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Flowey fights the Grim Reaper (Flowey vs Lavender) (1-5-0)

FarerPurple said:
if he got his determination sapped, he'd be pushed back a save (basically it'd push him back to the last time he saved before his current one), not exactly losing his ability to save and reset entirely.

this happened with him and sans, as he states sans caused 'his fair share of resets', not loads. meaning he lost his willpower vs sans multiple times. so him getting sapped would be a psuedo-BFR of flowey as it'd push him away from the save that would be in the area.
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This kinda would be a true reset, even if she lost all determination, flowey will come back to the moment It gained determination, but makes sense(similar to whem you reset the entire game to do a new save file)
 
FarerPurple said:
incap... a flower? you realize if she tries to incapacitate flowey he'll just ******* die from it. his durability sucks ass from being a literal flower, so unless she has ways to incapacitate him without doing physical harm to him i dont see that happening.
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Durability: At least Wall level, possibly Small Building level (Should scale to his own magic)

She drains willpower with attacks and can put him to sleep
FarerPurple said:
and lets say it does happen, what stops him from loading or resetting? Lavender would have to willpower drain flowey so many times to a point he'd be sent back so far he wouldn't be able to come back in combat applicable timing. she can basically one shot him, so the only way im seeing Lavender winning is abusing that by willpower draining + one-shotting until he's sent back too far to come back in combat applicable time
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Why would he load and reset if he has no willpower left? Logically, he's lost all will to fight if she drains it away.
 
Armorchompy said:
Why would he load and reset if he has no willpower left? Logically, he's lost all will to fight if she drains it away.
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The thing is, even withotu determination flower would come back to It's creation if killed(at least is implied to, with the beingh defeated by sans and resets) so Lavander need to know It can't kill Flowey
 
JustANormalLemon said:
The thing is, even withotu determination flower would come back to It's creation if killed(at least is implied to, with the beingh defeated by sans and resets) so Lavander need to know It can't kill Flowey
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... But why would he do that. He's out of willpower. He doesn't wanna fight anymore. He'd just sit there being a sad sack, and Lavender wouldn't even kill him, she'd just leave.
 
Armorchompy said:
... But why would he do that. He's out of willpower. He doesn't wanna fight anymore. He'd just sit there being a sad sack, and Lavender wouldn't even kill him, she'd just leave.
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Beacuse they are alrad fighting, Lavander would see a flower taht was atacking It and be like "ok, time for the finishing blow" flower lost the will to fight, not lavander
 
I already explained that she wouldn't kill unless carrying out her duties as a grim reaper.
 
She doesn't know that lol. Plus her task is to kill ghosts that have gone berserk and lost their sentience, and Flowey is neither a ghost nor animalistic. Genuinely I don't think she'd be mentally capable of killing a thinking being unless in extremely dire circumstances
 
Armorchompy said:
She doesn't know that lol. Plus her task is to kill ghosts that have gone berserk and lost their sentience, and Flowey is neither a ghost nor animalistic. Genuinely I don't think she'd be mentally capable of killing a thinking being unless in extremely dire circumstances
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hum... ok, I was going to say Information Analysis with Observe could make her know It, but if that's so. the only thing I can say is that flowey don't even have feelings and is a sociopath thanks to that
 
JustANormalLemon said:
hum... ok, I was going to say Information Analysis with Observe could make her know It, but if that's so. the only thing I can say is that flowey don't even have feelings and is a sociopath thanks to that
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That doesn't matter bro she's like a teenage girl who days before becoming a reaper was living a normal life, she's not just gonna ice someone cause he's an asshole or "deserves" to die via some arbitrary metrics.
 
Armorchompy said:
Durability: At least Wall level, possibly Small Building level (Should scale to his own magic)
Click to expand...
Wrong key.
Armorchompy said:
Why would he load and reset if he has no willpower left? Logically, he's lost all will to fight if she drains it away.
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Because you'd need to drain him a shit ton of times for that to happen. both frisk and flowey have shown their wills to be ******* huge, to a point where nobody could surpass them (undyne nor the amalgamates could surpass flowey's determination, and the amalgamates vary from 2-6 people all with determination injected into them). getting a bit of it sapped wont stop him. if anything it'll motivate him more to end this fight quicker.
 
JustANormalLemon said:
Lol, looping, the more he loses determination, more deermination he gains? lol, don't think It works like that
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Nah, i mean the second he notices him getting his willpower drained, he's gonna notice. but its not gonna do much to him. Flowey has more than enough willpower to spare that, what you said is kind of true. he can in a way get back said stolen willpower pretty easily. frisk is able to rapidly get more determination and willpower for different events. to such a point they were able to tank hits from Asriel at the end of the same through just determination. (this is no way saying Flowey could do the same, but them having the same ability should mean that Flowey should be capable of 'amping' his determination and willpower rapidly as well, almost negating their willpower stealing ability.)

he won't actively gain more determination from losing it, but rather it's more like a wake-up to get this shit done faster and not toy with his opponent as he did with frisk.
 
