Flumpty Bumpty BDE 2

[ShionAH]

Transcending it doesn't mean lacking it. You can merely be on a higher level of it by ontological difference but still possess it

Thats for BDE 1. BDE 2 only needs you to not posess time and space in one plane, Flumpty here is above and lacks time and space in his plane

From BDE: "These characters aren't necessarily superior to spacetime on every level, but just within the scope which they are shown."

 

[Ikelaggan]

Transcending it doesn't mean lacking it. You can merely be on a higher level of it by ontological difference but still possess it

So you'd just be 5D by that logic.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Beyond Dimensional Existence

Ah, I see
Well, from what you're saying, this looks pretty valid

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Thats for BDE 1. BDE 2 only needs you to not posess time and space in one plane, Flumpty here is above and lacks time and space in his plane

From BDE: "These characters aren't necessarily superior to spacetime on every level, but just within the scope which they are shown."

how is that relevant to what i said?
none of the scans you provided actually meant what you argued

if he had time and spatial features he wouldnt have several origins and all of them being true wouldnt make sense
This is doesn't prove lacking it and only proves he can exist and has irregular causality.

theres infinite Flumptys inside of Flumpty proving that spatial or space does not matter to Flumpty
This doesn't mean it is irrelevant to him it doesn't even prove anything and is vague and assuming him spatial dimension means nothing to him in this context is NLF

Flumptys existence is older than time showing he doesnt need time to exist.
Timeless void exist yet they possess spatial spaces and they don't qualify for it

He is literally above time and space meaning that he cannot actually have these features,
developer explicitly only mentioned time and even made an example using groundhog day as a nutshell and such this doesn't include spatial space

It is stated that he transcends it completely
Transcending =/= lacking

Was not effected by a timeline merge and is not effected by resets of the funhouse also is the reason its a constant paradox, can travel to other dimensions by transcending these aspects, time is below him as even a fall of Flumpty can destroy it,
only proves transcendence not lacking thereof

disagree

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

So you'd just be 5D by that logic.

yes and no
that depends if they qualify enough for that tier or existence or they could just be higher dimensional on that degree but do not have the AP to actually affect a universal size of their level of existence (as to qualify for 5D AP you need to affect a 5D structure of universal size so it is possible to have HDE of 5D without being 5D in AP)

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I do wonder, before time existed, would there even be space?

 

[Testarossa002]

What's with the sudden rave about BDE 2?
This is like the 3rd BDE CRT is 24 hours

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I do wonder, before time existed, would there even be space?

Fiction makes it exist with its timeless realm and dimension so we actually have to prove that such a case isn't present in this argument and it should be compelling and convincing.
There was even a guideline on how entity or character predating something doesn't mean they are unbound by it unless proven so otherwise and such thing must elaborate on how it is.

tldr : Case by case but mostly if it is vague we can't assume a positive and negative of it and leave it at what is shown or stated

 

[ShionAH]

how is that relevant to what i said?
none of the scans you provided actually meant what you argued

if he had time and spatial features he wouldnt have several origins and all of them being true wouldnt make sense
This is doesn't prove lacking it and only proves he can exist and has irregular causality.

theres infinite Flumptys inside of Flumpty proving that spatial or space does not matter to Flumpty
This doesn't mean it is irrelevant to him it doesn't even prove anything and is vague and assuming him spatial dimension means nothing to him in this context is NLF

Flumptys existence is older than time showing he doesnt need time to exist.
Timeless void exist yet they possess spatial spaces and they don't qualify for it

He is literally above time and space meaning that he cannot actually have these features,
developer explicitly only mentioned time and even made an example using groundhog day as a nutshell and such this doesn't include spatial space

It is stated that he transcends it completely
Transcending =/= lacking

Was not effected by a timeline merge and is not effected by resets of the funhouse also is the reason its a constant paradox, can travel to other dimensions by transcending these aspects, time is below him as even a fall of Flumpty can destroy it,
only proves transcendence not lacking thereof

disagree

I disagree will respnd later

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I disagree will respnd later

using my immeasurable speed i will now respond to your response later.


