Forest of Susser

[Damage3245]

If you make the calcs with 80k- 6% then would get about 1.3M in total and over 200k shinobi of each nation

edit: Any of the values I gave in a low ball since we know that only a select few were recommended to the chunin exam instead of all the genin, so in fact the final value are the number of shinobi who passed through the academy and attempted the chunin exam

I'm sorry if my earlier argument was a little too incredulous for you but look at what you're writing now?

200k shinobi per nation? If you include that with Kodachi's statement earlier of for every 101 citizens 1 of them is shinobi and the others must be civilian, and then assume that all of them much live within the ninja village, then that means you're arguing the total population of each hidden village is 20.2 million people.

Does Sunagakure, Kumogakure and Konohagakure look like the kind of metropolises that hold over 20 million individuals?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Not sure if exact details are known, but I do know Kunkuro and Temari were both Jonin and Gaara was the Kazekage by the time the Chunin Exams that lead to Sakura, Team Kurinai, Team Asuma, and Team Gai all becoming Chunin with Neji going straight to Jonin took place.

Is that chunin exam considered cannon here?

I'm sorry if my earlier argument was a little too incredulous for you but look at what you're writing now?

I'm pretty sure you or other mods already criticized me for using incredubility in other threads so I'm not commenting anymore about that.

200k shinobi per nation? If you include that with Kodachi's statement earlier of for every 101 citizens 1 of them is shinobi and the others must be civilian, and then assume that all of them much live within the ninja village, then that means you're arguing the total population of each hidden village is 20.2 million people.

Does Sunagakure, Kumogakure and Konohagakure look like the kind of metropolises that hold over 20 million individuals?

I'm stating facts using official numbers either they fit your's or other's narrative it's irrelevant, and let's not talk about looks because that is what's being talked about. Also I was under the impression you didn't even believed that Kodachi's statement refered to Konoha alone

 

[Damage3245]

I'm stating facts using official numbers either they fit your's or other's narrative it's irrelevant, and let's not talk about looks because that is what's being talked about. Also I was under the impression you didn't even believed that Kodachi's statement refered to Konoha alone

From what I can tell you're stating speculation or conjecture using some official numbers as a basis, but this is the not the same thing as Konoha's population being factually the number you're presented.

And I don't believe in Kodachi's statement in the way that was presented further up in the thread; I included it in my response since that is the statement being used by the opposition. I can fully accept Kodachi's statement if it means the whole nation (which it seems to) and not the city.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

From what I can tell you're stating speculation or conjecture using some official numbers as a basis, but this is the not the same thing as Konoha's population being factually the number you're presented.

It's a value based on factual numbers. You are right it's not Konoha's population it's a supported value that describes a small percentage of the Konoha population since as I said any value is a low ball since the 200k are the shinobi who attempted the chunin exam which is a very specific part.

And I don't believe in Kodachi's statement in the way that was presented further up in the thread; I included it in my response since that is the statement being used by the opposition.

It just seems to me that you are using a statement you don't believe in to propose another argument of incredubility.

 

[Damage3245]

It just seems to me that you are using a statement you don't believe in to propose another argument of incredubility.

... Because I'm trying to put the opposition's argument in perspective. I can't quote the opposing side's own argument?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’m not gonna lie, it seems like neither of you (Suigetsu nor Damage) are going to convince each other. Might just be best to agree to disagree and wait for the remaining staff to sweep in and lock in their votes.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I’m not gonna lie, it seems like neither of you (Suigetsu nor Damage) are going to convince each other. Might just be best to agree to disagree and wait for the remaining staff to sweep in and lock in their votes.

I guess so. Fine with that

 

[Damage3245]

I’m not gonna lie, it seems like neither of you (Suigetsu nor Damage) are going to convince each other. Might just be best to agree to disagree and wait for the remaining staff to sweep in and lock in their votes.

I'm fine waiting for the input of more staff. I may not be fully active on this thread for a couple days.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Except for the part where I've shown other panels in the series that are more consistent with that value.

There hasn't been a single panel presented yet that supports the calc in the OP

I think for me the more concerning angle is, we are entertaining using a value taken from calculating a map that's clearly not to scale (shown by you with the streets and stuff)

That being said, it is undeniable Konoha is indeed bigger than the 10 km forest. Even if we want to dismiss virtually any map shown which showcases how big is Konoha compared to the forest, we at least have a minimum.

