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Fixing Warcraft (Pt. 1)
- Thread starter Mr. Bambu
- Start date
Mr. Bambu
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Yes. But the sandbox still exists. You can click, by "Edit", the little arrow, then choose "History". From there you just need to find it. Good luck.
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How's this going right now? Bump*
Mr. Bambu
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I believe we have most of the tiers in place, and certainly those for important characters. Personally just been working on other stuff (D&D, Nioh) since I had to go through and fix the profiles from last time.
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So I'm bumping this since apparently it's the place where we discuss this verse's feats...
This is an inconsistant verse I'll admit, but I found some feats that not only sound rather consistent when all put together, but also some being directly related to lore .
4-C - High 4-C :
Rukhran can absorb the sun's power and unleash it
Illidan can release the power of a collapsing star
After all, night elves are known for their affinity with the cosmic energies of the Well of Eternity .
As a sorcerer mind you, not as a demon hunter in which he is a far stronger (he can fight LK and Kil'Jaeden after all).
The Fel Annihilator which Velen has fought can detonate with the force of a collapsing star
4-B - 4-A :
The Nightwell allows Etraeus to draw upon the essence of the worlds of the Great Dark Beyond and is seen to distord stars
The Nightwell = Sunwell which was created by the energy of the Well of Eternity which again has cosmic power, correlating to the aformentioned feat.
Deathwing created Ultraxion who can unleash the power of the realm of twilight which contains stars
The Sha of Fear made the Dread Expanse, a realm seen to have stars
Deathwing is stronger than Arygos even after the latter would have gained absolute control over the realm of magic (so, the Eye of Eternity which has stars in it)
Ra-den and Helya created the Elemental Plane which is seen to have stars in Deepholm It should be noted that those stars are more than likely spawned by N'zoth as it's the circle of stars, but that also mean those keepers made a realm large enough to contain them.
Rajh can unleash the fury of a thousands suns upon Azeroth (a mere statement, but when combined with the other feats it can be legit)
4-A to High 3-A or Low 2-C :
Ny'alotha is a city in an alternate world, on the other side of the veil of reality and N'zoth rips this veil, bringing nightmares and visions in the normal world [3:21 - 3:55]
The world in which N'zoth resides in is an alternate reality and this one is the reflexion of the manifestations of all of N'zoth ambitions [4:45 - 4:55]
We can more or less see that if he were to succeed he would transform the universe into some sort of twilight chaos, with dark energy bigger than stars.
This reality is the mind of N'zoth, which despite this is a place where we physically enter, a reality that seeks to manifest into the other and is yet again stated to be alternative (the normal universe being stated numerous times to be infinite). [7:17 - 7:25]
Here we can see more stars : [7:54 - 8:14]
There's a reference to darkness and infinite depths , which should be a reference to N'zoth's world.
FTL speed :
As it's already demonstrated on Deathwing's page, he erupted from Deepholm by bursting through the Elemental Plane which would mean he crossed those stars (hell, that might even be why there's a huge hole towards some space in deepholm).
Legion spaceships can cross stars and are empowered by fel energy to do so, and Kil'jaeden and Archimonde are the most powerful demons in the verse which use such energy.
N'zoth's feat would likely only concerns the Old Gods within their realm than something anyone else could scale except the Void Lords.
The Lich King being Kil'jaeden's greatest making and the fact he holds part of the latter's power should make him scale. Only for Arthas though, Bolvar is an impostor and couldn't use the helmet's power well.
Also, one last thing that should definitely be added is a key for Illidan in which he is at the titanic pantheon as Sargeras' gaoler. There is no way in hell he doesn't scale to Sargeras even just a little by that point, that would be ridiculous.
This website use differents keys and versions mostly for manga characters like "post-time skip" or comics where characters are ranked depending on the story they're in and which writer wrote it. I think it can be used even in a heavy lore-based verse. That would at least fix some inconsistancies anyways. ... While of course keeping a minimum of common sense when it come to hierarchical ranking, putting for exemple Arthas the Lich King at any tier below Velen or Khadgar would be... you know...
Any thoughts ?
This is an inconsistant verse I'll admit, but I found some feats that not only sound rather consistent when all put together, but also some being directly related to lore .
4-C - High 4-C :
Rukhran can absorb the sun's power and unleash it
Illidan can release the power of a collapsing star
After all, night elves are known for their affinity with the cosmic energies of the Well of Eternity .
