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Four Knights of the Apocalypse/Nanatsu no Taizai Main Discussion Thread

Meli_Tempest said:
“By the way, at this point, except for Meliodas, who is the strongest of the [Seven Deadly Sins]?

In his 'Ultimate' form, it's Escanor. If not in 'Ultimate', Ban is the strongest. The next would be the awakened King”
That's being pretty specific.
Click to expand...
Actually I misread this when I bolded it but I still have contentions with this that I already addressed with in my original post on how they are weaker
 
Given the strangely controversial I'll keep it simpler, it doesn't seem ideal to me but whatever.

- Ban, King, 2nd Demon Mark Meli scale "higher" than normal The One status.

- Base Meli scales to 1/4 of that.

Everybody agree with this?

I have my own problems with this, but what do you think?
 
Meli_Tempest said:
Ban, King, 2nd Demon Mark Meli scale "higher" than normal The One status.
Click to expand...
This makes zero sense at all.

You are saying that Ban, King and 2nd Demon Mark Meli are stronger than The One when everyone you mentioned combined effort couldn’t barely even phase The Demon King whilst The Demon King stated The One to be equal to Him.

This makes zero sense
 
Majinere566 said:
This makes zero sense at all.

You are saying that Ban, King and 2nd Demon Mark Meli are stronger than The One when everyone you mentioned combined effort couldn’t barely even phase The Demon King whilst The Demon King stated The One to be equal to Him.

This makes zero sense
Click to expand...
Meliodas 2 mark has his own 1v1 vs 100% Demon King feats, and to take minor damage from his attacks even though the Demon King has murderous intent.

You have the statement of Nakaba. And there is the statement that sins were being restrained. The author's statement is consistent with the story, your argument completely ignores the whole context.
 
Meli_Tempest said:
Meliodas 2 mark has his own 1v1 vs 100% Demon King feats, and to take minor damage from his attacks even though the Demon King has murderous intent.
Click to expand...
His 1v1 that deals no damage at all to The Demon King? He was getting overwhelmed the entire fight

Not only that the people you claim who are stronger than The One are getting easily bypassed The Demon King in this panel

Are noticeably bleeding from attacks by the Demon King here

Just because they are “holding back” to not kill Zeldris doesn’t mean they would be restraining themselves to defend attacks from The Demon King that’s essentially working backwards. King’s Pollen Garden won’t be getting two shotted by someone who considers The One Equal to him.

Nakaba statement is incredibly inconsistent and contradictory when the source material he made says the complete opposite. Unless he’s talking about in an overall fight when factors other than strength are in play.

And On the Wiki we do not use statements from the author that are inconsistent or contradict his work

But since this is a AP discussion it’s just flat out wrong
 
Demon_Lord18 said:
The end using the length of the Behemoth gave 4.985 Zettatons (Small Planet)

It may be possible to use only the length of Behemoth as the radius of the planet for a minimum estimate. The result of the earthquake would be 549.142 Exatons (Small Planet)
Click to expand...
This wrong, calcing world wide quake should be use circumference of planet not radius. I try both roughly of your end demon world size, i got 5-B and 5-B+ barely 5-A for behemoth quake
 
Majinere566 said:
His 1v1 that deals no damage at all to The Demon King? He was getting overwhelmed the entire fight
Click to expand...
He was being overwhelmed by desperation to save Zeldris, not the demon King... and let's ignore that that same 2 demonic mark received nothing but scratches from the DK's attacks... completely ignoring context at your convenience.

We are going to ignore the fact that this happens on top of the magic lake where the Demon King is constantly recovering? Recovering magic power and where the Demon King has constant superiority?

Are we going to ignore the fact that The One fights against the Demon King who no longer has that advantage over him? Sure, so it is obviously inconsistent, ignoring the context and manipulating everything to your liking.

All things considered Nakaba's statement makes sense and is consistent with the series.
 
