Fu Xiaoli vs Rimuru

[Firephoenixearl]

Stella breaking her arms made me think that

That wasn't peak xiaoli though.

Also the Xiaoli not dying was a jab against the passive fate killing but it might just be a lack of experience.

Stella doesn't have passive fate killing though.

The Edelweiss stuff is nice and all but she isn't Fu Xiaoli and therefore we shouldn't use Edelweiss to fully determine her methods.

It's sth all desperados have though? Why would it not scale?

You are making a lot of assumptions but you don't have much to back you passive killing claims.

I have the fact that she's a desperado, and i have this:

- Thank you ~! - Xiaoli thanked the hostess and turned towards the Edelberg peak. - Well? All my secondary affairs are completed, it's time to say hello to her!
Taking a deep breath, she screamed.
- HAAAAAAAA !!!
She tried to give her voice strength.
So that the person to whom her greeting was intended would immediately feel it.
Her scream literally ripped the atmosphere around her.
The trees rustled loudly, the birds scattered in fright in all directions. The mountain itself seemed to tremble from the declaration of war on Taote Fu Xiaoli.
...
-…!?!?
Meanwhile, at 6,000 meters above sea level. Stella and the others shuddered at Camp Five.
“Whose vile bloodlust just had? Is this Edelweiss-san?

• No, it is she ...
• Ghh ...

That's right, it wasn't Edelweiss.
Stella had already met her lust for blood in that incident at the very top of Edelberg.
The source of this formidable fighting spirit was very different.
If the fighting spirit of Edelweiss was like a very thin, sharp and painful blade.
That unfamiliar fighting spirit was fierce, there was an animal nature in it, which seemed to be ready to swallow absolutely everything.
Stella was unfamiliar with the owner of this frightening bloodlust. But she realized that this stranger was as powerful as Edelweiss.
And now this someone is going to climb to the top right to her!
Realizing this, Stella again felt the fear of imminent death. Just like when she met Diptera or the Puppet King.
The gravitational attraction of fate, as if opening its gigantic jaws, was ready to swallow it entirely.

Xiaoli releasing her bloodlust.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Both actually.


The fate hax itself is something that can be used. Other abilities don't matter when you have something like that up your sleeve. Something that Raphael cannot find out about that "it's NLF for it to kill Rimuru". So as long as the fate exists, she knows it's not fake.


That's kind of useless. As long as Raphael is capable to comprehend stuff, it will work on her too. Because Raphael will see and understand that deciding to fight would mean Rimuru dies. Inescapable death. So unless Raphael wants to kill Rimuru, it won't make any move.

Raphael will not be affected by the desperado effects and I think you're confusing her/it to an actual person's mind. Raphael is basically a skill of Rimuru which are that suddenly gained a personality and basically functions as an AI and she doesn't have an emotion either. It's only objective is anything for the benefit of Rimuru and it's the equivalent of fate-haxing a rock to death by giving it visions and we know how the rock will respond. In this case Fu is like fatehaxing a computer software to death by showing it various scenarios in which Raphael will not bother and she lacks emotion either. Unless Fu has feats affecting something like that. Also you are underestimating how capable Raphael is in the later untranslated volumes (even basing it to the web novel version) where she can analyze on a multiversal scale in an instant and understand any concealed and unconcealed phenomena where she is almost close to Nigh-Omniscient in the later volumes (take note this part is still untranslated but still the same Raphael).

Also based from what I know from Rakudai since I've read it, you need insane willpower to overcome desperado (and be prepared to throw your life) and Rimuru's willpower is extremely absurd by just looking at the profile (I will not bother posting it here since it's way too long and there is a scaling chain of how strong their willpower is. I can post if someone needs it). I still don't see how showing death scenarios to Rimuru will work since he already died and his first death is just him don't care about the stabs of his wounds and him dying just to save his co worker. He's not even afraid of death now that I re-read at the Orc Disaster fight since he was ecstatic to know that he finds joy in fighting knowing he can die so there's that.

