Fu Xiaoli vs Rimuru

[Makenai]

You just said incap GG and thats it, how the fate hax incap Rimuru? By continuously showing his death? Rimuru can comeback from information which by nature are superior to concepts let alone fates, and you tell me its not NLF to fate hax capable of showing it? And how is just showing death incapitation? It's impossible logically speaking. Show me just show me don't avoid question. Is there any proof of them showing death to people they cant kill?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

And how is just showing death incapitation? It's impossible logically speaking.

Showing death is impossible logically speaking? What?

 

[Makenai]

Also how it is Fu Xiaoli copies Rimuru's ability when Rimuru have Unconventional Resistance and not to mention to even Manipulation skill, you need to able manipulate information which is again by nature are superior to concepts.

 

[Makenai]

Showing death is impossible logically speaking? What?

I mean how is showing death is incapitation?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I mean how is showing death is incapitation?

Because you don't want to fight a battle you know for a fact you will die in. It's how people function.

Rimuru have Unconventional Resistance

Irrelevant to the topic.

and not to mention to even Manipulation skill, you need to able manipulate information

Pointless information.

which is again by nature are superior to concepts.

Not really, it is in no way more abstract than fate or concepts.

 

[Elizhaa]

How does Fatehax incapacitate Rimuru and what stops Rimuru from gaining resistance?

Rimuru has a similar reactive evolution feat of getting resistance to superior hax in a quick manner like regarding getting resistance to Hinata's law manipulation. Rrimuru can also get resistance while being under the effect of an ability as shown in his fight against Gazel.

I forgot...Rimuru should resist FateHax like Shion and other abilities from having an Ultimate Skill; I will make a thread on the topic before the end of the year when I am more free time.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I forgot...Rimuru should resist FateHax like Shion and other abilities from having an Ultimate Skill; I will make a thread on the topic before the end of the year when I am more free time.

Xiaoli's fate hax is significantly more potent actually. Cus desperados can affect other desperados.

 

[Elizhaa]

Xiaoli's fate hax is significantly more potent actually. Cus desperados can affect other desperados.

I am saying Rimuru could probably get resistance to Xiali's fate hax, giving the surrounding contexts from similar feats, regarding his reactive evolution.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Nahh, considering this fate hax completely transcends the system he works on to begin with.

 

[Makenai]

Because you don't want to fight a battle you know for a fact you will die in. It's how people function.

Irrelevant to the topic.

Pointless information.

Not really, it is in no way more abstract than fate or concepts.

What? Rimuru knows Fu cannot kill him via Raphael and he knows it just illusion. WTF are you saying, do you even know Rimuru's character? If he is afraid then he will Summon Veldora, in fact thats what he did everytime he fought people stronger than him.

WTF so this is what you called incap? Showing people their death? NO, showi g Rimuru's his death wont stop him from killing you. Not to mention there's Raphael, info analysis etc.

The **** are you saying? Do you even know Tensura Lore at all? Information particles makes up Everything in existence including concepts and you're saying its not more abstract than concepts? LOL You don't even read Tensura, this is proof that everything you say about Tensura is not credible at all.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What? Rimuru knows Fu cannot kill him via Raphael and he knows it just illusion.

Proof that raphael has ever showed stuff like that?

WTF are you saying, do you even know Rimuru's character? If he is afraid then he will Summon Veldora, in fact thats what he did everytime he fought people stronger than him.

Nope, that would be challenging a desperado, and challenging a desperado ain't your best bet.

WTF so this is what you called incap? Showing people their death? NO, showi g Rimuru's his death wont stop him from killing you. Not to mention there's Raphael, info analysis etc.

This ain't even an argument tbh, this feels more like an opinion.

The **** are you saying? Do you even know Tensura Lore at all? Information particles makes up Everything in existence including concepts and you're saying its not more abstract than concepts? LOL You don't even read Tensura, this is proof that everything you say about Tensura is not credible at all.

Making up something doesn't make it more abstract. It's like saying molecules are more abstract than physical bodies. Which is a dumb assessment for reasons i don't need to point out.

