For Honor: Invulnerability/Resurrection Removal

[KLOL506]

The feat in question is no-selling being hit by a ballista bolt, not dodging one.

Yeah, I understood the question.

Is there a value to use for that?

Yes, yes there is.

26 kg projectile.

190 mph (As per found in the blog) is rougly 85 m/s

0.5 * 26 * 85^2= 93925 J (Wall level)

 

[FinePoint]

Yeah, I understood the question.


Yes, yes there is.

26 kg projectile.

190 mph (As per found in the blog) is rougly 85 m/s

0.5 * 26 * 85^2= 93925 J (Wall level)

I see. So, do we need to make a blog with that math in it?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we always do, even for self-evident simple calculations, but we can probably use it without an evaluation in this case.

 

[FinePoint]

Well, we always do, even for self-evident simple calculations, but we can probably use it without an evaluation in this case.

Like this?

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose so.

 

[FinePoint]

0.5 * 26 * 85^2= 93925 J (Wall level)

Okay. Could you evaluate my calc?

 

[KLOL506]

Okay. Could you evaluate my calc?

Donezo.

 

[FinePoint]

Thank you.

I'm alright with these

What's the full list of characters who wear Draconite armor?
Looking at the wiki, I believe it's Astrea (Warmonger), Erzebet (Black Prior), Fu Huo (Zhanhu), Gretar (Jormungandr), and Yato (Hitokiri).

 

[Naito-desu]

Sorry for the late reply but I want to add some more stuff:

Astrea should be comparable to Apollyon, who currently scales to this unapproved calc (though it may need updating).

Secondly, the new Pirate Hero brings a lot to the table given that she has a hand cannon as well, so that also may need some looking at as well.

Looking at the wiki, I believe it's Astrea (Warmonger), Erzebet (Black Prior), Fu Huo (Zhanhu), Gretar (Jormungandr), and Yato (Hitokiri).

Don't forget Gryphon, although technically all For Honor chars should get it with prep as you encounter other heroes that have it later on but are not Harbingers/Horkos leaders but are affiliated with them.

 

[KLOL506]

Astrea should be comparable to Apollyon, who currently scales to this unapproved calc (though it may need updating).

Well if it makes you feel any better my approval may sort of count now, since I am a calc group member.

I'll try getting another calc member to look at it and that'll be that.

 

[FinePoint]

Sorry for the late reply but I want to add some more stuff:

Astrea should be comparable to Apollyon, who currently scales to this unapproved calc (though it may need updating).

Secondly, the new Pirate Hero brings a lot to the table given that she has a hand cannon as well, so that also may need some looking at as well.

Don't forget Gryphon, although technically all For Honor chars should get it with prep as you encounter other heroes that have it later on but are not Harbingers/Horkos leaders but are affiliated with them.

Astrea can scale to Apollyon since she's literally her reincarnation, I'm fine with that.
Does Orochi actually get hit with the debris?

I haven't really touched the new Pirate Hero. Probably worth combing through all their executions.

I'm neutral on giving it to everyone. It should be a separate key either way, rather than equipment or prep,
BECAUSE, whether they're named or not they have to be affiliated with that group, which means they're technically different than just any heroes.

 

[Naito-desu]

You do get hit by the falling debris while fighting

 

[FinePoint]

You do get hit by the falling debris while fighting

Oh, I remember now. The Orochi you play as in the campaign.

Yeah, that's fine.

 

[KLOL506]

WHY DOES FOR HONOR NOT HAVE AN OFFLINE SINGLE-PLAYER CAMPAIGN REEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[FinePoint]

WHY DOES FOR HONOR NOT HAVE AN OFFLINE SINGLE-PLAYER CAMPAIGN REEEEEEEEEEEE

You can't play it offline?

 

[KLOL506]

You can't play it offline?

Dude

For Honor is always online.

 

[FinePoint]

Dude

For Honor is always online

I didn't know, I've never tried to play it without internet.
Anyways, not important.

 

[KLOL506]

I didn't know, I've never tired to play it without internet.
Anyways, not important.

Yeah, you can just ignore my coping for UBI products now.

 

[Naito-desu]

Also Apollyon calc is approved, so I do think that verse high tiers should scale to that (all named characters + campaign main characters).

 

[FinePoint]

Also Apollyon calc is approved, so I do think that verse high tiers should scale to that (all named characters + campaign main characters).

I'm not sure about ALL named characters.

I think Apollyon, Astrea, and all the characters you play as in the campaign should qualify.

I think it should go:

Base Heroes: Shugoki Feat (AP + Dura)
Draconite Armor Heroes: Ballista Feat (Dura)
Apollyon/Astrea + Main Characters: Rubble Feat (AP + Dura)

Draconite doesn't scale to AP because they don't fight each other, and the draconite weapons are just a temporary pickup.

 

[Naito-desu]

Draconite Armor Heroes: Ballista Feat (Dura)

Do you think we can get better results from a catapult? You can still use catapults in the gamemodes, and they no-sell those pretty easy as well.