 

[KageSakaDark]

I have the fact that she's a desperado, and i have this:

- Thank you ~! - Xiaoli thanked the hostess and turned towards the Edelberg peak. - Well? All my secondary affairs are completed, it's time to say hello to her!
Taking a deep breath, she screamed.
- HAAAAAAAA !!!
She tried to give her voice strength.
So that the person to whom her greeting was intended would immediately feel it.
Her scream literally ripped the atmosphere around her.
The trees rustled loudly, the birds scattered in fright in all directions. The mountain itself seemed to tremble from the declaration of war on Taote Fu Xiaoli.
...
-…!?!?
Meanwhile, at 6,000 meters above sea level. Stella and the others shuddered at Camp Five.
“Whose vile bloodlust just had? Is this Edelweiss-san?

• • No, it is she ...
  • Ghh ...

That's right, it wasn't Edelweiss.
Stella had already met her lust for blood in that incident at the very top of Edelberg.
The source of this formidable fighting spirit was very different.
If the fighting spirit of Edelweiss was like a very thin, sharp and painful blade.
That unfamiliar fighting spirit was fierce, there was an animal nature in it, which seemed to be ready to swallow absolutely everything.
Stella was unfamiliar with the owner of this frightening bloodlust. But she realized that this stranger was as powerful as Edelweiss.
And now this someone is going to climb to the top right to her!
Realizing this, Stella again felt the fear of imminent death. Just like when she met Diptera or the Puppet King.
The gravitational attraction of fate, as if opening its gigantic jaws, was ready to swallow it entirely.

Xiaoli releasing her bloodlust.

When exactly was this? Was it after her defeating the others? If it was at the start of the battle with Stella why was the battle going on for so long?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It's only objective is anything for the benefit of Rimuru and it's the equivalent of fate-haxing a rock to death by giving it visions and we know how the rock will respond.

Not exactly. A rock can't take actions, Raphael can. and if it's only gonna benefit Rimuru it really won't want to act in the presence of Xiaoli. Acting there would do anything BUT benefit Rimuru. And no, she won't be fate haxing Raphael, it's still Rimuru that get's fate haxed.

In this case Fu is like fatehaxing a computer software to death by showing it various scenarios in which Raphael will not bother and she lacks emotion either. Unless Fu has feats affecting something like that.

As i said above, she will be fate haxing Rimuru, not Raphael. And as i also said, unless she wants Rimuru dead, Raphael won't act.

where she can analyze on a multiversal scale in an instant and understand any concealed and unconcealed phenomena

Still not reading the entire history of a fate hax and all the abilities of the people the fate hax has worked on.

she is almost close to Nigh-Omniscient in the later volumes

Useless without context. Nigh-omniscience can mean anything.

even basing it to the web novel version

What....? Why would you base it to the web novel version? This is the light novel.

you need insane willpower to overcome desperado (and be prepared to throw your life)

You need insane willpower to become a desperado. You just need to be prepared to throw away your life (for what is practically no reason in this case) to deal with desperado passives.

Rimuru's willpower is extremely absurd by just looking at the profile

Quite literally nothing on his willpower is related to his own death.

I still don't see how showing death scenarios to Rimuru will work since he already died and his first death is just him don't care about the stabs of his wounds and him dying just to save his co worker.

Yes, you can die to save a co-worker, but it's harder to die when you got quite literally nothing to gain from it. You can throw your own life away to protect someone, but would you throw your own life away for nothing?

He's not even afraid of death now that I re-read at the Orc Disaster fight since he was ecstatic to know that he finds joy in fighting knowing he can die so there's that.

I answered above knowing that you "could" die, is not the same as knowing that you "will" die.

When exactly was this? Was it after her defeating the others?

Yes.

If it was at the start of the battle with Stella why was the battle going on for so long?

Cus she didn't want to kill stella. So she was holding back on the kill, similar to what Edel did.

 

[Ionliosite]

Except the fact that Rimuru is incredibly practical (vs Orc Lord) and always takes his abilities and capabilities into account during a fight, even in against opponent stronger than him (Vs Milim).

