Freddy Fazbear (and friends) low 2-C upgrade

[ZillertheBucko]

Yeah, that would need a different key. Apsolutely not in base.

for 2-C or for low 2-C?

 

[DaReaperMan]

for 2-C or for low 2-C?

Low 2-C, 2-C should be handled on its own thread

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Low 2-C, 2-C should be handled on its own thread

ok so you
disagree with the original post?

 

[DaReaperMan]

ok so you
disagree with the original post?

I agree with Low 2-C, it just apsolutely needs to be in an "end of game" key or something along those lines. Cause Low 2-C normal enemies is stupid.

 

[Cul0r]

Agree

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I agree with Low 2-C, it just apsolutely needs to be in an "end of game" key or something along those lines. Cause Low 2-C normal enemies is stupid.

ok well, calling it stupid is a bit of a weird argument
if you're gonna say normal enemies are wall level, then I'd assume you need to prove that
the gap between high 3-A and low 2-c is infinite, and the gap between high 3-A and 3-A is infinite as well so
are you proposing that they get double infinitely stronger in endgame?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I called it stupid because their other feat is either sheer size or harming metal animatronics that var from steel to I believe Titanium.

That's what scaling suggests.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I called it stupid because their other feat is either sheer size or harming metal animatronics that var from steel to I believe Titanium.

That's what scaling suggests.

Ok but how does that contradict low 2-C? It doesn’t actually serve as an anti feat at all, and what the animatronics are made of doesn’t matter, since they’re still low 2-C level

 

[ZeedKZ]

I think that early map enemies shouldn't scale to Low 2-C since you can easily beat them with a few hits even when you're at low levels. I think that the only normal enemies that should scale are the endgame enemies mostly enemies from Pinwheel Circus/Funhouse and the Glitch World because they're really a pain to beat even in high levels.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Because they have no feats of Low 2-C, the feat was done by a literal top-tier. You gonna argue that the very first enemies you ever encounter are Low 2-C, that bloody well every starting character one-shots by the time they're level 15?

It's inconsistent with the animetronics themselves, cause metal is objectively 9-C to 9-B when it comes to robots.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I think that early map enemies shouldn't scale to Low 2-C since you can easily beat them with a few hits even when you're at low levels. I think that the only normal enemies that should scale are the endgame enemies mostly enemies from Pinwheel Circus/Funhouse and the Glitch World because they're really a pain to beat even in high levels.

Ok but here’s the problem
even if the early enemies were 19 trillion times weaker than endgame, they would still have to be low 2-c since that’s how being 4D works
Ok, so animdude and everybody above him is definitely low 2-C, and the animatronics that can beat him are low 2-C
And I think we can all agree that security is low 2-C as well
Now, you say the circus enemies are low 2-C and this makes sense, however
Graveyard enemies are not that much breaker than them, why are they not low 2-C as well? Same goes for worlds 4-1 being comparable to eachother

 

[DaReaperMan]

...

You don't scale to things that one-shot you. The feat was done by something that one-shots them.

 

[Coolboy6]

Ok but here’s the problem
even if the early enemies were 19 trillion times weaker than endgame, they would still have to be low 2-c since that’s how being 4D works
Ok, so animdude and everybody above him is definitely low 2-C, and the animatronics that can beat him are low 2-C
And I think we can all agree that security is low 2-C as well
Now, you say the circus enemies are low 2-C and this makes sense, however
Graveyard enemies are not that much breaker than them, why are they not low 2-C as well? Same goes for worlds 4-1 being comparable to eachother

I lost my braincells reading that

 

[ZillertheBucko]

ok I had a whole counterargument planned but I really don't give a shit about what tier the early enemies are in, the point of the crt was to say that all animatronics should be low 2-C

 

[DaReaperMan]

In a separate key, sure. Not for the one that get one-shot by Scott and the like.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

In a separate key, sure. Not for the one that get one-shot by Scott and the like.

oh yeah, now I remember why we were talking about early enemies
fine, let me ask this then
for example, level 10 animtronics don't one shot early enemies, level 50 animatronics do
I think we still haven't heard a reason for why the animatronics at that level should be infinitely weaker than level 50 ones
if you're gonna say they aren't low 2-c then you have to explain that, or else there's legit no reason for why they should be tier 9

