Frisk vs Madotsuki

[Aki_No_Mangetsu]

Been playing Yume Nikki lately...that's all the reason I need to do this.

Anyways rules both at 7-C (meaning no waking up for madotsuki)

speed =

Frisk has all equipment

Madotsuki has all effect's

Fight takes place in a dream version of the underground

 

[Numbersguy]

You can't restrict SAVE AND LOAD... that is how Frisk's powers work. You restrict SAVE AND LOAD, you turn Frisk into an ordinary kid. You can lock Frisk into 7-C, but you can't restrict SAVE AND LOAD.

Going by round 2. I vote for Frisk because he simply just won't die... he will respawn over and over, you can't permakill him and since Mado can't "wake up", she is boned because that is the only thing that can kill Frisk.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

A few issues with this matchup.

1. "Aborted Genocide Route" isn't really a tier for Frisk. I assume you mean 7-C in this case?

2. Restricting abilities isn't allowed, outside of abilities with higher AP than the character's base AP. So you can restrict Madotsuki's Low 2-C, but not her Type 9 or Frisk's SAVE & LOAD

As for my opinions on the matchup...

A) Pure fight Scenario, aka no SAVE & LOAD or Type 9: Madotsuki, while having lower fighting experience, would likely still outhax 7-C Frisk via time stop, flight and Regenerationn.

B) SAVE & LOAD and Type 9 allowed, but no Low 2-C on death: The problem with Frisk's LOAD is that it resets the entire fight, while Madotsuki can come back without resetting. This means that she can come back to finish the job if she were to fall, whereas Frisk can't. Either endless stalemate or Frisk gives up.

C) Everything allowed, but both are at 7-C: Madotsuki's Low 2-C would destroy Frisk's chances to reset, given that destroying time and all. So, easy Mado win, if not outright stomp.

D) Both at full power: Frisk being 2-C with Resistance to Existence erasure likely makes it a stomp for them.

 

[Numbersguy]

A) I agree

B) Doesn't work, what avoid Frisk from memorizing all of Mado's effects and then killing her when she uses one that isn't "useful"? Yeah it resets the fight, but Mado won't know that Frisk is "learning" and respawning, eventually Frisk will win.

Also, proof of the last bit of Madotsuki coming back without resetting. Because when she dies in the dream, her progress is undone in that section and you have to redo it until you get the Macguffin.

C) I am sure waking up will count as "cheating" because both will be locked at 7-C. So, no waking up.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

B) Except that Mado will come back from that death, given that Type 9 is a thing. No matter how good Frisk gets, they won't be able to kill her enough times for it to turn into a permanent win.

Also, progress is always undone when you leave any room in the game. Waking up doesn't reset anything more than just leaving the room. In fact, the few things that are permanent (picking up effects) stays. Burden of proof is on you there.

C) I'm saying if everything is allowed, but they have their physical stats at 7-C.

 

[Aki_No_Mangetsu]

You can't restrict SAVE AND LOAD... that is how Frisk's powers work. You restrict SAVE AND LOAD, you turn Frisk into an ordinary kid. You can lock Frisk into 7-C, but you can't restrict SAVE AND LOAD.

I can't make it win by first kill? I wasn't removing frisks abilities I was just saying first to kill the other wins

Edit: also in round 2 madotsuki can wake up

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I'm...not 100% sure that's a thing that can be done? I guess we do allow the user to specify the win conditions, but it sounds like an attempt at a loophole here.

Either way, my opinion remains the same. In a fight with first kill win, Madotsuki is too haxxed for Frisk to be able to effectively fight her.

While the second round is likely a stomp, if you keep the Low 2-C part in.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well I did vote on your own conditions in the post above. With Madotsuki winning the first scenario, but likely stomping in the second.

 

[Aki_No_Mangetsu]

Okey so can i set the win conditions? If not then I can't add this can i?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well, imo the fairest this match would get with our rules would be to give Frisk SAVE & LOAD and give Madotsuki her Type 9, but restricting her Low 2-C on death.

 

[Aki_No_Mangetsu]

That makes sense should i change th OP to that then?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah, probably. It'd be able to be added and wouldn't be a stomp.