]

This is Zoro vs Fate Musashi all over again. I look away and we're suddenly several pages in.

Now I gotta look through all this and count the votes

That's what you GET!

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Luffy managing to dodge hits from Mihawk

Marineford and its plot armor to make Luffy survive, if Mihawk was not holding back (and he said he would not), he would have blitzed Luffy 50 times over and Luffy at that moment has no skill to compete with Mihawk at all

 

[ThatDarnFish]

Devil Fruit : 9

Devil Child: 8

Or something along those lines, assuming I didn't miss any serious votes or counted one more than once

 

[Nierre]

Grace for incon ended with Gorilla's vote

 

[Xinsignia1]

Isn't Asta a pretty hard counter to precog since his future can't be read? (which was stated) The witch queen, and Lucius both use different forms of precog (WQ uses divinations, Lucius uses time-magic) and neither can see him. It's stated his future can't be read period. So, even if, Luffy's reading the world, if Asta's in it, he still shouldn't be able to see him.
Adding that with zetten seems like a pretty solid wincon.

So I'm voting for Asta.

 

[Zeifyl]

Marineford and its plot armor to make Luffy survive, if Mihawk was not holding back (and he said he would not), he would have blitzed Luffy 50 times over and Luffy at that moment has no skill to compete with Mihawk at all

Oh, it's most certainly pure plot armor. But you gotta admit that the vibes are exactly the same as here.
Though if it's true that Asta's future can't be read, then I'll vote for him.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Asta fra

 

[Epsilon_R]

I think it was Dorothy in ch 361 who said that, right after Lucius came to the same conclusion the chapter prior

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Welp, match is over, let’s add these as Incon.

 

[Ryuga21]

Even if Asta kills Luffy with Zetten first time (and don't destroy his heart) he will come back with Gear 5 activated via drums of liberation.

When Asta's swords touch second time Luffy in Gear 5, it will just instantly being turned to rubber, just bouncing off his body.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yeah he’ll come back… he’ll come back missing half his body missing as long as heart remains intact. Smh.

Match is over, this should be closed.

 

[Ryuga21]

It was a hypothesis, from what I know Asta doesn't usually tear his enemies in half so viscerally.

Anyway, hasn't anyone considered the fact that Luffy doesn't necessarily need to make physical contact? Beyond ACoA will simply project his Haki to destroy Asta internally and punch him generating a force-field.

 

[Nierre]

not his starting move AFAIK

iirc he didn't do that against Kizaru nor Lucci. Or even the Seraphim

 

[Ryuga21]

He didn't fight seriously in any of those fights

 

[Nierre]

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

He didn't fight seriously in any of those fights

We are reaching "Goku holds back" levels of bullshit

Not to antagonize you, just memeing

 

[Arnoldstone18]

It was a hypothesis, from what I know Asta doesn't usually tear his enemies in half so viscerally

You’re right. He doesn’t.

The match is over.