FMA Speed Downgrade?

[XING06]

So right now we have speed from 2 feats, King Bradley blitzing several soldiers so fast they didn't even see him move and Edward Elric dodging Marcoh's gun from near point-blank range. Both of these calcs have issues, which I feel make them inaccurate.

Antoniofer has already brought up in the Marcoh calc about how Ed could easily have aim-dodged the bullet, as he had already noticed Marcoh pointing it at him by that time, but Bradley's feat is the bigger problem.

The calc in question uses the perception speed of 1/220 seconds. However, that's an extreme highball, as that's the fastest we can percieve changes in images at all. This sort of speed isn't required for disappearing from sight, this is literally how fast before our brain can detect an image changing in perfect conditions (the test involved flashing a image of a fighter jet at 1/220 s in a darkroom in front of elite fighter pilots). Perception speed is extremely subjective and is dependent on contrast (especially this), brightness, spatial factors, and to a certain extent, image content (eg. fighter pilots are trained to instantly focus on and recognize enemy aircraft) - meaning that in normal situations it doesn't need to be anywhere near this fast, especially because your brain can actually be fooled by an optical illusion occurring at far lower speeds (persistence of vision).

 

[Xulrev]

As to the Marcoh feat, I don't even believe that's the best objective feat Ed has for evading gunfire or scaling to it.

His reacting to mini-gun fire objectively after it has fired (notice the wall doesn't have a shadow through the dust when he begins firing) is much superior, as well as Ed scaling to the Bradley failures (manga version here and anime version here) when the Bradley failures are at the very least bullet-reacting in the manga by intercepting bullets and outright bullet timers in the anime.

As to the proper Bradley calc, I don't see an issue with presuming someone as amazingly skilled and physically superior as Bradley would have impeccable perception speed. The man can react to and slice a cannon shell out of the air from several meters away for crying out loud, as well as his statement when leaping from the falling train that his eye grants him the sight of where he needs to move.

Just my two cents on this; Ed absolutely maintains his current speed imho if not necessitating an upgrade, and the presumptions for Bradley are sound and consistent in-verse

 

[XING06]

I've seen all the feats you've given, but all are easily within the Supersonic tiers.

The best feat is probably Ed vs Father Cornello. However, though Ed reacted after he fired, they are several meters away easily giving him enough time to react. Even if he were in extreme close range at 3 meters (extreme lowball based on the size of their shadows), that still only means he needs to clap, bend down, and touch the ground and come back up (2m movement highball). A minigun fires 7.62 rounds (810 m/s); that gives him exactly 0.0037 s to move 2 meters, which means he has to move at 540 m/s (Supersonic).

Also, I'm not talking about perception speed for Bradley. The calc is about Bradley blitzing several soldiers, without them either reacting (low-end = subsonic) or noticing him move (high-end).

The issue is that the calc uses an absolute perception speed in perfect darkroom conditions with perhaps the people with the best vision in the world (1/220 s). Several other studies have shown that the average perception in a decent lighting is instead around 13 ms (~1/75th of a second) which means that his actual speed is going to be around 3x slower. This isn't even taking into account persistence of vision, which with good timing can allow someone to create an optical illusion of disapearing at much lower speeds.

 

[Xulrev]

For Ed's calc, are you presuming a reaction speed of 0.0 seconds for him? Because from your quick calc, it seems as such.

And that's fair, I misunderstood your point. I think the Bradley point is fairly tenable.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like you should first ask for calculations of the best legitimate feats mentioned above, and then focus on a revision.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2975637

 

[XING06]

I will ask the calc group for Ed vs Father Cornello, as that's the best of the lot.

Honestly though I think we can do a revision now, I've pretty much proven both calcs (I'll talk about Marcoh's below) only give around Supersonic-Supersonic+ speed.

I just realized this but the Marcoh feat is actually comepletely wrong too. It gives a projectile speed using a .375 H&H magnum - as in a rifle round (~800 m/s). An actual revolver round, even a .44 magnum, only goes at around 450 at max. I don't even think it's a magnum looks to me like a .38 Special snubnose revolver (350 m/s max velocity). Basically, the actual speed is going to be 2x slower. Which again puts him at Supersonic+ around Bradley's supersonic speed.

@Xulrev - That is true, but that's how we do literally all of our combat speed calcs.

 

[Antvasima]

You need calculations placed in a blog to be evaluated and accepted by the calc group first.

 

[XING06]

Ok yeah I'm making the revised versions of each now.

 

[XING06]

Good news though seems like Bradley does make it into the Hypersonic tier.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, the calculation never passed through revision cuz the NF calc link was down and a new calc was needed. I think people stopped using Ed feat, but that was long ago so I can't remember, and as usual and any time I have the change I make the lowest and highest end for the calc.

I guess using 220 Hz as timeframe is kinda an exageration, so people can always use the low end. I feel good with 75 Hz then, if other members accepts it.

 

[XING06]

OK sounds good. I actually made a blog for the revised speeds, so just waiting for that to be evaluated.

Yeah perception speed is weird because it's dependent on a lot of stuff, but I think 75 hz is a good average. I believe the second study said the average was 60 Hz to around 75. The range is pretty big though from like 24 to 120 hz in fairly well lit situations.

Edit: And it has been evaluated and accepted https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:XING06/FMA_Speed_Calculations_Corrections

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that the changes can probably be applied then. Just remember to link to the speed justification calculations within the profile pages.