Fuji NEVER Cry [DMC Tier 1 Downgrades Yet Again]

[ImmortalDread]

Fixed, you are embarrassing yourself right now. Seriously, you need to stop with this habit.

Well, depends on whether you can use the universes as measuring sticks for distances in the depiction or not.
Usually, you can not, because they are depicted as floating bubbles or lines or whatever which don't really depict proper size, and in that case I would say no to all of them

Fuji did not misinterpret it at all.

The only valid thing, you have said is "wait for conclusion", so no need to spam here. Anyway, @Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara , I agree with your thread, the new standard is pretty much straightforward, but you mind waiting till it gets concluded?

Thanks for your understanding

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't think anyone is "embarrassing themselves" simply for giving their opinion on the matter, but as far as this thread itself goes, I suppose the downgrade does make sense given what's been said in the Tier 1 thread.

I just have one question about this though:

Literally the entire premise of tier 1 DMC is the HW being a line compared to the DW.

If the HW is a line compared to the DW, doesn't that imply a higher dimensionality given that a line is a 1-D object?

 

[Eseseso]

I don't think anyone is "embarrassing themselves" simply for giving their opinion on the matter, but as far as this thread itself goes, I suppose the downgrade does make sense given what's been said in the Tier 1 thread.

I just have one question about this though:

If the HW is a line compared to the DW, doesn't that imply a higher dimensionality given that a line is a 2-D object?

If you look at the scan, it really doesn't imply dimensional superiority.

Devil May Cry - Cosmology Explanation Page

Currently, we accept the feat of Pluto (Demon King who preceded Mundus) splitting the original universe into two separate ones, as per this explanation page. The demon world and human world are noted to be two separate universal space times. We already accept both being separate universes. For...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I don't think anyone is "embarrassing themselves" simply for giving their opinion on the matter, but as far as this thread itself goes, I suppose the downgrade does make sense given what's been said in the Tier 1 thread.

I just have one question about this though:

If the HW is a line compared to the DW, doesn't that imply a higher dimensionality given that a line is a 1-D object?

The ongoing tier 1 revision would suggest that such size comparisons aren't really usable; You'd still need direct evidence that the DW's 5D axis is infinite, although I'd ask DT for clarification on this point.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Fixed, you are embarrassing yourself right now. Seriously, you need to stop with this habit.

The only valid thing, you have said is "wait for conclusion", so no need to spam here. Anyway, @Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara , I agree with your thread, the new standard is pretty much straightforward, but you mind waiting till it gets concluded?

Thanks for your understanding

Sure, I'm fine with that.

 

[CloverDragon03]

The ongoing tier 1 revision would suggest that such size comparisons aren't really usable; You'd still need direct evidence that the DW's 5D axis is infinite, although I'd ask DT for clarification on this point.

Fair enough. Not sure I agree with that logic but I also don't exactly care enough to contest it so there's that

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I agree with the OP as of the moment. I'm kinda nitpicky on how she phrased it but it gets the general idea that low 2-C being infinitely larger is no longer sufficient and needs actual proof of it being large enough to have higher cardinality (the uncountably infinite universe thing and not just more 2-A).

However, since the scan that supports low 1-C kinda implies endless darkness and line of light
I believe this is something more than 2-C in terms of size
IDK how we rate endless but IIRC it is enough for 2-A or 2-B
or we can just do it on the next thread lmao

 

[Eseseso]

I agree with the OP as of the moment. I'm kinda nitpicky on how she phrased it but it gets the general idea that low 2-C being infinitely larger is no longer sufficient and needs actual proof of it being large enough to have higher cardinality (the uncountably infinite universe thing and not just more 2-A).

However, since the scan that supports low 1-C kinda implies endless darkness and line of light
I believe this is something more than 2-C in terms of size
IDK how we rate endless but IIRC it is enough for 2-A or 2-B
or we can just do it on the next thread lmao

Countless is 2-B, Endless is IIRC 2-A.

Since Endless = Infinite.

 

[Tanin_iver]

Reminder to everyone that this is a staff thread, please don't clog it. Thank you.