This is plainly a lie, Rimuru is everything but able to keep up with his own powers, Raphael constantly needs to remind him of them and give him uses for a reason.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

This is plainly a lie, Rimuru is everything but able to keep up with his own powers, Raphael constantly needs to remind him of them and give him uses for a reason.

Do you always have to make these bold claims that I’m a lying or straw manning when I’m actually not?

When I said Rimuru I meant Rimuru & Raphael, also, that’s no, that’s not a lie. The instances I mentioned in particular is where Rimuru actively utilized GS in a fight to help him, even when unexperienced (orc lord), and overpowered (milim).

 

[Ionliosite]

Do you always have to make these bold claims that I’m a lying or straw manning when I’m actually not?

I mean, you ARE lying, since that is blatantly false. Rimuru needs Raphael for this kind of stuff, so claiming that he's a master at it is simply wrong.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

When I said Rimuru I meant Rimuru & Raphael, also, that’s no, that’s not a lie. The instances I mentioned in particular is where Rimuru actively utilized GS in a fight to help him, even when unexperienced (orc lord), and overpowered (milim).

????????????????

I never said he was a master, now you’re shoving words in my mouth.

 

[Ionliosite]

Uh, I think you quoted the wrong post, since that's your own, unless you're confused over your own lies, which would make more sense.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

You said I’m lying because he needs Raphael, when I outright said when I meant Rimuru I meant him & Raphael, and listed instances where they work together, then you say I’m lying because Rimuru needs Raphael, something I literally agreed with and quoted with him & Raphael.

I’m not sure what random hate boner you have for me is, but I’d appreciate you’d drop it, considering you’re arguing the same thing I am, just saying I’m lying for some random reasons when I have you examples. If anything you saying I said he was a master at it is a lie, I just said he was incredibly practical.

 

[Ionliosite]

You said I’m lying because he needs Raphael, when I outright said when I meant Rimuru I meant him & Raphael, and listed instances where they work together, then you say I’m lying because I’m Rimuru needs Raphael, something I literally agreed with and quoted with him & Raphael.

Yeah, you literally admitted you were lying, so I don't see what's the fuss you're trying to make.

I’m not sure what random hate boner you have for me is, but I’d appreciate you’d drop it,

Not sure what this even means or how it is relevant to the match.

If anything you saying I said he was a master at it is a lie, I just said he was incredibly practical.

True, and now I return you the favour of admitting your lies by saying I did in fact misquoted you (not that what you actually said was true either).

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yeah, you literally admitted you were lying, so I don't see what's the fuss you're trying to make.

Lying over what? We’re arguing the same thing.

Not sure what this even means or how it is relevant to the match.

Fairly certain you can read, you seem to have this underlying hostility towards me from what I noticed. You can just dm me over discord (which you know, I’ve DM’d you), and just talk this out, instead of these incessant jabs on a thread.

True, and now I return you the favour of admitting your lies by saying I did in fact misquoted you (not that what you actually said was true either).

Not exactly sure what I’m lying on, and I’m not exactly sure how what I said isn’t true either. Do you think I’m lying or is the possibility of you just disagreeing slip past and I have to be omitting something to glisten my argument?

 

[Ionliosite]

Lying over what? We’re arguing the same thing.

I'll go over this at the bottom.

Fairly certain you can read, you seem to have this underlying hostility towards me from what I noticed. You can just dm me over discord (which you know, I’ve DM’d you), and just talk this out, instead of these incessant jabs on a thread.

First, I don't know what "underlying hostility" you talk about, since I treat you the same way that I treat everyone else. Second, you didn't answer how this is relevant to the thread. And third, what jab are you even talking about?

Not exactly sure what I’m lying on, and I’m not exactly sure how what I said isn’t true either. Do you think I’m lying or is the possibility of you just disagreeing slip past and I have to be omitting something to glisten my argument?

Rimuru being incredibly practical and skilled with his abilities, which is plain wrong and multiple scenes across the novel show otherwise. The fact you later correct it an accurate version of what actually happens (ie. that Rimuru needs Rapahel's help for it) doesn't change the fact your original statement is a lie.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

First, I don't know what "underlying hostility" you talk about, since I treat you the same way that I treat everyone else. Second, you didn't answer how this is relevant to the thread. And third, what jab are you even talking about?