As a sorcerer mind you, not as a demon hunter in which he is a far stronger (he can fight LK and Kil'Jaeden after all).
The Fel Annihilator which Velen has fought can detonate with the force of a collapsing star
4-B - 4-A :
The Nightwell allows Etraeus to draw upon the essence of the worlds of the Great Dark Beyond and is seen to distord stars
The Nightwell = Sunwell which was created by the energy of the Well of Eternity which again has cosmic power, correlating to the aformentioned feat.
Deathwing created Ultraxion who can unleash the power of the realm of twilight which contains stars
The Sha of Fear made the Dread Expanse, a realm seen to have stars
Deathwing is stronger than Arygos even after the latter would have gained absolute control over the realm of magic (so, the Eye of Eternity which has stars in it)
Ra-den and Helya created the Elemental Plane which is seen to have stars in Deepholm It should be noted that those stars are more than likely spawned by N'zoth as it's the circle of stars, but that also mean those keepers made a realm large enough to contain them.
Rajh can unleash the fury of a thousands suns upon Azeroth (a mere statement, but when combined with the other feats it can be legit)
4-A to High 3-A or Low 2-C :
Ny'alotha is a city in an alternate world, on the other side of the veil of reality and N'zoth rips this veil, bringing nightmares and visions in the normal world [3:21 - 3:55]
The world in which N'zoth resides in is an alternate reality and this one is the reflexion of the manifestations of all of N'zoth ambitions [4:45 - 4:55]
We can more or less see that if he were to succeed he would transform the universe into some sort of twilight chaos, with dark energy bigger than stars.
This reality is the mind of N'zoth, which despite this is a place where we physically enter, a reality that seeks to manifest into the other and is yet again stated to be alternative (the normal universe being stated numerous times to be infinite). [7:17 - 7:25]
Here we can see more stars : [7:54 - 8:14]
There's a reference to darkness and infinite depths , which should be a reference to N'zoth's world.
FTL speed :
As it's already demonstrated on Deathwing's page, he erupted from Deepholm by bursting through the Elemental Plane which would mean he crossed those stars (hell, that might even be why there's a huge hole towards some space in deepholm).
Legion spaceships can cross stars and are empowered by fel energy to do so, and Kil'jaeden and Archimonde are the most powerful demons in the verse which use such energy.
N'zoth's feat would likely only concerns the Old Gods within their realm than something anyone else could scale except the Void Lords.
The Lich King being Kil'jaeden's greatest making and the fact he holds part of the latter's power should make him scale. Only for Arthas though, Bolvar is an impostor and couldn't use the helmet's power well.
Also, one last thing that should definitely be added is a key for Illidan in which he is at the titanic pantheon as Sargeras' gaoler. There is no way in hell he doesn't scale to Sargeras even just a little by that point, that would be ridiculous.
This website use differents keys and versions mostly for manga characters like "post-time skip" or comics where characters are ranked depending on the story they're in and which writer wrote it. I think it can be used even in a heavy lore-based verse. That would at least fix some inconsistancies anyways. ... While of course keeping a minimum of common sense when it come to hierarchical ranking, putting for exemple Arthas the Lich King at any tier below Velen or Khadgar would be... you know...
Any thoughts ?
Udlmaster
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I can see a strong argument for the rest, but I remain very unconvinced on the front of N'zoth possessing an Infinite realm.
I disagree with it because the only argument for it would be that one random human says there's endless darkness.
Even then, if we simply accept the point, it's all in his mind, meaning it's a very good intelligence feat, but nothing more.
I disagree with it because the only argument for it would be that one random human says there's endless darkness.
Even then, if we simply accept the point, it's all in his mind, meaning it's a very good intelligence feat, but nothing more.
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Rukhran: This feels more like it absorbs solar energy like a solar panel, rather than it literally absorbs all of the energy of a sun.
Illidan: My main issue with this is twofold: rule of cool, and lack of backing. It seems like a case where that description might have been added simply to make it sound more epic, and the feat doesn't really have any ground to stand on in terms of the game. Illidan has no other lore surrounding this- it isn't like Archimonde's flavor text, which is just based on him nuking planets, something we hear about relatively often. It's just a random statement that disappears as quickly as it appears. I don't find it to be solid because of this.
Fel Annihilator: This just sounds like an intimidation strategy, unless there's some further context.
Nzoth: Yeah that isn't really solid, see Udl's statement.
