Warcraft revisions

[DaReaperMan]

ugh, this is ganna be a pain in the ass isnt it? anyways i will include Nathanos in this just for a baseline on his page.

Thrall:

Tier/ap/dura/SS: Small city level+? i mean yeah that would work for a warcraft 3 thrall key and maybe wow wotLK thrall but thrall stopped a city leveling tidal wave(from jaina) and fought the High 6-B Deathwing, though that should only be with the dragon soul and dura shouldn't change for this, and a possibly 6-C might be fine for cata/wod/legion thrall though small city level should be for BFA thrall.

Speed: Subsonic scaling to Illidan

Stamina: High(can fight long battles with the alliance and the burning legion, and should also be far superior to most humans)

Powers and abilities: Elemental Manipulation(Electricity, fire, air, earth, and water), Healing(at least high-low with shamanism) (scales above weaker shamans), Resistance to: Mind Manipulation(resists mind control from priests), Fear Manipulation(unaffected by fear spells), extreme heats with shamanism(can hold magma in his hands and can be in Northrend for extended periods of time) | all previous to a higher degree | all previous to a far higher degree(should be far stronger with the elements then before) with Energy projection(uses the dragon soul as a weapon)(if im missing something here let me know) | Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Enhanced Senses, Expert Hammer and Axe Wielder (i know so sad but Thrall doesnt have shaman abilities anymore, least i dont think so)

Weaknesses: If the elements are harmed he has an extremely hard time using his shamanistic powers | same as before | same as before, the Dragon Soul has a massive charge time and Thrall must charge it for it to fire | none notable

Arthas Menethil/The Lich King:

Tier/ap/dura/ss: At Least Low 7-B for base paladin arthas(comperable to Thrall), then makes the tier jump to At least 7-B, possibly 6-C(one-shot Uther the Lightbringer), then lands to High 6-B, likely higher(is superior to Malygos and a heavily weakened Yogg-Saron)

Powers and Abilities: first key is whatever, he has holy manipulation, healing(high-low), and superhuman physical charatiristics, no reason to change it. Immortality: get the hell rid of type 6(thats possession not type 6.) and add on type 2(scales to inferior undead), also add on blood manipulation(its a DK spec, Arthas is a DK, no duh) and... i have no more problems with the main powers suprisingly, everything is where it should be, now Arthas should have: resistance to Mind Manipulation(resists mind control and the Jailor should resist the powers of most denizens of the maw, this includes all types of empathatic manipulation), Fear Manipulation(resists fear spells), Transmutation(is unnafected by polymorph), and thats all she wrote there!

LS: at least Superhuman, likely class 1, nothing else for arthas, lets move on!

Stamina: Limitless, hes a warcraft undead which by default have this

Malyos and the other Dragon Aspects:

resistance to Mind Manipulation and Fear maniplation(do i even have to explain these two anymore?)

Intelligence: mentally unstable? not really anymore, he regained most of his sanity when he straight up absorbed the nether drakes that were brought to the nexus when they tried to take it over(make that limited absorption by the way) he should know all there is to know about arcane magic, unknown for every intelligence(except for Deathwing of course.) should be fine.

Lifting strength: at least class 25, possibly class T(needs to be able to move and through scaling to deathwing respectively), this applies to ALL dragon aspects

Speed: at least Subsonic(should be far superior to Illidan)

Galakrond: oh boy!

Powers and abilities: Flight!?!?!? Galakrond is too fat to fly anymore!, Type 2 Large Size(the dragon aspects should have type 1 or 2 each, so there)

Speed: At Least Subsonic(should be comparable to the Dragon Aspects

Lifting strength: all right, dwarfing all 5 dragon aspects combined is quite the feat, and ive already established that Galakrond should have type 2 large size, this gives Galakrond Class K or M, possibly class T through size alone and scaling to Deathwing respectively.

Kel'thuzad:

Tier/ap/dura: At least 7-B, possibly 6-C(comperable to Champion of the Lich King Arthas)

Striking Strength: WHAT. Kel'thuzad has NEVER been seen attacking physically and hes a magic caster. unkown.

Classification: Archlich of Naxxramas, Lich Lord of the Plaguelands, Commander of the Dread Necropolis, Master and founder of the Cult of the Damned, Formerly of the Council of Six, Summoner of Archimonde the Defiler, The Betrayer of Humanity, Hearthstone Enthusiast, and Majordomo to the Lich King (you know why)

resistance to mind, extreme tempuratures, and fear manip

Tirion:

Tier/ap/ss: at least 7-B, High 6-B with Ashbringer, High 6-B Durabiltiy(can take hits from Lich King Arthas)

Stamina: Very High(fights long battle against the scourge and is comperable to Bolvar who withstood long torture from Arthas

Intelligence: Unknown? Gifted, Tirion literally displays the requirements for gifted on the Intelligence page.

Range: Standard meele range normally, Extended meele range with the Ashbringer

Lifting Strength: at least peak human

resistance to mind, extreme tempuratures, and fear manip

Bolvar: second key goes High 6-B due to being comparable to arthas(though he is weaker)

Cenarius: why is his second key NOT 7-B again? thats my only nitpick here.