And I believe at the very least, Arc's argument of the population density does show greater support for that big a size, specially when combined with Suigetsu's arguments.

I'd even venture to say the over 60 km size is kinda conservative, given some of the maps depicting the forest and Konoha side by size.

So for me, I support the size, but also believe it's kinda iffy because of the scale being shown on panel and can understand why we'd want to dismiss it.

 

[LordTracer]

In reading through Arc and Damage’s arguments and the posts afterwards, I’m still in favor of the OP. I don’t find the counterarguments convincing.

 

[Damage3245]

I think for me the more concerning angle is, we are entertaining using a value taken from calculating a map that's clearly not to scale (shown by you with the streets and stuff)

That being said, it is undeniable Konoha is indeed bigger than the 10 km forest. Even if we want to dismiss virtually any map shown which showcases how big is Konoha compared to the forest, we at least have a minimum.

And I believe at the very least, Arc's argument of the population density does show greater support for that big a size, specially when combined with Suigetsu's arguments.

I'd even venture to say the over 60 km size is kinda conservative, given some of the maps depicting the forest and Konoha side by size.

So for me, I support the size, but also believe it's kinda iffy because of the scale being shown on panel and can understand why we'd want to dismiss it.

"Some of the maps?" There's multiple maps here?

Also, I've addressed the population density issue; the statement Arc is using is for the population of a nation, not a city.

In reading through Arc and Damage’s arguments and the posts afterwards, I’m still in favor of the OP. I don’t find the counterarguments convincing.

Which part was not convincing? Every single line?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

"Some of the maps?" There's multiple maps here?

Not on this thread, I'm making a general statement.

 

[Damage3245]

Not on this thread, I'm making a general statement.

I may be a bit lost here, but a general statement that there's multiple maps showing Konoha and the Forest of Death side-by-side which show that a 62 km radius is a conservative value? That'd be really relevant to the thread and I've not seen any of them.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So Lephyr would you be more in favor of a partial rating (seems so from your post), and if so, do you find likely or possibly more suitable?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I’m not gonna lie, it seems like neither of you (Suigetsu nor Damage) are going to convince each other. Might just be best to agree to disagree and wait for the remaining staff to sweep in and lock in their votes.

Agreed with this statement yes.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So Lephyr would you be more in favor of a partial rating (seems so from your post), and if so, do you find likely or possibly more suitable?

Possibly, I'd say.

I may be a bit lost here, but a general statement that there's multiple maps showing Konoha and the Forest of Death side-by-side which show that a 62 km radius is a conservative value? That'd be really relevant to the thread and I've not seen any of them.

I re-checked, seems the one I saw was the same as OP but without color. And the other place I had saw one removed the link, but likely is the same one. So my comment on that can be disregarded.

 

[Damage3245]

I re-checked, seems the one I saw was the same as OP but without color. And the other place I had saw one removed the link, but likely is the same one. So my comment on that can be disregarded.

Okay, no problem, thanks for clarifying.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Reading through both responses, my stance hasn't changed. I don't see the Leaf Village being huge as holding up with its actual depictions of size.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I have an idea. What if, since the map being drawn to scale is questionable given the size of many landmarks, we use the statement of the FoD being inside Konoha as a lowball, and the calc as the possible rating? Basically that Konoha is at least 20 km wide, possibly/likely 62 km

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I have an idea. What if, since the map being drawn to scale is questionable given the size of many landmarks, we use the statement of the FoD being inside Konoha as a lowball, and the calc as the possible rating? Basically that Konoha is at least 20 km wide, possibly/likely 62 km

you put a possibly on that already cluttered ass naruto page and im gonna put you six foot under.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

you put a possibly on that already cluttered ass naruto page and im gonna put you six foot under.

Try me

 

[Damage3245]

I have an idea. What if, since the map being drawn to scale is questionable given the size of many landmarks, we use the statement of the FoD being inside Konoha as a lowball, and the calc as the possible rating? Basically that Konoha is at least 20 km wide, possibly/likely 62 km

There are many potential solutions including averaging the size, finding a reasonable lowball, using possibly/likely ratings, etc.

The proposal in the OP of straight upgrading the size without any consideration of any contradictions that may arise from this is what I'm mostly opposed to.