No that requires too much assumption from a vague statement. It is akin to mental gymnastics to prove something that is merely a theory and wasn't directly stated nor elaborated on within the series. To assume it that way would be equivalent to NLF

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

So from I'm getting, BDE just gives Resistance to Space and Time stuff? Pretty useless power if it's just that

 

[Ikelaggan]

So from I'm getting, BDE just gives Resistance to Space and Time stuff? Pretty useless power if it's just that

I guess I can have my teir 11 vegetable with 5D physiology that's immune to space and time.

 

[Georredannea15]

BDE Type 2 must be lacking, independent and superior to both the spatial and temporal dimension, so"space-time". Not just time or timelines.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

So from I'm getting, BDE just gives Resistance to Space and Time stuff? Pretty useless power if it's just that

There was an attempt to flesh out the ability and add more stuff to it and some tier 1 expert actually tried to argue but IIRC it got forgotten

 

[ShionAH]

how is that relevant to what i said?
none of the scans you provided actually meant what you argued

You were asking me to prove Flumpty being independant of all time and space

theres infinite Flumptys inside of Flumpty proving that spatial or space does not matter to Flumpty
This doesn't mean it is irrelevant to him it doesn't even prove anything and is vague and assuming him spatial dimension means nothing to him in this context is NLF

It literally shows that Flumpty has infinite stuff inside him and this is with a limitation so without the limitation I doubt space actually works

Flumptys existence is older than time showing he doesnt need time to exist.
Timeless void exist yet they possess spatial spaces and they don't qualify for it

Spatial cannot actually exist without time, you need proof it is a timeless void and not just void

He is literally above time and space meaning that he cannot actually have these features,
developer explicitly only mentioned time and even made an example using groundhog day as a nutshell and such this doesn't include spatial space

The dev says he is above time and transcends it showing that when he says transcend he means being above something. In the game we see him say Flumpty transcends time AND space. Bad arguement

It is stated that he transcends it completely
Transcending =/= lacking

Its supporting and if I am literally above something that means I cannot have that since you know...I am above it not inside it

Was not effected by a timeline merge and is not effected by resets of the funhouse also is the reason its a constant paradox, can travel to other dimensions by transcending these aspects, time is below him as even a fall of Flumpty can destroy it,
only proves transcendence not lacking thereof

disagree

I still couldnt see an actual debunk other than "transcend!" "only time!" please give me reason why its not BDE when its obvious he is above time and space entirely and lacks them since he is literally above them a 4D character lacks 3D because he is not inside the 3D dimension

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

You were asking me to prove Flumpty being independant of all time and space

It literally shows that Flumpty has infinite stuff inside him and this is with a limitation so without the limitation I doubt space actually works

Spatial cannot actually exist without time, you need proof it is a timeless void and not just void

The dev says he is above time and transcends it showing that when he says transcend he means being above something. In the game we see him say Flumpty transcends time AND space. Bad arguement

using my immeasurable speed i will now respond to your response later.
No that requires too much assumption from a vague statement. It is akin to mental gymnastics to prove something that is merely a theory and wasn't directly stated nor elaborated on within the series. To assume it that way would be equivalent to NLF

Its supporting and if I am literally above something that means I cannot have that since you know...I am above it not inside it

You're above it correct but you still possess some form of it at a higher ontological level than what you transcend
BDE is strictly about lacking thereof. and Flumpty hasn't had any scans to directly prove that he does lack all of it
best you have is him being compared to God who existed before time and that could be interpreted in many ways you arguing its interpretation to specifically mean this is on the level of NLF and anyone could just argue otherwise and it too is a valid argument yet neither of those argument can prove itself as the scan do not explicitly support such assumption.