 

[Makenai]

Proof that raphael has ever showed stuff like that?

Nope, that would be challenging a desperado, and challenging a desperado ain't your best bet.


This ain't even an argument tbh, this feels more like an opinion.

Making up something doesn't make it more abstract. It's like saying molecules are more abstract than physical bodies. Which is a dumb assessment for reasons i don't need to point out.

Gyazo

gyazo.com

What with this one sided argument, you're saying Desperado can do this and that and when people telling you what Rimuru capable of your're denying it, i'm feeling dumb for arguing with you.

You're denying Rimuru's Character and which he would Summon veldora.

You're denying the fact that information is more superior than concepts in nature.

And you saying Fu can Copies Rimuru ability which need to manipulate Information particles which is superior to concepts to even touch it. And you saying Rimuru cant get resistance because Fu operates in higher system'? Acausality type 4 is transcends system'? This is very dumb

 

[Ionliosite]

You're denying the fact that information is more superior than concepts in nature.

That's false. Concepts and information are both equally abstract. Just because one makes up the other doesn't make more abstract, that's like saying meat is more abstract than a meatball.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Well I'm back and reading the past arguments I would like to note that Raphael can just take over Rimuru's body and do all the work better for him and also showing Rimuru how he would do die would not work since Raphael will easily point that out for him. Raphael has analyzed and assess everything and her calculation is superior than a supercomputer and even those that hides information from him she can hack and analyze it like the Green Rebellion. She can even manipulate information particles from which it consist of everything including abstract and concepts in the Tensura world. Showing Raphael's death would not work either due to her nature and existence.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What with this one sided argument, you're saying Desperado can do this and that and when people telling you what Rimuru capable of your're denying it, i'm feeling dumb for arguing with you.

You're denying Rimuru's Character and which he would Summon veldora.

Cus you ain't giving any proof for it. I ain't gonna just take your word for it.

You're denying the fact that information is more superior than concepts in nature.

And you saying Fu can Copies Rimuru ability which need to manipulate Information particles which is superior to concepts to even touch it.

Repetitive argument, was debunked by ion and yours truly, and a generally wrong take on what "make up something" means.

nd you saying Rimuru cant get resistance because Fu operates in higher system'? Acausality type 4 is transcends system'? This is very dumb

I'd like to see the argument for this. To repeat what i said before, most of your stuff sound less like an argument and more like an opinion.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

and also showing Rimuru how he would do die would not work since Raphael will easily point that out for him.

Can he though? Cus as i said this is quite literally telling rimuru "it has never worked on someone with your regen level before". So....

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Yes. This is what Raphael is just for you to know who she/it is:

(The Conceptual Intelligence was born from a mutated Unique Skill, Great Sage desired to evolve for the sake of its master Rimuru. After a seemingly endless amount of attempts, it finally integrated the Unique Skill Degenerate into the procedure by sacrificing, causing it to disappear. The Harvest Festival made this desire into an actual possibility. Thus Great Sage evolved into Raphael. In the depths of its emotionless mind, was an ego tucked into a corner. Doubting her own existence, a small glimmer of thought was subtly born, unbeknownst to Raphael.)

Basically it's a conceptual AI that reside in Rimuru's consciousness and you can technically call it another part of Rimuru's personality. Her analysis is almost godlike and can predict any events that's happening even outside of Rimuru's perspectives through sheer calculations and assessment. She/it also tends to do things behinds Rimuru's back even without his consent for his masters(Rimuru) benefits like she intentionally not block Melt Slash (an attack that destroy the physical body, soul and information particles completely) with Absolute Defense (because she knows Rimuru would regen from that attack and not a threat to him) so she can analyze it and copy it so Rimuru can use it, although Rimuru wants to block it much to his annoyance for Raphael. It's a separate entity from him

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's cool and all but i never asked for any of that.

In the aspect that i asked for proof you brought me a very basic analysis (it has regen neg), basically analyzing the very mechanics way an ability works.