Etraeus: This doesn't show distorted stars, at best you could argue 5-B but, to be frank, drawing on the energy of a source does not scale you to a source. My lamp isn't 7-B since it draws on a nuclear generator. "Cosmic power" also doesn't mean anything without elaboration.
All the stars in the sky stuff: Iffy on any of this scaling for a few reasons as well. The first thing I should mention is, people still aren't 100% on making those feats actually scale to AP, last I heard a thread was in the works to nuke creation featsagai. With that aside, I think a lot of this is nuked by A. not all explicitly being their own creations/their own realms, and B. a lot of it being an over-time-and-possibly-not-all-their-own-power type deals. I don't find the starry sky stuff to be valid.
FTL: I mean. No? For Deathwing at least there are dozens of explanations that afford a more logical possibility.
Legion ships can probably manage something but I'm not sure they're actually FTL considering the breadth of time it takes them to travel and that they used portals to access many places.
Illidan: My main issue with this is twofold: rule of cool, and lack of backing. It seems like a case where that description might have been added simply to make it sound more epic, and the feat doesn't really have any ground to stand on in terms of the game. Illidan has no other lore surrounding this- it isn't like Archimonde's flavor text, which is just based on him nuking planets, something we hear about relatively often. It's just a random statement that disappears as quickly as it appears. I don't find it to be solid because of this.
Fel Annihilator: This just sounds like an intimidation strategy, unless there's some further context.
Nzoth: Yeah that isn't really solid, see Udl's statement.
Etraeus: This doesn't show distorted stars, at best you could argue 5-B but, to be frank, drawing on the energy of a source does not scale you to a source. My lamp isn't 7-B since it draws on a nuclear generator. "Cosmic power" also doesn't mean anything without elaboration.
All the stars in the sky stuff: Iffy on any of this scaling for a few reasons as well. The first thing I should mention is, people still aren't 100% on making those feats actually scale to AP, last I heard a thread was in the works to nuke creation feats
FTL: I mean. No? For Deathwing at least there are dozens of explanations that afford a more logical possibility.
Legion ships can probably manage something but I'm not sure they're actually FTL considering the breadth of time it takes them to travel and that they used portals to access many places.
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N'zoth's feat is legit, it's just not an infinite universe. Literally the whole 8.3 patch's plot (and raid) is about N'zoth creating a new dimension to replace our own.
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Somebody should ask Myriadofmemes to comment here. I think that he knows a lot about Warcraft.
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There's a black hole (not a literal one) in the middle of the stars which are seen being pulled higher, maybe if it was a gif it would be clearer. Also it's not necessarily about Etraeus and Elisande themselves, Gul'dan is the one who had the power of the Eye of Aman'thul which created this Nightwell, and Kil'jaeden remains superior to him for instance. It has cosmic power because in the same scan it explains that it draws power from the Great Dark Beyond.
Since it's an alternate reality, of which the normal reality is infinite in size, shouldn't it be infinite too (and that'd be supported by that one statement) ? Also monsters like the faceless ones come from Ny'alotha to the normal world, sounds like a physical place (just one that happens to be eldricht in nature).
If we look during the final fight in the tomb of Sargeras, the spaceship is crossing stars in the twisting nether.
By the way it'd take more than a planetary explosion to slow Khadgar dow , not sure if that's even quantifiable but it's still worth noting.
Also Deathwing made the Emerald Dream tremble
Since it's an alternate reality, of which the normal reality is infinite in size, shouldn't it be infinite too (and that'd be supported by that one statement) ? Also monsters like the faceless ones come from Ny'alotha to the normal world, sounds like a physical place (just one that happens to be eldricht in nature).
If we look during the final fight in the tomb of Sargeras, the spaceship is crossing stars in the twisting nether.
By the way it'd take more than a planetary explosion to slow Khadgar dow , not sure if that's even quantifiable but it's still worth noting.
Also Deathwing made the Emerald Dream tremble
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Myriad's account has been globally deactivated by user choice, it seems.
Okay. That is too bad. Maybe MasterOfArda then?
Okay. That is too bad. Maybe MasterOfArda then?
Mr. Bambu
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Alrighty. We (me and Udl) have worked to moderate this mostly to my tastes. I think what we have so far is justified and now we're mostly working to smooth out any issues with individual characters we've run into (namely that current Old Gods need downgraded since nothing they have is actually 5-B).
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