Also we do not assume something that is a theory existing in the verse unless the verse directly mentions and elaborates upon it the same way we don't grant being above all human knowledge which would include theories and math which would technically put it at 1-A or higher due to aleph funny magic words any tier unless said specific theory is directly mentioned or implied as existing and present

 

[Ikelaggan]

You'd honestly be better trying to argue flumpty is some form of transdual bastard since most of these BDE users are either transdual or just 1-A *****.

 

[ShionAH]

You're above it correct but you still possess some form of it at a higher ontological level than what you transcend
BDE is strictly about lacking thereof. and Flumpty hasn't had any scans to directly prove that he does lack all of it
best you have is him being compared to God who existed before time and that could be interpreted in many ways you arguing its interpretation to specifically mean this is on the level of NLF and anyone could just argue otherwise and it too is a valid argument yet neither of those argument can prove itself as the scan do not explicitly support such assumption.

Also we do not assume something that is a theory existing in the verse unless the verse directly mentions and elaborates upon it the same way we don't grant being above all human knowledge which would include theories and math which would technically put it at 1-A or higher due to aleph funny magic words any tier unless said specific theory is directly mentioned or implied as existing and present

Theres no way all of this only give resistance

 

[ShionAH]

You're above it correct but you still possess some form of it at a higher ontological level than what you transcend

No you dont, you still have it in your plane but you dont possess it if its below you

BDE is strictly about lacking thereof. and Flumpty hasn't had any scans to directly prove that he does lack all of it
best you have is him being compared to God who existed before time and that could be interpreted in many ways you arguing its interpretation to specifically mean this is on the level of NLF and anyone could just argue otherwise and it too is a valid argument yet neither of those argument can prove itself as the scan do not explicitly support such assumption.

Its not vague tf? Flumpty is older than time and existed in a place without time or space/void

Also we do not assume something that is a theory existing in the verse unless the verse directly mentions and elaborates upon it the same way we don't grant being above all human knowledge which would include theories and math which would technically put it at 1-A or higher due to aleph funny magic words any tier unless said specific theory is directly mentioned or implied as existing and present

What theory??

 

[ShionAH]

You'd honestly be better trying to argue flumpty is some form of transdual bastard since most of these BDE users are either transdual or just 1-A *****.

I mean he died and didnt die at the same time so life and death TD?

 

[ShionAH]

@TheGreatJedi13 So Yggdrasil got BDE Type 2 because it
"Every strand of Yggdrasil transcends the space and time, When Yggdrasil existed, time and space did not exist yet"
Why is Flumpty not getting it with much more proof?

 

[RaveeCPN]

"Every strand of Yggdrasil transcends the space and time, When Yggdrasil existed, time and space did not exist yet"
Why is Flumpty not getting it with much more proof?

There is more evidence for Ygdrassil. Not only these

 

[ShionAH]

There is more evidence for Ygdrassil. Not only these

For example?

 

[RaveeCPN]

For example?

Only the branches and Bifrost light, which transcend space - time and are independent, are little bits of Yggdrasil.

Also,

Realm rifts and other events affecting the 9 realms and 9 separate space-times do not affect Yggdrasil. Even its minor aspects are superior to space-time.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

There is more evidence for Ygdrassil. Not only these

"Even the |Bifrost light, which transcends the Nine Realms and predates them, is but a part of Yggdrasil"
It's basically just repeating the same thing

 

[ShionAH]

Also,

I looked at the scan the word "independent" doesnt exist

"Realm rifts and other events affecting the 9 realms and 9 separate space-times do not affect Yggdrasil. Even its minor aspects are superior to space-time."

Flumpty is also not effected by resets and space? This is biased disagreement

 

[Georredannea15]

@TheGreatJedi13 So Yggdrasil got BDE Type 2 because it
"Every strand of Yggdrasil transcends the space and time, When Yggdrasil existed, time and space did not exist yet"
Why is Flumpty not getting it with much more proof?