That is in no way comparable to "will tell rimuru that desperado hax has never killed anyone with high godly before".

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

What analysis feat equivalent do you want tho? Since there are a lot of analysis feat in the story that I can count. Even when Raphael was only Great Sage, he already pointed out that any mind attacks like from Ramiris mental strike which GS already pointed out to be useless to him to which Rimuru doesn't have any idea and physical attacks like Ifrit's hellflare to which Rimuru thought he would die from that attack but GS point out it's useless to him much to Rim's embarrassment. Of course there's more like analyzing the infinite prison from Veldora which the prison contains infinite number of spatial complex dimension and when it evolved to Raphael, it was able to be analyze and assess in an instant.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Also let's give the benefit of the doubt and say Rimuru's under the effect of desperado. Raphael would just switch consciousness with Rimuru, possess his body and do all the work but like 300% better compare to what Rimuru does since she can multitask everything and anything in an instant from all of the collection of his abilities like during the fight in the Orc Disaster.

Which the desperado effects on Raphael is useless since she knows it's all fake and illusions (and also need feats of it affecting a conceptual AI) and nothing can kill Rimuru from Fu's abilities

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Except they're not all fake, analysis will tell her that this is the end they signed up for when they tried to fight xiaoli.

And wdym what feat do I want? I literally said that above "it has never done this before". Rahael to say that regarding an ability, cuz it's 1 thing to analyse the mechanics of the ability and it's another to find out what it has worked on. The mechanics of desperado don't imply nlf, if anything they deny it. We just say no to godly regens cuz they're too potent to be bypassed that easily.

However the basis of nlf is "never done this before" so can Raphael analyse what an ability has worked on before?

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Raphael can analyze any phenomena even down from its roots. Like knowing what the root cause of the time loop and how it works during volume 11 and she is even aware of something like time travel too which is something that is unbelievable during that volume to the verse and she knows it by only analyzing the area, Chronoa and the space within the consciousness of it from its memory. Raphael also analyzed the cause of events during volume 9 and pinpointed that it's due to Masayuki's fatehax ability in an instant.

Also this still is a thing:

Also let's give the benefit of the doubt and say Rimuru's under the effect of desperado. Raphael would just switch consciousness with Rimuru, possess his body and do all the work but like 300% better compare to what Rimuru does since she can multitask everything and anything in an instant from all of the collection of his abilities like during the fight in the Orc Disaster.

Which the desperado effects on Raphael is useless since she knows it's all fake and illusions (and also need feats of it affecting a conceptual AI) and nothing can kill Rimuru from Fu's abilities

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Raphael can analyze any phenomena even down from its roots. Like knowing what the root cause of the time loop and how it works during volume 11 and she is even aware of something like time travel too which is something that is unbelievable during that volume to the verse and she knows it by only analyzing the area, Chronoa and the space within the consciousness of it from its memory. Raphael also analyzed the cause of events during volume 9 and pinpointed that it's due to Masayuki's fatehax ability in an instant.

That if used on desperado will just tell Rimuru "That is your fate. If you challenge a desperado you willingly sign up for your own death. Should you try to challenge her you will die". Not "it has never worked on something with your regen".

Which the desperado effects on Raphael is useless since she knows it's all fake and illusions

They are not fake dude. They're true, it's the fate of death.

(and also need feats of it affecting a conceptual AI)

Not really, no. If she switches consciousness she's just a consciousness. Not to mention it's not even affecting her.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

That if used on desperado will just tell Rimuru "That is your fate. If you challenge a desperado you willingly sign up for your own death. Should you try to challenge her you will die". Not "it has never worked on something with your regen".


They are not fake dude. They're true, it's the fate of death.


Not really, no. If she switches consciousness she's just a consciousness. Not to mention it's not even affecting her.

1. Raphael is the one doing the analyzing and it won't be affected by that even if we say that Rimuru is the one affected but not Raphael. Let's say that Rimuru is scared to fight (although this is extremely unlikely and almost impossible due to how absurd his willpower is if you checked it's reasoning in his profile), Raphael will be annoyed and just take over the body and be done with it.