 

[Fixxed]

Fixed, you are embarrassing yourself right now. Seriously, you need to stop with this habit.


Fuji did not misinterpret it at all.

The only valid thing, you have said is "wait for conclusion", so no need to spam here. Anyway, @Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara , I agree with your thread, the new standard is pretty much straightforward, but you mind waiting till it gets concluded?

Thanks for your understanding

Bruh... just see DT next comment, he talking about visual dipicted. So we cannot have the universe as measuring sticks

Yeah, the problem with visual depictions is that you have to violate size in some way if you want to show 5D space in a 2D/3D image.
E.g.

This is a somewhat typical way to depict timelines. But you can't really see the width/height/depth of the universes in a way that would allow you to conclude how big the distance between them is. Like, that they are thin lines is obviously a metaphor, not something you could use in pixel scaling. (Otherwise this would just be a bigger 3D space and hence not 5D at all)

He not mean the line literally a line, in fact perceive as line if it mean literally is perceive as 1 dimensional object

I dont know why everyone just read a slice of that thread

 

[KLOL506]

Honestly, non-staff people who aren't DMC verse experts should just stop talking at this rate and wait for staff to evaluate this thread.

If this is not honored, I will ask thread mods and admins to delete all and any unnecessary comments that derail from the discussion.

Also, friendly reminder that in Staff-Only threads, only the votes of thread mods or admins are valid.

 

[SYPHe5D]

Bruh... just see DT next comment, he talking about visual dipicted. So we cannot have the universe as measuring sticks

He not mean the line literally a line, in fact perceive as line if it mean literally is perceive as 1 dimensional object

I dont know why everyone just read a slice of that thread

you have just summarized what were most people doing in this thread.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Bump, I guess?

 

[KLOL506]

Why are you bumping so much? I thought you wanted to hold off the thread until that other thread passed (Even though I can see from a glance that the other thread doesn't have much to do with the actual arguments at play here regarding qualitative superiority and what-have-you).

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Why are you bumping so much? I thought you wanted to hold off the thread until that other thread passed (Even though I can see from a glance that the other thread doesn't have much to do with the actual arguments at play here regarding qualitative superiority and what-have-you).

I bumped ONCE.

 

[KLOL506]

You bumped quite a bit before that thread was even made.

Either way, it would be preferable if you don't bump right now and wait for that other thread to finish (Even though I really see no reason to), or for some more staff to engage in this thread and vote.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

or for some more staff to engage in this thread and vote.

...Which is exactly why I'm bumping.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

...Which is exactly why I'm bumping.

Who do you want me to ping?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Who do you want me to ping?

Anyone, although I'd like to get opinions from DT or Agnaa and further opinions from Ultima assuming they aren't busy (they almost certainly are, though).

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Anyone, although I'd like to get opinions from DT or Agnaa and further opinions from Ultima assuming they aren't busy (they almost certainly are, though).

Where are the relevant arguments?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I can point out the comments for Tier 1 DMC here, in opposition to OP.
Tony, Gilver and Tanin_iver.

I think someone is going to do a compilation of the arguments for DMC stuff so wait for that one or check these ones

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Where are the relevant arguments?

My relevant arguments are in the OP, and haven't really changed much.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think someone is going to do a compilation of the arguments for DMC stuff so wait for that one or check these ones

This would be very helpful, and since Fuji's arguments haven't really changed, it'd make it easier for the staff to see all the relevant arguments both for and against Tier 1 DMC

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

My relevant arguments are in the OP, and haven't really changed much.

I think someone is going to do a compilation of the arguments for DMC stuff so wait for that one or check these ones

This would be very helpful, and since Fuji's arguments haven't really changed, it'd make it easier for the staff to see all the relevant arguments both for and against Tier 1 DMC

@Antvasima @AKM sama @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Andytrenom @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Just_a_Random_Butler @Agnaa @Shadowbokunohero @Ogurtsow @QrowBarr @Crazylatin77 @Zaratthustra @ElixirBlue @Tllmbrg @Nehz_XZX @Dereck03 @Marvel_Champion_07 @Therefir @JustSomeWeirdo @Theglassman12 @Eficiente @DarkGrath @Moritzva @DemonGodMitchAubin @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @Armorchompy @CrimsonStarFallen @UchihaSlayer96 @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @Lonkitt @LephyrTheRevanchist @Deagonx @FinePoint @Elizio33