No. Yggdrasil did not qualify for BDE Type 2 simply because it was not affected by time or timelines. It is also superior in its spatial and temporal (space-time) dimensions, before existing and could exist in their lack, while at the same time independent and unaffected by them.

If you read the revision better and look at the links I posted, you'll understand.

There are direct statements and we have feats from the verse.

 

[ShionAH]

It is also superior in its spatial and temporal (space-time) dimensions

Flumpty is also superior and above them

before existing and could exist in their lack,

Flumpty does the SAME thing.

while at the same time independent and unaffected by them.

Theres no "independent" word there, not being effected by time is also a feat Flumpty does.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Flumpty is also not effected by resets and space? This is biased disagreement

The thing about Ygdrassil is not simply that it is unaffected by space-time destruction. Ygdrassil is a structure far superior to the 9 realms, transcending space-time and unaffected/independent of space-time changes there. For Flumpty, it's just a durability feat.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

If anything we should remove it from the Yggdrasil, but that probably needs its own thread

 

[ShionAH]

Ygdrassil is a structure far superior to the 9 realms, transcending space-time

Which is not BDE 2 according to you. Flumpty also transcends it and is above it alll

and unaffected/independent of space-time changes there.

It is unaffected but NOT independent. Thats a headcanon, Flumpty does the same exact feat

For Flumpty, it's just a durability feat.

How??

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

The thing about Ygdrassil is not simply that it is unaffected by space-time destruction. Ygdrassil is a structure far superior to the 9 realms, transcending space-time and unaffected/independent of space-time changes there. For Flumpty, it's just a durability feat.

Pretty sure being unaffeced by space-times changes could be attributed to it transcending said space-time, not really lacking it

 

[RaveeCPN]

If anything we should remove it from the Yggdrasil

If you can't understand the difference between a simple durability feat and actual independence, it doesn't mean those CRTs are wrong

 

[RaveeCPN]

Pretty sure being unaffeced by space-times changes could be attributed to it transcending said space-time, not really lacking it

Yeah, I guess that's another way of saying "I don't know what tf Ygdrassil is".

 

[Georredannea15]

Flumpty is also superior and above them

Flumpty does the SAME thing.

Theres no "independent" word there, not being effected by time is also a feat Flumpty does.

Being independent has come with success from the game. Also, if you look at Mimir's statements, you can see that Yggdrasil exists in the absence of space and time, in short, in the absence of spatial and temporal dimensions. But your only statement is to be independent of and unaffected by timelines. These alone are not enough.,

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Yeah, I guess that's another way of saying "I don't know what tf Ygdrassil is".

I mean, you're not wrong lol
Still, its profile needs better justification if it actually qualifies

 

[ShionAH]

Being independent has come with success from the game.

Scan?

Also, if you look at Mimir's statements, you can see that Yggdrasil exists in the absence of space and time, in short, in the absence of spatial and temporal dimensions. But your only statement is to be independent of and unaffected by timelines. These alone are not enough.

No? Flumpty existed before time was even a think which means he was born in the void just like yggdrasil.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

@TheGreatJedi13 So Yggdrasil got BDE Type 2 because it
"Every strand of Yggdrasil transcends the space and time, When Yggdrasil existed, time and space did not exist yet"
Why is Flumpty not getting it with much more proof?

Don't bring whataboutism into this
your scans explicitly only mentions time
for you to assume to say it also includes space without a direct mention that Time and Space are dualities that must exist together is NLF

 

[ShionAH]

Don't bring whataboutism into this

I will bring it. Just like how they bringed Rimuru here

your scans explicitly only mentions time
for you to assume to say it also includes space without a direct mention that Time and Space are dualities that must exist together is NLF

Nope you need to prove its a timeless void and not a void. This was discussed in the Alien X thing too, timeless voids need proof or we just assume theres no space and time

If time isnt there then space is also not there without further proof

 

[RaveeCPN]

Scan?

Read that CRT