2. What I mean is because there is nothing Fu can do to kill Rimuru (no abilities that will lead Rimuru's death) that's why I said it is fake and the fate of death will not be achieved

3. Uhm no, Raphael is not only just a consciousness, she's basically there with Rimuru since it exist deep within his soul and consciousness and she basically manage everything from the dataspace of Rimuru. She even take over when Rimuru apparently "died" (or sleep based on your interpretation on volume 11) and used his body for millennia. She even take over Rimuru during the Harvest festival evolution which required him to sleep and do necessary things.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Recommenting, lost notifications.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Raphael is the one doing the analyzing and it won't be affected by that even if we say that Rimuru is the one affected but not Raphael

Both actually.

What I mean is because there is nothing Fu can do to kill Rimuru (no abilities that will lead Rimuru's death) that's why I said it is fake and the fate of death will not be achieved

The fate hax itself is something that can be used. Other abilities don't matter when you have something like that up your sleeve. Something that Raphael cannot find out about that "it's NLF for it to kill Rimuru". So as long as the fate exists, she knows it's not fake.

Uhm no, Raphael is not only just a consciousness, she's basically there with Rimuru since it exist deep within his soul and consciousness and she basically manage everything from the dataspace of Rimuru. She even take over when Rimuru apparently "died" (or sleep based on your interpretation on volume 11) and used his body for millennia. She even take over Rimuru during the Harvest festival evolution which required him to sleep and do necessary things.

That's kind of useless. As long as Raphael is capable to comprehend stuff, it will work on her too. Because Raphael will see and understand that deciding to fight would mean Rimuru dies. Inescapable death. So unless Raphael wants to kill Rimuru, it won't make any move.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Looking back on this, why exactly should this matter to Rimuru? The “fate of death”? Because realistically, how can she kill him? Every ability she has he resists, and the things he doesn’t, High-Godly Regeneration. Not to mention his RE, so it’s very unlikely that if any attack doesn’t kill or incap on the first try, it’ll just get adapted to. We’ve already gone over his analysis is passive, so should he sense “oh you’re gonna die”, why exactly should this scare someone who’s died before?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The “fate of death”? Because realistically, how can she kill him? Every ability she has he resists,

Not fate hax which is the big issue.

the things he doesn’t, High-Godly Regeneration.

That would require him to realize that high godly regen would be a safe bet. For all he, along with Raphael know, it will materialize the moment he challenges Xiaoli. And raphael cannot tell him "it has never done so before" cus it can't (or at least none of the feats brought up to this point don't do that).

Not to mention his RE, so it’s very unlikely that if any attack doesn’t kill or incap on the first try,

RE to fate hax that doesn't even work on the same causality rules? Yeah sure, good luck. Also you don't resist the incap, the incap is just "rimuru willingly decides not to fight cus it's certain death".

We’ve already gone over his analysis is passive, so should he sense “oh you’re gonna die”, why exactly should this scare someone who’s died before?

Dying before doesn't mean "yeah whatever, i know i will die and never be able to come back and got nothing to win but i can stay safe if i don't challenge her, but i will still fight cus why the f not? That's a sound idea". If anything having died before makes you more wary of death.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Not fate hax which is the big issue.

What exactly stops from adapting to that?

That would require him to realize that high godly regen would be a safe bet. For all he, along with Raphael know, it will materialize the moment he challenges Xiaoli. And raphael cannot tell him "it has never done so before" cus it can't (or at least none of the feats brought up to this point don't do that).

Except the fact that Rimuru is incredibly practical (vs Orc Lord) and always takes his abilities and capabilities into account during a fight, even in against opponent stronger than him (Vs Milim). Saying “you will die”, while simultaneously learning all of her abilities due to passive analysis kinda negates that fact.

RE to fate hax that doesn't even work on the same causality rules? Yeah sure, good luck. Also you don't resist the incap, the incap is just "rimuru willingly decides not to fight cus it's certain death".

