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Asta resists mind hax, not mind reading. It doesn't matter if they're subsets, they're still categorized as different abilities for a reason.
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Future King Faceoff (CONCLUDED; INCON)
- Thread starter ThatDarnFish
- Start date
- Status
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In fact, nothing on the Wiki suggests either interpretation, and it is possible to resist an ability that is a subset of another to which you have resistance.
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You aren’t gonna resist someone fearhaxing you because you can resist somebody talking to your brain
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- Thread starter
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Pirate King 5
Wizard King 1
Wizard King 1
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- Thread starter
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6 for the Pirate who doesn't really Pirate
1 for the wizard without magic
1 for the wizard without magic
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Following
Will respond later when I’m done with school stuff.
Will respond later when I’m done with school stuff.
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Alright I got some time.
PDU Asta has the speed advantage so he should get off a Zetten faster and Luffy will not be able to dodge it even if he knows it’s coming his body will not react fast enough to Asta’s superior reaction speed. So Zetten is most definitely a wincon here.
Edit: I thought Asta started in Base. I could’ve sworn his 5-C was base form by now. I’ll look into it. But for now he doesn’t have a speed advantage but the range and distance between Asta and Luffy should still allow Asta to land Zetten blow(s) on Luffy (Asta often uses Zetten few meters away and is skilled enough to find openings at that distance)
Asta by now has a lot of experience fighting those who have precognition. If Luffy knows what Asta is going to do Asta can instinctively change his move to react to Luffy reacting to the future he envisions thus indirectly changing that future (innate instinctive reactions amped by Yami and Kiato’s swordsmanship). And of course this is possible because Asta is definitely aware when someone is trying to read his mind or predict him via Ki.
Voting Asta btw cuz he has an answer and the endurance for all of Luffy’s stuff.
PDU Asta has the speed advantage so he should get off a Zetten faster and Luffy will not be able to dodge it even if he knows it’s coming his body will not react fast enough to Asta’s superior reaction speed. So Zetten is most definitely a wincon here.
Edit: I thought Asta started in Base. I could’ve sworn his 5-C was base form by now. I’ll look into it. But for now he doesn’t have a speed advantage but the range and distance between Asta and Luffy should still allow Asta to land Zetten blow(s) on Luffy (Asta often uses Zetten few meters away and is skilled enough to find openings at that distance)
Asta by now has a lot of experience fighting those who have precognition. If Luffy knows what Asta is going to do Asta can instinctively change his move to react to Luffy reacting to the future he envisions thus indirectly changing that future (innate instinctive reactions amped by Yami and Kiato’s swordsmanship). And of course this is possible because Asta is definitely aware when someone is trying to read his mind or predict him via Ki.
Voting Asta btw cuz he has an answer and the endurance for all of Luffy’s stuff.
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Honestly It’s not a stalemate due to Asta’s skill.
Remember the whole point of Asta’s training was to catch his opponent in a position where they can’t react (and no I don’t mean speed wise, I mean getting caught in awkward positions for instance). So even if Luffy performs an action in response to his precog, Asta can catch that Luffy is responding to his next move and use Luffy’s response as an opening for his close range Zetten.
Remember the whole point of Asta’s training was to catch his opponent in a position where they can’t react (and no I don’t mean speed wise, I mean getting caught in awkward positions for instance). So even if Luffy performs an action in response to his precog, Asta can catch that Luffy is responding to his next move and use Luffy’s response as an opening for his close range Zetten.
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That would definitely work against base Luffy but G5 would probably be a hard counter to that fighting style since it's unpredictable and uses unstable and awkward positions to his advantage.
Will reply to the rest in a bit.
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I'm pretty sure comparing Kiato's gimmick to the shenanigans gear 5 luffy gets into is a false equivalence.
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???
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Everything Luffy does is unpredictable as hell, what are we talking about
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Not on the level of G5. Even people with future sight and mind reading like Kaidou and Lucci (Not the FS but mind reading via Kenbunshoku.) Haki had great troubles in actually tagging him.
G5 is like a cartoon, unpredictable in that fashion since things are always changing and hardly anyone has experience in fighting cartoon like whacky entities.
Kiato's is different and frankly nothing in comparison to G5's unpredictable nature. Kiato just turns off his mind, that's not really "unpredictable." Luffy could do the same against Enel and Enel was still whooping that ass.
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Different levels. His normal attacks are pretty random but not like Tom and Jerry type of unpredictable.
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If Asta looks at the mf and he stretches he's gonna be thrown for a loop
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Tbh I don't think stretching in a linear fashion is gonna throw Asta on a loop with his ki sensing. Things like Snake-Man where the trajectory is always changing should definitely make things very difficult for Asta to react to though.
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Their haki is equal so it essentially cancels out
I know.
Ehh, I don't deny that Kiato's isn't nearly as impressive as G5
but the point is that he can deal with unpredictable abilities and skills that make Precognition moot, essentially.
Which is why I don't think it will be ALL that effective.
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Its nothing Asta's Ki, Accelerated Development and adaptability can't handle. Asta at this point in the story should be highly used to characters who are unpredictable.
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I mean Luffy's unpredictability is based off randomness, NOT resistance to precog so in a way you are right. Randomness is easily covered by Asta's precog and adaptability to situations.