So you don’t remember rewriting the situation on the Deva Downgrade and saying that I proposed it, when Yvel did? Or lying saying I was a “yes-man” when I had my own reasons for disagreeing, and was literally one of 2 people to disagree? It’s not relevant to the thread, you just seem to like throwing jabs at me for some reason, and in this case, it’s that I’m lying.

Rimuru being incredibly practical and skilled with his abilities, which is plain wrong and multiple scenes across the novel show otherwise. The fact you later correct it an accurate version of what actually happens (ie. that Rimuru needs Rapahel's help for it) doesn't change the fact your original statement is a lie.

Grice’s razor, attack what I meant, not what I said. And I literally told you what I meant. It isn’t a lie, it’s literally me clarifying since you’re so ready to strike me down for being deceitful.

 

[Ionliosite]

So you don’t remember rewriting the situation on the Deva Downgrade and saying that I proposed it, when Yvel did? Or lying saying I was a “yes-man” when I had my own reasons for disagreeing, and was literally one of 2 people to disagree? It’s not relevant to the thread, you just seem to like throwing jabs at me for some reason, and in this case, it’s that I’m lying.

First, I never direct any of that at you, I was talking about the enterity of that SMT server - "you" was in plural in all those uses. Second, if you admit it's not relevant, why do you keep pushing for derailment?

Grice’s razor, attack what I meant, not what I said. And I literally told you what I meant. It isn’t a lie, it’s literally me clarifying since you’re so ready to strike me down for being deceitful.

Yeah, you told me what you meant, AFTER I corrected you, instead of stating it from the start, hence me saying that you only admitted you were lying after you had done it. I'm ready to strike you down for being deceitful since you've clearly shown that you are, and this entire argument is proof of it.

 

[Rikimarox2]

What the **** happened here

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Pain

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I’d give my rebuttal but this would go on in circles, so whatever, I lied I guess? Rimuru & Raphael work in tandem with each other.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So we can continue to the match arguments then.

 

[Elizhaa]

I do agree. People should calm down or cool off. There is no need for anything that could be seen as a character attack.; it is counterproductive and this thread just deals with fiction, not real life. Like one said, attack the arguments made, not the person's character.

I will try to reply on Saturday regarding the fights' argument after I have finished everything important for this week.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Alright, back to this, what was the current dispute?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Read above.

 

[Ionliosite]

If you're asking for votes, then mine is for Rimuru. Xiaoli incaps him the second the battle starts, Raphael takes over his body, and using the info he automatically gets of her powers, he just finishes her with Melt Slash since she won't be able to adapt to that.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

If you're asking for votes, then mine is for Rimuru. Xiaoli incaps him the second the battle starts, Raphael takes over his body, and using the info he automatically gets of her powers, he just finishes her with Melt Slash since she won't be able to adapt to that.

Yeah, I agree with that too.

 

[Mister6ame6]

I still keep my vote for Rimuru

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Not exactly. A rock can't take actions, Raphael can. and if it's only gonna benefit Rimuru it really won't want to act in the presence of Xiaoli. Acting there would do anything BUT benefit Rimuru.

Still wondering on this btw.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Can you explain?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

No one has posted proof that Raphael will see the history of what desperado fate hax has been able to kill before to know whether it would or wouldn't work on Rimuru.

And if it can't deduce this ^^^^. It won't act in the presence of xiaoli cus that would not benefit Rimuru.

 

[Elizhaa]

If you're asking for votes, then mine is for Rimuru. Xiaoli incaps him the second the battle starts, Raphael takes over his body, and using the info he automatically gets of her powers, he just finishes her with Melt Slash since she won't be able to adapt to that.

I can agree with this view so voting FRA.

No one has posted proof that Raphael will see the history of what desperado fate hax has been able to kill before to know whether it would or wouldn't work on Rimuru.

And if it can't deduce this ^^^^. It won't act in the presence of xiaoli cus that would not benefit Rimuru.