Death from what though? What kills him? Once he analyzes her abilities and realizes there’s... nothing that can kill him, much less even really touch him (Absolute Defense), why exactly would he be scared? It’s not like Rimuru cannot just shut down his mind with Raphael and become mindless and only fight like a robot with the best choice of action (vs Orc Lord), so I’m doubting it’s effectiveness.

Dying before doesn't mean "yeah whatever, i know i will die and never be able to come back and got nothing to win but i can stay safe if i don't challenge her, but i will still fight cus why the f not? That's a sound idea". If anything having died before makes you more wary of death.

Not necessarily, since Rimuru has fought people who actually do have the potential to kill him (vs Milim), and didn’t falter.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What exactly stops from adapting to that?

I explained below. It completely transcends his causality system. RE ain't stopping that.

Saying “you will die”, while simultaneously learning all of her abilities due to passive analysis kinda negates that fact.

Negates what fact? That raphael cannot analyze deep enough to tell Rimuru "she cannot kill you with the fate hax cus it has never done so before"? Or the fact that Raphael's analysis quite literally plays against Rimuru cus it'll tell him "that is your fate of death which will materialize if you challenge xiaoli"?

Death from what though?

Fate dude. Materialization of Rimuru's fate of death. How hard is it to understand?

It’s not like Rimuru cannot just shut down his mind with Raphael and become mindless and only fight like a robot with the best choice of action (vs Orc Lord), so I’m doubting it’s effectiveness.

First of all, you can't act with a turned off mind, unless you mean let Raphael take over. Secondly, yes the "If i try and challenge her is an instant death for me, so i will just pull off this incredible strat and turn off my brain so that i actually challenge her and die" absolutely galaxy brain strat right there. Smh these arguments.

Not necessarily, since Rimuru has fought people who actually do have the potential to kill him (vs Milim), and didn’t falter.

Having the potential to kill him is far from being the same. One is "i could die", the other is "i will die".

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Negates what fact? That raphael cannot analyze deep enough to tell Rimuru "she cannot kill you with the fate hax cus it has never done so before"? Or the fact that Raphael's analysis quite literally plays against Rimuru cus it'll tell him "that is your fate of death which will materialize if you challenge xiaoli"?

Why can’t he analyze deep enough? Can you provide scans of this? Because from her profile, she has no resistance to it, and Rimuru has analyzed fate hax before.

Fate dude. Materialization of Rimuru's fate of death. How hard is it to understand?

Fate of death, but how is he fated to die? What exactly is she doing that’s going to force him into death? Even ignoring him not being able to deal with fate manipulation, he has two layers of death manipulation resistance.

First of all, you can't act with a turned off mind, unless you mean let Raphael take over. Secondly, yes the "If i try and challenge her is an instant death for me, so i will just pull off this incredible strat and turn off my brain so that i actually challenge her and die" absolutely galaxy brain strat right there. Smh these arguments.

What the hell did you think I meant? Of course I meant Raphael turning his brain off and fighting. Again, chalking into account his death resistance, what kills him?

Having the potential to kill him is far from being the same. One is "i could die", the other is "i will die".

Fair enough.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Why can’t he analyze deep enough? Can you provide scans of this? Because from her profile, she has no resistance to it, and Rimuru has analyzed fate hax before.

Yes but none of the given scans of her analysis ever amount to "X ability has never done this before so it is unlikely it can". Which is what it would need to find out.

Fate of death, but how is he fated to die? What exactly is she doing that’s going to force him into death?

His own imagination of death. He will see himself dying the way he imagines death. Then that materializes. Simple as that.

Even ignoring him not being able to deal with fate manipulation, he has two layers of death manipulation resistance.

Ok, but who asked?

What the hell did you think I meant? Of course I meant Raphael turning his brain off and fighting.

I answered that above. Raphael will also have similar issues. Unless she wants to kill Rimuru she won't do anything. And as i said "imma turn off my brain" is a galaxy brain strat.

Again, chalking into account his death resistance, what kills him?