Originlima said:
Then he will be stuck in (whatever place he was in after death).

Incap.

But, Flowey can RESET even if Flowey lost will to live.
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except that its literally in his weakness section he's sent back a save, not lose the ability to reset and load. so that incap scenario isn't even possible.
 
FarerPurple said:
Nah, i mean the second he notices him getting his willpower drained, he's gonna notice. but its not gonna do much to him. Flowey has more than enough willpower to spare that, what you said is kind of true. he can in a way get back said stolen willpower pretty easily. frisk is able to rapidly get more determination and willpower for different events. to such a point they were able to tank hits from Asriel at the end of the same through just determination. (this is no way saying Flowey could do the same, but them having the same ability should mean that Flowey should be capable of 'amping' his determination and willpower rapidly as well, almost negating their willpower stealing ability.)

he won't actively gain more determination from losing it, but rather it's more like a wake-up to get this shit done faster and not toy with his opponent as he did with frisk.
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Hum... I would say Frisk can do It thanks to supernatural willpower and his emotions giving him determination, but in genocide run the text boxes whem he saves become just "determination" so generate more determination as frisk fight isn't so far fetch, makes sense....

so the battle Is, Flowey respawing after beingh oneshoted until getting a win vs Lavander one time rawdonly absorbing flowey entire poll ove will power without killing It once
 
Originlima said:
Then he will be at very start.

In Laboratory.
Click to expand...
this can be considered a BFR if you don't forget that sinse the fight started in the future, Flowey can still come back to the fight before the 24 hours timer ends, sinse going back to the past would work as a extending the BFR timer.... this is dumb, let's ignore It and say It count as defeating flowey... Lavander still need to take out Flowey entire poll of determination, that is preety big and can "regenerate"
 
JustANormalLemon said:
this can be considered a BFR if you don't forget that sinse the fight started in the future, Flowey can still come back to the fight before the 24 hours timer ends, sinse going back to the past would work as a extending the BFR timer.... this is dumb, let's ignore It and say It count as defeating flowey... Lavander still need to take out Flowey entire poll of determination, that is preety big and can "regenerate"
Click to expand...
it wouldn't extend the time. he'd have 24 hours from the period he died and came back to get back to the fight, which by SBA he has saves at the battlefield meaning he can get back to fighting fairly easy even if he's sent back a save or two.
 
Jackythejack said:
I don't think that argument is super viable considering he like, only did that to monsters.
Click to expand...
and he had absorbed the other human souls first

FarerPurple said:
it wouldn't extend the time. he'd have 24 hours from the period he died and came back to get back to the fight, which by SBA he has saves at the battlefield meaning he can get back to fighting fairly easy even if he's sent back a save or two.
Click to expand...
he wouldn't be send some saves back, this don't exist on loads, he would be forced to use reset if laking determination
 
JustANormalLemon said:
he wouldn't be send some saves back, this don't exist on loads, he would be forced to use reset if laking determination
Click to expand...
He was only ever fully reset in an extreme case vs sans, every other time it happened to him he was sent back to a previous save. flowey would need to e pushed FAR MORE than she can shove in this fight for that to happen, as willpower absorption alone isn't gonna do that for him.
 
Lavender's "body" is made of her spirit, which is a third part of humans unrelated to both soul and body. Flowey wouldn't be able to absorb her.

Anyway I strongly disagree that Flowey would be oneshot by Lavender, she can very well hold back the power of her blows and probably would given that, again, unwilling to kill, and he's got pretty great stamina. She'd also be capable of draining his willpower by poisoning him, which is not AP-based.

She is also able to put him to sleep, lol
 
He is, but hurt ain't absorb, and her physiology is unlike anything in Undertale
 
Armorchompy said:
He is, but hurt ain't absorb, and her physiology is unlike anything in Undertale
Click to expand...
yeah thats cool and all but he absorbed mad dummy and mettaton, who are both ghosts. but he doesn't even lead with absorption unless he's photoshop flowey or asriel, so doesn't even matter.
Armorchompy said:
Anyway I strongly disagree that Flowey would be oneshot by Lavender, she can very well hold back the power of her blows and probably would given that, again, unwilling to kill, and he's got pretty great stamina. She'd also be capable of draining his willpower by poisoning him, which is not AP-based.
Click to expand...
The only times you can hit flowey in his base, he dies instantly. if all she's going to do is Willpower drain him then this fight will never go into Lavender's favor. i already explained he can attain more willpower and determination on the spot, making their willpower absorb incapable of incapping him.
 
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