Damn this doesn't even matter, we scaled Near-Noon Escanor to moon level+, this discussion is just talking about whether they are "at least" 5-C+ or 5-C+ plain.

It's a waste of time.
 
No it’s not, your pushing for a wrong justification regardless of “5-C “and I’ll respond to your argument and explain to you how wrong they are
 
Before I start my response, @Makai641001 Can you translate this?
強いのは誰なんでしょうか？
央： 極み”のエスカノールですね。
”極み。でなければ、バンのほうが強いです。次が覚醒キング。
ー第324話ですが、ゼルドリスとゲルダのカップルのやりとりは反響がありましたか？
央：これは反響が大きかったですね！ もともと、ゼルドリスが好きと言ってくれる人も結構多かったですしね。あと、「ゲルダって、どんな性格なんですか？」ってい
 
Last edited:
Alright.

Meli_Tempest said:
He was being overwhelmed by desperation to save Zeldris, not the demon King... and let's ignore that that same 2 demonic mark received nothing but scratches from the DK's attacks... completely ignoring context at your convenience.
Click to expand...
He was quite literally getting overhwhelmed to the point Elizabeth had to beg him to "back off and reasses" his desperation to save Zeldris is there no doubt, but this stage in his demon mark he was getting overpowered easily while dealing no damage as opposed to him receiving "scratches" from the Demon King. Accusing me of ignoring context at my own convenience is crazy.
Meli_Tempest said:
We are going to ignore the fact that this happens on top of the magic lake where the Demon King is constantly recovering? Recovering magic power and where the Demon King has constant superiority?
Click to expand...
Are you also going to Ignore the fact that a weaker escanor also partook in this fight and perfomed far better than Full grown Wings King, Ban and Demon Mark Meliodas did? Upon his arrival he blocks a swing from The Demon King that easily breezed past the trio.
Used Divine Sword Escanor to Pierce a hole in the Demon King, the first notable wound he receives whilst achieving his Prime Form
Notable Slash wound from Divine Sword Escanor
His Punches visibly making The Demon King Bleeding, albeit his durability is lower as he is in a weaker state which explains why he took so much damage

So you convinently left out Escanor facing the same "constant superiority" whilst in a weaker state and perfoming better than the trio to fit your own narrative of what happened but accuse me of ignoring context for my own convenience?

Meli_Tempest said:
Are we going to ignore the fact that The One fights against the Demon King who no longer has that advantage over him? Sure, so it is obviously inconsistent, ignoring the context and manipulating everything to your liking.
Click to expand...
Steelmanning this point, The One Escanor is fighting The Demon King whilst having his Magic replenished before getting cutoff vs King. Ban and Meliodas fighting The Demon King whilst his magic was still replenshing meaning that they fought a weaker and a fully replenished Demon King and the results are the same, getting overpowered, But I don't need this steelman because I basically already addressed this argument in my last one. "ignoring the context and manipulating everything to your liking." Is just a totally un needed Jab but I'll let this slide
 
Majinere566 said:
Alright.


He was quite literally getting overhwhelmed to the point Elizabeth had to beg him to "back off and reasses" his desperation to save Zeldris is there no doubt, but this stage in his demon mark he was getting overpowered easily while dealing no damage as opposed to him receiving "scratches" from the Demon King. Accusing me of ignoring context at my own convenience is crazy.

Are you also going to Ignore the fact that a weaker escanor also partook in this fight and perfomed far better than Full grown Wings King, Ban and Demon Mark Meliodas did? Upon his arrival he blocks a swing from The Demon King that easily breezed past the trio.
Used Divine Sword Escanor to Pierce a hole in the Demon King, the first notable wound he receives whilst achieving his Prime Form
Notable Slash wound from Divine Sword Escanor
His Punches visibly making The Demon King Bleeding, albeit his durability is lower as he is in a weaker state which explains why he took so much damage

So you convinently left out Escanor facing the same "constant superiority" whilst in a weaker state and perfoming better than the trio to fit your own narrative of what happened but accuse me of ignoring context for my own convenience?