On another note, do you think we might be able to get better results calcing some other feats For Honor heroes can endure? They chuck stuff like bombs and incendiary explosives around, and that might make things interesting.

 

[FinePoint]

Do you think we can get better results from a catapult? You can still use catapults in the gamemodes, and they no-sell those pretty easy as well.

On another note, do you think we might be able to get better results calcing some other feats For Honor heroes can endure? They chuck stuff like bombs and incendiary explosives around, and that might make things interesting.

Well, potentially. I chose the ballista just because it was already calculated basically.

I think any feat should be fine if they don't one-shot any of the heroes.
Some of them have less HP than others, and perks can increase it in certain situations.
If stuff like perks and HP swings the results a lot there may be too many game mechanics to account for.

 

[Naito-desu]

There's around a 20 HP difference between the tankiest and the squishiest heroes, and most of the feats I mentioned don't one-shot them right away save for the catapult even without perks

 

[FinePoint]

There's around a 20 HP difference between the tankiest and the squishiest heroes, and most of the feats I mentioned don't one-shot them right away save for the catapult even without perks

I actually exclusively play Shugoki, so all my experience is being hit by things rather than using them.
Doesn't Spear Storm also one-shot?
I know that Hito definitely has a one-shot feat too.

But anyways, yeah you should be able to calc anything which doesn't one-shot the weakest character.
The Shugoki feat doesn't take that much effort from him, so It'll be believable if their normal attacks scale higher than that.

 

[Naito-desu]

Spear Storm is three volleys of spears that deals 70dmg each volley, Hitokiri's Senbonzakura is in a weird place given it can be parried though I can live with its original intent of being unparryable like it was on release

 

[FinePoint]

Sure. I feel like we're starting to diverge into something that should be a separate CRT though.
We should get the profiles fixed before upgrading the verse.

 

[KLOL506]

I don't think we should be using HP values or Levels to determine scaling like this, it's what our Game Mechanics page explicitly forbids.

 

[FinePoint]

I don't think we should be using HP values or Levels to determine scaling like this, it's what our Game Mechanics page explicitly forbids.

That's exactly what I said, which is why I'm against using feats which depend on HP.

 

[Naito-desu]

It should be fine so as long as you don't ascribe the actual value to the hero in a vsmatch, if we removed the percentages and just plainly stated it increased whatever with no fixed value, it would be okay imo. But yeah I'm okay with these changes as is.

Also back to the topic at hand but no one's seriously done catapult calcing?

If so, ballista should be fine I guess.

 

[KLOL506]

Also back to the topic at hand but no one's seriously done catapult calcing?

I actually tried that years ago but I never found a good shot, and don't even ask me to do it, I am abstaining from all Ubi games even tho I got the game permanently for free.

 

[FinePoint]

Also back to the topic at hand but no one's seriously done catapult calcing?

If so, ballista should be fine I guess.

Well this one ******* explodes on impact, and the size of the catapult and projectile will change things a lot, so it would be better to actually calculate the feat for the game.

 

[KLOL506]

Well this one ******* explodes on impact, and the size of the catapult and projectile will change things a lot, so it would be better to actually calculate the feat for the game.

It does ******* what on impact? Wow, Ubi really has outdone themselves post-Odyssey, huh

 

[FinePoint]

It should be fine so as long as you don't ascribe the actual value to the hero in a vsmatch, if we removed the percentages and just plainly stated it increased whatever with no fixed value, it would be okay imo. But yeah I'm okay with these changes as is.

Feats which increase HP can be listed as a vague increase, but I would be against, for example, using that to say they live a feat which otherwise one-shots them and using that as a value.

 

[FinePoint]

It does ******* what on impact? Wow, Ubi really has outdone themselves post-Odyssey, huh

 

[Antvasima]

So is anybody willing and able to apply what was accepted here, or should we wait to get something more done first?

 

[Naito-desu]

Really late, but the P&A stuff can be added but we probably need to calculate the maximum amount of punishment Draconite-infused enemies can take, but otherwise, these all look good

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is probably fine then.

However, can somebody provide the evidence for what needs to be calculated here please?

 

[Naito-desu]

Here are some of the strongest feats that characters can either barely survive or one-shot them that Invulnerable characters usually tank with ease if not completely no-sell with their damage reduction, not a complete list but the most relevant:

• Catapult exploding on impact (not like irl catapults)
• Fire Flask
• Igneus Imber

 

[Antvasima]

Here are some of the strongest feats that characters can either barely survive or one-shot them that Invulnerable characters usually tank with ease if not completely no-sell with their damage reduction, not a complete list but the most relevant:

• Catapult exploding on impact (not like irl catapults)
• Fire Flask
• Igneus Imber

Thank you.

@M3X @DemonGodMitchAubin @Migue79 @KieranH10

Would any of you be willing to calculate the above feats please? Tell us here if you are willing to do so.

 

[Naito-desu]

We can save that for another time, I can do it if no one else will. These changes can be applied without the dura calcs anyway