One, Rimuru doesn't care about his death; the case has been a thing since the ending of his first key as shown where he is willing to take an entire army and willing to do as much as possible to defeat them. Rimuru's wish in battle is a victory no matter what so Raphael should follow Rimuru's wishes; Raphael kind of did something similar in its first appearance was it complete RImuru's wish of reviving Shion when Rimuru was out of commission.

Raphael can see the future; if it sees something wrong with its prediction of the future then it will change its focus. There is a fight with Veldora where it can understand Veldora change its battle prediction from Veldora's Ultimate Skill, in a later volume but in same (key). Raphael should disregard the prediction and try to fight according to Rimuru's wishes, in the end.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

One, Rimuru doesn't care about his death; the case has been a thing since the ending of his first key as shown where he is willing to take an entire army and willing to do as much as possible to defeat them.

Yeah but death is not sth he can avoid here. Winning is not a possibility. I've debunked this before, there being a chance you'll die vs knowing you will die are very different things.

Rimuru's wish in battle is a victory no matter what so Raphael should follow Rimuru's wishes; Raphael kind of did something similar in its first appearance was it complete RImuru's wish of reviving Shion when Rimuru was out of commission.

It will do things to benefit rimuru, killing rimuru isn't a benefit.

Raphael can see the future; if it sees something wrong with its prediction of the future then it will change its focus.

There is nothing wrong with the prediction, xiaoli doesn't exist in the prediction at all.

There is a fight with Veldora where it can understand Veldora change its battle prediction from Veldora's Ultimate Skill, in a later volume but in same (key). Raphael should disregard the prediction and try to fight according to Rimuru's wishes, in the end.

Prediction doesn't exist in this case.

 

[Ionliosite]

No one has posted proof that Raphael will see the history of what desperado fate hax has been able to kill before to know whether it would or wouldn't work on Rimuru.

He doesn't need to, he just needs to take over the body, since he won't able to be affected by the aura because Raphael is literally a concept without any actual mind to affect.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He doesn't need to, he just needs to take over the body, since he won't able to be affected by the aura because Raphael is literally a concept without any actual mind to affect.

Rimuru will be affected though. And Raphael will not want to do sth that will kill Rimuru.

 

[Ionliosite]

... I mean, Rapahel was the same dude who exposed Rimuru to EE without knowing if he would actually survive simply because he wanted to get that power, so I wouldn't exactly call him protective of Rimuru's life.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I mean, Rapahel was the same dude who exposed Rimuru to EE without knowing if he would actually survive simply because he wanted to get that power

What power?

Besides, there was sth to gain in the example you mentioned from the sounds of it, there were stakes. There would be nothing to gain here, just raw certain death.

 

[Ionliosite]

What power?

EE. He wanted to have the EE, so he used Rimuru to tank it and gain the power, despite later being made clear that he had no idea Rimuru would actually survive it.

Besides, there was sth to gain in the example you mentioned from the sounds of it, there were stakes. There would be nothing to gain here, just raw certain death.

Because apparently fighting an anti-monster killer who had already been in the verge of killing him before isn't having your life at risk.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Besides, there was sth to gain in the example you mentioned from the sounds of it, there were stakes. There would be nothing to gain here, just raw certain death.

Again, Rimuru has already died before, he has no reason to fear it. In fact, as he died (as a human), he was more concerned about his computer being cleared than his death.

 

[Zencha9]

he was more concerned about his computer being cleared than his death

classic

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Because apparently fighting an anti-monster killer who had already been in the verge of killing him before isn't having your life at risk.

I never said risk though. I've said several times "risk" and "certain death" are different.

 

[Ionliosite]

They are different, yes. Doesn't matter since Xiaoli literally cannot affect Rapahel.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

They are different, yes. Doesn't matter since Xiaoli literally cannot affect Rapahel.

As i said, it's Rimuru that will get affected. Raphael will just be using the info analysis to know that Rimuru will die if he challenges Xiaoli.

Fun fact, Raphael will know the drill due to his own abilities.