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No? That's for things like Buso. It can't be the same for Kenbunshoku if they're like 100% equal but Lucci's Kenbunshoku is a far cry from being equal to Luffy's.
You literally can't even compare the two. Kaito isn't becoming unpredictable in a literal sense, all he's doing is turning off his mind. Again that's something even early OP characters could handle.
That doesn't mean much if he has no experience in fighting something that unpredictable. Also change that Sasuke pfp before I leak your address.
This argument is better but Ki reading isn't gonna be doing anything to G5 if Lucci couldn't tell what Luffy's next moves were gonna be even with Kenbunshoku Haki. Both Ki reading and mid level Kenbunshoku are pretty comparable.
Tbh G5's passive Empowerment should make Asta's AD null, vice versa as well. Luffy also has adaption himself although KT probably knows more about Luffy's adaption than me.
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Nah, it's the same for Kenbun as well.
From what I remember, if two Kebun users that are comparable in speed are able to trade blows, then that means that their Kenbun is comparable (as long as there aren't any types of interferences).
There have been instances where characters with Kenbun have been tagged by characters without it, but there've been varying reasons for it (Like Luffy vs Enel, Shura vs Luffy and Sanji, Boa Sisters vs Luffy, Shura vs Wyper etc etc).
Yes but that's able to throw off his Ki, which as you said, is comparable to mid level Kenbun.
Minus the fact that Asta spams Zetten that's a massive speed amp (20x? I don't remember).
While I do agree that Luffy's G5 + FS will be hard for Asta to handle, I don't see Luffy transforming AND beating Asta faster than Asta can just... spam Zetten with a sword strike
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Not quite, as seen with Kata vs Luffy they could both still use FS against each other but doesn't necessarily work well since the futures they both read are consistently being changed. Same with Kata and Sanji, Kata saw a future and attacked but Sanji foresaw that in the future so he dodged.
Not quite, that's dependent on the mastery of said Kenbunshoku. Trading blows and having the same speed is separate from Kenbunshoku levels.
Well you just said it yourself, for varying reasons. Enel vs Luffy was Luffy turning his mind off. Shura never fought Luffy and Sanji. Luffy increased his speed enough to blitz past the Boa sisters, and Wyper vs Shura, Shura let himself be stabbed on purpose.
A little confused on what you mean here. Ki and Kenbunshoku are two different things so I don't think they'd cancel one another out aside from stalemating.
Depending on the distance this shouldn't be that much of a problem since it'd lose speed the longer the distance it has to cover.
Also Zetten doesn't really have good AoE, it has range but the area of effect is meh.
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Don’t forget that the mechanic behind Asta’s precog and Kenbun is different even though Kenbun is better. That difference helps Asta here. Let me guess, Luffy’s so random that even if you see the future he still appears random in the future so it’s pointless seeing the future. But in Asta’s case, Luffy can be random how ever he wants but incorporating Ki into your fighting means that you have to react instinctively to threats you predict. Hence why Asta and Yami are so good against danmaku (spamming 20 or more attacks at a go). Unlike Kenbun, Asta will read Luffy’s life force to know what he’s going to do next. Then (like Yami explains it) react halfway through instinctively to defend against it. (Hence why Yami can look away from an enemy, talk and react to attacks because of that element of instinctive reactions). So unless Luffy can resist his life force from being read, I don’t see him resisting Asta’s Ki precog.
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no. Kenbun has like 7 different abilities. only the advanced version is seeing the future
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Also we’re in grace now. The vote is 7-4 for Luffy
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Luffy can do the same with the ability to hear Asta's "voice." and unlike with Kenbunshoku mind reading simply turning off his mind won't let Asta counter this. Reason? Voice of All things can read the minds of things that don't even have minds to begin, such as rocks and such.
Who said anything about resisting? I mentioned unpredictability but I never said anything about him being resistant to precognition lol.
Unpredictability is just a countermeasure, it isn't like he's like outright not being seen in the future.
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I didn’t accuse you of saying you did
But yeah I’m also saying that instinctive reaction is a counter counter measure.
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Not what I'm saying. I wasn't sure if you assumed that based off of how I worded it, to which it admittedly could sound that way.I didn’t accuse you of saying you did
More so me clearing confusion rather than me assuming your accusing me of something lol.
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Asta isn’t turning off his mind, his mind is elsewhere.which will throw off Luffy.
I notice someone say Asta turns off his mind and I was confused cuz that’s not Kiato’s style, that’s his natural style through near death experience.
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Where is his mind then?
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Lmao.Where is his mind then?
When Asta was trying to read Kiato’s mind, he said his mind was elsewhere. So not only was Asta not able to read his moves due to his senses getting thrown off by Kiato’s movements but he also wasn’t able to tell what he was thinking too. Asta stole that fighting style and made it his own.
So idk just imagine Asta thinking about fried chicken while his body fights on its own.
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Kenbun senses both the intent of the individual and the intent of the attack itself, which is why users are able to dodge danmaku.
Attacks based on instinct still have an intent to them. Regardless of Asta is specifically thinking of attacking or not, the sword swing's intent is to hit the target at a specific spot, which Luffy would be able to read.
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I don't think that's meant to be taken literally. That's a literal saying you know right?
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Lack of AoE, the distance and precognition / mind reading. Could literally just jump up to avoid it.
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