Steelmanning this point, The One Escanor is fighting The Demon King whilst having his Magic replenished before getting cutoff vs King. Ban and Meliodas fighting The Demon King whilst his magic was still replenshing meaning that they fought a weaker and a fully replenished Demon King and the results are the same, getting overpowered, But I don't need this steelman because I basically already addressed this argument in my last one. "ignoring the context and manipulating everything to your liking." Is just a totally un needed Jab but I'll let this slide
Click to expand...
The only reason he is overwhelmed in this fight is explicitly because he is fighting desperately due to the desire to save Zeldris. He is not fighting correctly, this I literally addressed in the blog and a few posts above, all while holding back. That is the only reason, and it is said by both Meliodas and the DK many times throughout the fight.

Your argument lacks any weight whatsoever, is weak and falls apart on its own given the analysis of the full context. Let's break it down point by point:

- First an EVIDENT contradiction, you establish that the other sins are not doing any harm to the Demon King. When in this same scan, we see King doing more damage to him than Escanor's fists.

- Plus the "Notable Slash" doesn't do any harm.

- Plus "being the first to damage the DK's prime" isn't even a great feat, they had literally been fighting for a chapter!!! And all of the above was Meliodas restrained and desperate to save his brother.

- Escanor takes the most damage of all here. Meliodas is barely damaged in the whole fight, Ban and King barely take major surface damage, while he received deeper cuts, just a few pages after the scan you posted. The only state where he takes a similar level of damage to the rest of the sins, is in The One.

- It is established many times that Meliodas is holding back, while Escanor had to burn his body and subsequently his life to give the same level as the rest, if this is not giving it his all q unlike the rest I don't know what is.

He is literally having a similar or worse performance giving it his all than the other sins, taking more damage consistently.

Majinere566 said:
Ban and Meliodas fighting The Demon King whilst his magic was still replenshing meaning that they fought a weaker and a fully replenished Demon King and the results are the same, getting overpowered,
Click to expand...
You literally forgot that the Demon King claimed to be as powerful as he was in his youth from the beginning, and that he is using the Magic Lake as a source of unlimited power that he didn't have access to when he fought Escanor The One.

And this is the last time I'm going to respond, at this point it's just a circular argument since none of them are going to budge. If anyone else wants to pick up the thread in the future or else fix the current flawed scale they are free to do so.
 
Meli_Tempest said:
I want to gather everyone's arguments here, so tell me:

Where do you think Ban, King, and Meliodas EOS scale to?

Where do you think it is most consistent?

I think if we consider everything we can come up with something that makes sense.
Click to expand...
Ban scales to DK inside of Meliodas body but is overall weaker

King Is not far from but weaker than Ban

Meliodas scales a bit higher than Ban in base (was superior to newborn DK Zel that’s relative to DK Meliodas)

The One Escanor scales to 100% DK Zel despite being a bit weaker then higher with The one ultimate

Merlin scale is inconsistant as hell but in between weaker than 50% DK Ban King and co and Cath lvl

Gowther and Diane are Wall lvl
 
Meli_Tempest said:
The only reason he is overwhelmed in this fight is explicitly because he is fighting desperately due to the desire to save Zeldris. He is not fighting correctly, this I literally addressed in the blog and a few posts above, all while holding back. That is the only reason, and it is said by both Meliodas and the DK many times throughout the fight.
Click to expand...
Again that is LITERALLY not the only reason why he was getting Overwhelmed, whilst holding back to not and try to Kill Zeldris, He still needed to Defend the likes of Elizabeth, Merlin ETC and got blow by easily by Prime Demon King, alongside King and Ban. In his 1v1 he GOT OVERPOWERED TO THE POINT ELIZABETH had to tell him to reasses the situation as he was not in a winning state. I have repeatedly said this and you’ve chose to ignore this and keep pushing on your point in which I have addressed.