Same as above. Who asked about death hax resistance? Who ever even mentioned death hax here?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yes but none of the given scans of her analysis ever amount to "X ability has never done this before so it is unlikely it can". Which is what it would need to find out.

Um, can you rephrase?

I answered that above. Raphael will also have similar issues. Unless she wants to kill Rimuru she won't do anything. And as i said "imma turn off my brain" is a galaxy brain strat.

Considering Raphael straight up lied to Rimuru and make him take an EE knowing she could counter, yeah, she would.

As for the death hax, is this whole thing not fate-induced death hax? He resists death hax, so how can be fated to die if he resists death?

 

[KageSakaDark]

Sorry about my absence, had a lot on my plate at work.

I am going to ask one more question about Xiaoli. Has she ever killed anyone in her featured fights?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

And wdym what feat do I want? I literally said that above "it has never done this before". Rahael to say that regarding an ability, cuz it's 1 thing to analyse the mechanics of the ability and it's another to find out what it has worked on. The mechanics of desperado don't imply nlf, if anything they deny it. We just say no to godly regens cuz they're too potent to be bypassed that easily.

However the basis of nlf is "never done this before" so can Raphael analyse what an ability has worked on before?

You wanted a rephrasing, here's an explanation.

Considering Raphael straight up lied to Rimuru and make him take an EE knowing she could counter, yeah, she would.

Yes "knowing she could counter". Raphael doesn't know that Rimuru can counter the fate hax.

As for the death hax, is this whole thing not fate-induced death hax? He resists death hax, so how can be fated to die if he resists death?

Fate induced death is not death hax though. It is fate induced death. You need fate resistance to deal with this, not death hax resistance.

Has she ever killed anyone in her featured fights?

I mean...does it honestly matter?

She appeared in 3 fights. In 2 of them (which was technically 1 fight but eh), she spared her opponents (2 random fodder). In the other fight, against Stella, she lost.
But "sparing your opponent" gets taken care of by SBA, so it's meaningless.

 

[KageSakaDark]

Yeah. "Sparred them." She won by incap and honestly it might tell us about how she fights. She maybe let them attack first so she can copy and then went for an incap because shes can get away with it without killing them.

The final fight with Stella is prolonged, she probably could of killed her quite early on if we use the logic your using now but she held back until midway. Stella won because she had superior ap (which shouldn't matter at all) and became a desperado nearing the end. Xiaoli didn't die though.

Now, from the mentality that she has shown in her fights would she go for a kill or an incap? Even with SBA, she wouldn't go for a kill straight away.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah. "Sparred them." She won by incap and honestly it might tell us about how she fights.

Nah she didn't win by fate incap. She just clapped on them in other ways. Honestly that whole fight (against Kiba and Lambert) was just them feeding to Xiaoli's martial arts skill.

She maybe let them attack first so she can copy and then went for an incap because shes can get away with it without killing them.

They tried to fight her in CQC and she just clapped them. That's about as simple as i can put it.

The final fight with Stella is prolonged, she probably could of killed her quite early on if we use the logic your using now but she held back until midway.

She could have, but she didn't want to. Then stella became a desperado and won.

Stella won because she had superior ap (which shouldn't matter at all) and became a desperado nearing the end. Xiaoli didn't die though.

Actually Xiaoli had superior AP (with abilities and stuff) until Stella became a desperado. Xiaoli was superior in everything before Stella's awakening. What does Xiaoli remaining alive got to do with anything though?

 

[Mister6ame6]

Rimuru FRA

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Rimuru FRA

LMAO

 

[KageSakaDark]

Forgive me for the misunderstanding, Stella breaking her arms made me think that. Also the Xiaoli not dying was a jab against the passive fate killing but it might just be a lack of experience.

Let me be blunt Earl. You need an example of her using Desperado Hax atleast kill someone, hell more battles overall would help greatly. The Edelweiss stuff is nice and all but she isn't Fu Xiaoli and therefore we shouldn't use Edelweiss to fully determine Xiaoli's methods. You are making a lot of assumptions but you don't have much to back your claims of her passively fate killing.