 

[Cul0r]

why are they not low 2-C as well? Same goes for worlds 4-1 being comparable to eachother

Due to levels being game mechanics

 

[DaReaperMan]

oh yeah, now I remember why we were talking about early enemies
fine, let me ask this then
for example, level 10 animtronics don't one shot early enemies, level 50 animatronics do
I think we still haven't heard a reason for why the animatronics at that level should be infinitely weaker than level 50 ones
if you're gonna say they aren't low 2-c then you have to explain that, or else there's legit no reason for why they should be tier 9

There is, the scale to what harms them. Metal on robots are objectively 9-C to 9-B. And also...

...

You don't scale to things that one-shot you. The feat was done by something that one-shots them.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

There is, the scale to what harms them. Metal on robots are objectively 9-C to 9-B. And also...

dude, this argument literally implies that endgame animatronics are 9-B due to being made of the same metal.
it's pretty obvious by now that this doesn't apply, at all

...

You don't scale to things that one-shot you. The feat was done by something that one-shots them.

I'm not scaling them to animatronics that one shot them, this has already been said before
I'm simply downscaling mid game animatronics from end game, and then early game from mid game
there are also literal level one parties that can defeat animdude

Due to levels being game mechanics

ok I don't have much to say about that except it being another one of the wiki's useless rules and standards
but regardless it doesn't matter, since exact damages and levels don't matter that much.
all that matter is who can survive a hit from who, regardless of game mechanics not being able to be used to say exactly how much damage they took
if endgame low 2-C doesn't one shot midgame enemy, and midgame animtronic doesn't one shot early game enemy, then it's still safe to say they're all low 2-C

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yes, because they have higher feats end game.

Except they kinda do. Most end game animatronics are going to be one-shotting anything coming from the first or second areas, you clam EVERYTHING is Low 2-C by claiming your scaling works, which it doesn't. Once again, the feat that's Low 2-C in the first place was performed by Animdude, a Top-tier, you'd be scaling the bottom-tiers to him. I'm fine with Low 2-C as long as it is in a separate key. Your logic is A>B>C. But when A completely ***** all over B and certainly murders C we find some problems. Problems that say we can't scale to Animdude at all because the guy who literally performed the feat one-shots the people your trying to scale to him.

And while the FNAF World profiles could use the touch-up of removing the Unknown and doing legitimate scaling with the durability due to metal and calculating the size of the bigger early-game bosses. Cause the 9-B feats early game are harming each boss. Which would make Low 2-C, even if acclible, an outlier.

 

[DaReaperMan]

But it's clear neither of us will concede so it's best to call staff to take a look at this.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Yes, because they have higher feats end game.

Except they kinda do. Most end game animatronics are going to be one-shotting anything coming from the first or second areas, you clam EVERYTHING is Low 2-C by claiming your scaling works, which it doesn't. Once again, the feat that's Low 2-C in the first place was performed by Animdude, a Top-tier, you'd be scaling the bottom-tiers to him. I'm fine with Low 2-C as long as it is in a separate key. Your logic is A>B>C. But when A completely ***** all over B and certainly murders C we find some problems. Problems that say we can't scale to Animdude at all because the guy who literally performed the feat one-shots the people your trying to scale to him.

And while the FNAF World profiles could use the touch-up of removing the Unknown and doing legitimate scaling with the durability due to metal and calculating the size of the bigger early-game bosses. Cause the 9-B feats early game are harming each boss. Which would make Low 2-C, even if acclible, an outlier.

I do completely understand that the gap between them is massive, but I'm not trying to argue at all that they're close in any way
it's just that once characters touch tier low 2-C, their rank increases by an infinite amount
1/2 of infinite is still infinite, 1/999 of infinity is still infinite
we can't directly scale endgame to early game, but endgame characters are low 2-C, followed by a weaker low 2-C, and it just keeps getting lower and lower but it can't go lower than low 2-C unless there is an infinitely large gap, that's how the tier works (afaik)

But it's clear neither of us will concede so it's best to call staff to take a look at this.

that's fair I guess, though I'd prefer not to overall

 

[DaReaperMan]

Which is completely contradicted by the 9-B feats the Animetronics have early game. Destroying rocks (not casual), harming the bosses, of which there are like 3 (not casual), and harming eachother (not casual).