 

[CloverDragon03]

Snip

I don't think this would be best to do until the arguments in favor of Tier 1 DMC have been compiled into one place

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Antvasima @AKM sama @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Andytrenom @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Just_a_Random_Butler @Agnaa @Shadowbokunohero @Ogurtsow @QrowBarr @Crazylatin77 @Zaratthustra @ElixirBlue @Tllmbrg @Nehz_XZX @Dereck03 @Marvel_Champion_07 @Therefir @JustSomeWeirdo @Theglassman12 @Eficiente @DarkGrath @Moritzva @DemonGodMitchAubin @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @Armorchompy @CrimsonStarFallen @UchihaSlayer96 @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @Lonkitt @LephyrTheRevanchist @Deagonx @FinePoint @Elizio33

 

[KLOL506]

@Antvasima @AKM sama @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Andytrenom @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Just_a_Random_Butler @Agnaa @Shadowbokunohero @Ogurtsow @QrowBarr @Crazylatin77 @Zaratthustra @ElixirBlue @Tllmbrg @Nehz_XZX @Dereck03 @Marvel_Champion_07 @Therefir @JustSomeWeirdo @Theglassman12 @Eficiente @DarkGrath @Moritzva @DemonGodMitchAubin @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @Armorchompy @CrimsonStarFallen @UchihaSlayer96 @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @Lonkitt @LephyrTheRevanchist @Deagonx @FinePoint @Elizio33

Why tho

Just why

This being a staff-only thread, only thread mods and admins should've come here. Heck, Bambu and DDM are trolling here as a result.

Plus, all the arguments for Tier 1 haven't been compiled.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It was more so intended as a joke but I'll remove it, plus iirc Bambu often said he doesn't want to be bothered with Tier 1 stuff; or was it 1-A and above specifically. But either way, I don't really understand what is going on and we really don't need to ping every single staff member on this site for a verse specific topic. That's just overkill.

 

[KLOL506]

Majority of these staff will not touch Tier 1 shit with a 10-meter-pole.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It was more so intended as a joke but I'll remove it, plus iirc Bambu often said he doesn't want to be bothered with Tier 1 stuff; or was it 1-A and above specifically. But either way, I don't really understand what is going on and we really don't need to ping every single staff member on this site for a verse specific topic. That's just overkill.

Not inclined to speak on Tier 1 in general. My joke was in response to tagging all staff for verse-specific work.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Okay, this has finally been applied, we can get back on track now. Anyways, as the new standards clearly state that being larger than a 2-A structure (even infinitely so) isn't low 1-C, then being infinitely larger than low 2-C definitely isn't low 1-C.

Is there any reason why this logic would not apply to DMC?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Okay, this has finally been applied, we can get back on track now. Anyways, as the new standards clearly state that being larger than a 2-A structure (even infinitely so) isn't low 1-C, then being infinitely larger than low 2-C definitely isn't low 1-C.

Is there any reason why this logic would not apply to DMC?

I. forgot to link the thread that was applied. I have GOT to krill myself.

Also, bump.

 

[Theglassman12]

Well since the standards have changed a bit, I'm fine with the downgrades unless anyone has anything new to offer.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Okay, this has finally been applied, we can get back on track now. Anyways, as the new standards clearly state that being larger than a 2-A structure (even infinitely so) isn't low 1-C, then being infinitely larger than low 2-C definitely isn't low 1-C.

Is there any reason why this logic would not apply to DMC?

I agree with the downgrade FRA.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Thank you both. Do we have enough support to apply the changes now?

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Thank you both. Do we have enough support to apply the changes now?

Three evaluating staff have approved this, so it's technically allowed but not generally recommended.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I'll wait another day and see if more staff or regular users have anything to say.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I suppose a downgrade back to 2-C (is it?) is in order.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Alright, I can just apply the edits later then.

 

[Eseseso]

Just curious, how many universes is their 2-C?