Actually, i could even argue that Base Meliodas or Demon Mark Meliodas isn’t even holding back to the degree you are insinuating. The Only thing Meliodas was holding back was his Demon King Powers(which is his true magic form) insinuating that he restricted himself from using said power by fighting in Base and Demon Mark, not even holding back in general, which is supported by the fact that the statement was made whilst he was fighting in Base.
Your arguments have been weak and addressed on multiple occasions while I’ve brought up countless arguments you’ve failed to address don’t ever call my arguments weak when you willingly chose to ignore them



Meli_Tempest said:
- First an EVIDENT contradiction, you establish that the other sins are not doing any harm to the Demon King. When in this same scan, we see King doing more damage to him than Escanor's fists.

- Plus the "Notable Slash" doesn't do any harm.

- Plus "being the first to damage the DK's prime" isn't even a great feat, they had literally been fighting for a chapter!!! And all of the above was Meliodas restrained and desperate to save his brother.

- Escanor takes the most damage of all here. Meliodas is barely damaged in the whole fight, Ban and King barely take major surface damage, while he received deeper cuts, just a few pages after the scan you posted. The only state where he takes a similar level of damage to the rest of the sins, is in The One.
Click to expand...

1. Holy strawman, Not once did I establish are not doing any harm, when I linked that scan I mentioned it as drawing blood from the Demon King and even before that I verbatim said
Used Divine Sword Escanor to Pierce a hole in the Demon King, the first notable wound he receives whilst achieving his Prime Form
Click to expand...
Stop putting words in my mouth.

2. Literally check the second image I linked it’s not that hard to spot the slash line on the Demon King’s body stop playing ignorant

3. “Plus "being the first to damage the DK's prime" isn't even a great feat, they had literally been fighting for a chapter!!!”

Do you know how terribly this works against your argument right? For A WHOLE chapter they didn’t make Prime Demon King to drop a single drop of Blood, they couldn’t easily stop the Demon King’s swings even after fighting for a chapter? So with your logic Escanor showing up and Doing all the things the Trio failed to do in less than 5 panels should be noteworthy.This is embarrassing argumentation.

4. “ Escanor takes the most damage of all here. Meliodas is barely damaged in the whole fight, Ban and King barely take major surface damage, while he received deeper cuts, just a few pages after the scan you posted. The only state where he takes a similar level of damage to the rest of the sins, is in The One.”

First of all, they’re mostly from the wounds he sustained previously as show my the literal cut marks on his chest, the only new injuries are the one on his head, consistent with the others.

Of course he’s getting deep cuts when he’s taking Prison Gate Sabre Head on whilst the others didn’t which is in character for Escanor.

And in fact I even stated that his durability is lower due to it being a weaker version of Escanor. But most importantly arguing durability is useless in an AP discussion.

Your entire argument have been sad pack it up.
 
At this point we need a mod to read these arguments if they can to judge this shit cuz I’m not gonna have to take time out of my day to address another ignorant rebuttal.

@Damage3245 if you ever get the chance to read this can you give us your thoughts on who’s right?
 
Anyways, most of the current scaling justifications are good as it is,

I’ll try to find the reason why we never went ahead with the Cursed by light 10x amp fiasco
 
Faa_Tzy said:
How even meliodas 10x stronger than zeldris at first place? They're literally potrayed equal in the entire movie
Click to expand...
Yeah which is why I think we never went ahead with it.

But the reasoning for the 10x thing is that Dahila armour was able to tank and remain unscathed by A Zeldris enchanted attack, while Meliodas one punches the armour easily breaking it
 
Majinere566 said:
Yeah which is why I think we never went ahead with it.

But the reasoning for the 10x thing is that Dahila armour was able to tank and remain unscathed by A Zeldris enchanted attack, while Meliodas one punches the armour easily breaking it
Click to expand...
I just realized that it's the first Zeldris mark that doesn't hurt him, Meliodas would still be 189 Exatons
 
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