I'm arguing outliers here now.

 

[Coolboy6]

the Animetronics

You talking about these guys?

 

[DaReaperMan]

You talking about these guys?

No.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Which is completely contradicted by the 9-B feats the Animetronics have early game. Destroying rocks (not casual), harming the bosses, of which there are like 3 (not casual), and harming eachother (not casual).

I'm arguing outliers here now.

if goku beat up an an ant and outran an crippled tortoise would that be an outlier? It's only an outlier if you can prove anti feats, in this example, it would be goku LOSING the fight to an elderly hippo (that would actually be the outlier in that situation but ignore that part of the analogy)
if you can actually show that animatronics or enemies early game actually can lose to 9-B attacks with a feat or statement then you could argue an outlier
otherwise it's kinda impossible, because if you're low 2-C then you are still fully capable of

also what do you mean destroying rocks? I don't recall that being a part of the game
also harming the bosses isn't a 9-B feat, it would be low 2-C because of the bosses scaling from animatronics
and fighting themselves would also be low 2-C because they are still low 2-C

 

[ZillertheBucko]

no offense to any crippled tortoises out there

 

[DaReaperMan]

How about all of the rock and metal enemies in the caves.

As for the early bosses being Low 2-C what feats do they have on that level? What feats do the Early Animatronics have on that level? What feats do the mid-game Animatronics have on that level? Here's the answer: none.

Animdude is the only character who holds a Low 2-C feat in the verse, and he is the ONLY one to do so. Everything else is 9-B due to size that should still get calculated.

While yes, I do agree with scaling late game Animatronics like Funtime Foxy and Springtrap to Animdude, anyone who ain't found in the funhouse has no feats to scale.

 

[DaReaperMan]

(Also the feat may not even be Low 2-C but instead 3-A so...)

 

[ZeedKZ]

Security should scale to Low 2-C since he is a end game boss and shouldn't be that much weaker than Animdude or the endgame animatronics and is capable OHK the latter. Chipper's Revenge should likely scale to that level too, and Purplegeist and CMR being massively stronger.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Correct. I specifically said that Animdude had the feat however.

 

[ZeedKZ]

Chipper's Revenge does have a similar feat but we don't know how he did that.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Gotcha.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

How about all of the rock and metal enemies in the caves.

As for the early bosses being Low 2-C what feats do they have on that level? What feats do the Early Animatronics have on that level? What feats do the mid-game Animatronics have on that level? Here's the answer: none.

Animdude is the only character who holds a Low 2-C feat in the verse, and he is the ONLY one to do so. Everything else is 9-B due to size that should still get calculated.

While yes, I do agree with scaling late game Animatronics like Funtime Foxy and Springtrap to Animdude, anyone who ain't found in the funhouse has no feats to scale.

there doesn't need to be a feat because the feat is simply scaling
if you're gonna argue that early game can't be low 2-C, then simply explain:
is level 10 freddy infinitely weaker than 11? is level 15 freddy infinitely weaker than 20? Where's the cutoff? you still haven't given an answer to that question
also, you say animdude is the only one with a low 2-C feat and then immediately say funtime foxy and springtrap scale to him
power scaling is a thing that exists, so please stop repeating the thing about animdude being the only one with a low 2-C feat because we both know that it doesn't matter, and many other verses have been upgraded because of one single character's feat

 

[DaReaperMan]

Levels, once again, are game mechanics, and your argument can be solved by "at this part of the game they can harm beings with 9-B feats, and at this part of the game they can harm beings with a Low 2-C feat" because Lore.

Said verses also didn't have said feat performed by someone leugues above most of the other characters. There comes a point where the scaling your trying to put into place literally isn't supported by ANYTHING. You need FEATS. There are no tier 2 feats for the bottom, low, and mid tier characters. Only 9-B shit.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Levels, once again, are game mechanics, and your argument can be solved by "at this part of the game they can harm beings with 9-B feats, and at this part of the game they can harm beings with a Low 2-C feat" because Lore.

Said verses also didn't have said feat performed by someone leugues above most of the other characters. There comes a point where the scaling your trying to put into place literally isn't supported by ANYTHING. You need FEATS. There are no tier 2 feats for the bottom, low, and mid tier characters. Only 9-B shit.

again, the feat is simple power scaling
"because lore" is not gonna work here, since there is absolutely nothing that occurs for the animatronics to get an infinite amount stronger, or even stronger at all EXCEPT for levels
if you're gonna want a different key, then there needs to be some kind of power up, training, time skip, etc
but literally all we have to go off on is levels, and nothing else except for levels.
and if you're gonna go the route that we can use levels, but we can't use the actual values of the level up's boost
well one, that's kinda just an example of dumb wiki standards, they REALLY need to get that fixed
but also, if we're just gonna use levels themselves, and a team of level one animatronics can beat animdude, then wouldn't the wiki just assume that level 1 animatronics should compare to eachother, and funtime foxy level one would be comparable to level one freddy?

but of course, there is always the option of nitpicking harder, and creating another rule that animatronics found in pinwheel funhouse are simply stronger
and yet, even so, that would have to mean anything capable of killing them is also low 2-C, since anything lower than low 2-C cannot harm a universal+ character without using hax
if you're bad enough at the game, a level 80 springtrap can die to the attacks of a fazbear hills gearrat, which would make it low 2-C
I can and will quite literally argue things such as this, because there exists not a single anti feat to contradict it and prove outliers
animatronics being made of "metal" is not an anti feat because bouncer is literally a snowman, is freddy fazbear just snow level+? Some enemies can use waterhose, which is an ohko at 30% health. Is freddy fazbear water level?
is security now 9-B for being made of metal? Is porkpatch undercooked meat slice level+ for being a pig? Chica's magic rainbow is a rainbow which is made of lights and clouds, and I know we're not arguing that the magic rainbow is air level+

Of course these things aren't true, which is why we're back to the basic facts
anything that can kill a low 2-C thing absolutely must be low 2-C (or has hax, which don't apply here of course, for most enemies at least)
everything thing in the game is capable of killing an endgame character, even if it's unlikely for them to do so

you're right that there aren't feats, which means there are also literally no anti feats and we have to go with scaling, and you said yourself that scaling makes everything low 2-C

game mechanics being unusable on the wiki doesn't change anything, since as long as A character can kill B low 2-C character and there are no anti feats, then A absolutely must be low 2-C

 

[Coolboy6]

again, the feat is simple power scaling
"because lore" is not gonna work here, since there is absolutely nothing that occurs for the animatronics to get an infinite amount stronger, or even stronger at all EXCEPT for levels
if you're gonna want a different key, then there needs to be some kind of power up, training, time skip, etc
but literally all we have to go off on is levels, and nothing else except for levels.
and if you're gonna go the route that we can use levels, but we can't use the actual values of the level up's boost
well one, that's kinda just an example of dumb wiki standards, they REALLY need to get that fixed
but also, if we're just gonna use levels themselves, and a team of level one animatronics can beat animdude, then wouldn't the wiki just assume that level 1 animatronics should compare to eachother, and funtime foxy level one would be comparable to level one freddy?

but of course, there is always the option of nitpicking harder, and creating another rule that animatronics found in pinwheel funhouse are simply stronger
and yet, even so, that would have to mean anything capable of killing them is also low 2-C, since anything lower than low 2-C cannot harm a universal+ character without using hax
if you're bad enough at the game, a level 80 springtrap can die to the attacks of a fazbear hills gearrat, which would make it low 2-C
I can and will quite literally argue things such as this, because there exists not a single anti feat to contradict it and prove outliers
animatronics being made of "metal" is not an anti feat because bouncer is literally a snowman, is freddy fazbear just snow level+? Some enemies can use waterhose, which is an ohko at 30% health. Is freddy fazbear water level?
is security now 9-B for being made of metal? Is porkpatch undercooked meat slice level+ for being a pig? Chica's magic rainbow is a rainbow which is made of lights and clouds, and I know we're not arguing that the magic rainbow is air level+

Of course these things aren't true, which is why we're back to the basic facts
anything that can kill a low 2-C thing absolutely must be low 2-C (or has hax, which don't apply here of course, for most enemies at least)
everything thing in the game is capable of killing an endgame character, even if it's unlikely for them to do so

you're right that there aren't feats, which means there are also literally no anti feats and we have to go with scaling, and you said yourself that scaling makes everything low 2-C

game mechanics being unusable on the wiki doesn't change anything, since as long as A character can kill B low 2-C character and there are no anti feats, then A absolutely must be low 2-C

Bro what?
The end game characters are the only ones who can DAMAGE Animdude. Not every ******* character because the low-mid tiers would do SHIT against Animdude. Is it THAT HARD to understand?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Bro what?
The end game characters are the only ones who can DAMAGE Animdude. Not every ******* character because the low-mid tiers would do SHIT against Animdude. Is it THAT HARD to understand?

thanks for completely missing the point
anyways I'll explain it again I guess
wether they can damage animdude or not is irrelevant, if they can damage something that can damage something that can damage something that can damage animdude, they're still gonna be low 2-C no matter much weaker (on a finite scale) they are than animdude

 

[DaReaperMan]

Your clinging to Low 2-C like its a saving grace. It isn't. Here we have a snowman with machine guns, and snow can get hard, the water manipulation is hax, being made of metal is an anti-feat when said characters have no feats other then damaging other metal beings and rock beings. As said below, it's ludicrous to assume those things are Low 2-C. Oh and uh... Sorry to piss on your parade.

No, there's a clear difference in feats. Freddy has 9-B feats and Funtime Foxy can beat people whom roam around the Funhouse, IE a bunch of things that can give the Animetronics which contend with Animdude a hard time.

Oh, and let me just tear apart that little OP of yours now. Animdude is one of the characters deemed too powerful and sent to what's essentially Halloween hell. AKA, he scales to apsolutely nobody but the other characters found in there and what's in the dungeon place.

Try to upgrade every Fire Emblem fodder soldier to tier 7, it'll be shot down so hard that the CRT's family won't even get invited to the funeral until AFTER its over.

 

[Cul0r]

thanks for completely missing the point
anyways I'll explain it again I guess
wether they can damage animdude or not is irrelevant, if they can damage something that can damage something that can damage something that can damage animdude, they're still gonna be low 2-C no matter much weaker (on a finite scale) they are than animdude

I'll bring a quote from game mechanics page

Game Mechanics refers to the abilities shown in games (usually video games) that are determined by the rules of the game (examples include hit points, levels, statistics, world map crossing in seconds outside of cinematics, etcetera) and are not necessarily indicative of a character's or entity's actual abilities.

Examples:

In many Star Wars games, a capital ship can be destroyed by repeated laser attacks from a single fighter (specifically, a fighter can reduce a capital ship's health points to zero over a number of laser attacks that do a certain amount of damage based on coding in the game's programming). However, in an actual in-universe battle, this would be impossible as the force shields would recharge faster than the fighter could damage them (Health points do not exist, as that is obviously not how durability functions outside of games. You cannot chip away at something, and eventually break through, if your firepower is not sufficiently strong).

In StarCraft, battle cruisers do not automatically one-shot fodder infantry soldiers with their Yamato cannons. However, in the cutscenes, Yamato cannons nuke the entire battlefield, cause mass genocide, and obliterate entire populations. The game's programming tries to avoid making large ships too overpowered during gameplay for competitive purposes.

In-game, Mario can get knocked out by a Goomba in a few hits and cannot even dent Thwomps without use of invincibility stars. But in canon, Mario has the strength to effortlessly lift an entire fortress containing entire armies of Goombas, Koopa Troopas, Thwomps, ectetera, and he can toss them all off the screen. And he can also crush the same castles thus one-shotting all of them just by jumping on it.

More general examples include bullets doing minor damage to someone in gameplay in which they are essentially shown to be bullet proof. As mentioned above, it is not possible to chip away at durability like this in real life (If something can shrug off a bullet once, it can usually continue to do when hit by continuous number of them over an inconsistent interval against arbitrary areas).