Titans and Void Lords: why are they 4-B? what feats support 4-B? theyre pretty solid 5-A or High 5-A.

Old Gods: what I want done is here

Nathanos Blightcaller: i did say i would put a baseline for him, lets go!

Name: Nathanos Blightcaller, formally Nathanos Marris

Gender: male

Age: unknown

Classification: Champion of the Banshee Queen

Tier/AP/Dura/SS: At least 7-B, likely 6-C(was able to fight Night Warrior Tyrande who should at least be comparable to Sylvanus who beat Bolvar, though he is nowhere near as powerful as Tyrande, and thus doesn't truly scale to her.)

Speed: at least Subsonic(comperable to Illidan

LS: at least peak human

Intelligence: Gifted fighter, above average otherwise

Range: Extended meele range with axes, dozens of meters with bow

Stamina: Limitless(is an undead in Warcraft, which have limitless stamina)

Standard Equipment: his axes and bow

Powers and abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Axe and Bow Mastery, Immortality(type 1,2, and 7), Poison and Disease manipulation via Plague(usually on arrows), Necromancy(can create mindless undead servants), Status Effect Inducement(stunning), master marksman(was allowed into the elven rangers even though he was human on account of his abilities), resistance to mind, extreme tempuratures, and fear manip

whew, thats all, just one more thing: most of not all of Warcraft should be Subsonic or MFTL+ just via scaling alone, nothing else to add here though.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Scans. Give.

 

[DaReaperMan]

i dont own the books, your at a tough break there, and outside of the undead in Warcraft having limitless stamina(they dont tire, at all.) and just linking you to various warcraft 3 crap i dont have much for you, ive contacted Mr. Bambu who is far more versed(heh) in the topic then i am.

 

[Daddybrawl]

So how do you expect a CRT to work without knowing the proper Source Material, then?

 

[DaReaperMan]

So how do you expect a CRT to work without knowing the proper Source Material, then?

I know the source material, I've memorised it, i don't have it to give to you is what I'm saying.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Can’t make a proper CRT without source material cheif.Without justifications from the books,it won’t be a valid addition.

 

[Hellbeast]

While I'm here I know there are good Tier 6 feats

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

link em

 

[Hellbeast]

Bambu knows what I mean but it;s stuff like Gul-Dan creating islands

I also saw tons of calcs offsite to find

 

[DaReaperMan]

to be specific on tier 6 feats, Ragnaros devastating parts of a continent and Malygos making Azeroths crust go byebye, also do i REALLY need to grab footage of someone trying to use mind control and fear on a god damn raid boss? or explain that being in the north pole and holding magma in ones hands is an extreme tempurature? or justify us just LOOKING at this damn dragon ten times the size of a normal dragon(already at least type 0 large size) being type 1 large size? thats basically all im doing here outside of the holy lord of scaling and saying that an undead in Warcraft dont need rest(see the scourge for examples everywhere) and has

Type 1,2, and 7 immortality(look at the image if you don't believe me, that's a low-tier undead fwi) is readjusting characters into already long-accepted tiers.

 

[Antvasima]

@EmperorRorepme @AntorusTheBurningThrone @Colonel_Krukov @Mr._Bambu @DnW0 @Udlmaster

What do you think about this?

 

[Udlmaster]

Well, I made a profile for the Lich King, it's slightly off, me and Bambu are gonna sort it out when we get a chance to (Ignore that it says D&D): https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Udlmaster/The_Lich_King_(Dungeon_and_Dragons)

Nathanos would scale to Pre-Jailor Sylvanas, possibly making an argument he scales to her at the beginning of Legion/BFA as his body made him stronger.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well, I made a profile for the Lich King, it's slightly off, me and Bambu are gonna sort it out when we get a chance to (Ignore that it says D&D): https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Udlmaster/The_Lich_King_(Dungeon_and_Dragons)

Nathanos would scale to Pre-Jailor Sylvanas, possibly making an argument he scales to her at the beginning of Legion/BFA as his body made him stronger.

we cant use TCG things for arthas sadly, it sucks honestly...

i agree with that, but sylvanas isnt someone i know enough about to make a page on, Nathanos is someone i know enough about and since he doesnt have much hax out of the ordinary for a forsaken not much to do with him, he just scales to everyone else on most stats and should scale decently to Sylvanus(which at that time period was already more powerful then champion of the lich king arthas and was far stronger then him. thats my opinion anyway

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Tier 6 feats we currently have called (in no particular order):

• Neptulon created a tidal wave that dwarfed Therazane's mountain holdings. (High 6-C+ accepted end)
• Ra split the heavens to see off the Titans when they left Azeroth. (6-B+ accepted end)
• Tuure lit up the world (NOTE: the revised/corrected version is in the comments). (High 6-B end)
• Malygos uses the Nexus to shatter the crust of the world. (High 6-B/6-A end)

Feats I am 100% certain are Tier 6 but can't be calculated with good accuracy (trust me, I've tried on some of these):

• Freya carved out multiple world-zones at some point, including Sholozar Basin and Un'Goro Crater.
• Deathwing's cataclysm came damn near to destroying the entire world.
• Gul'dan and his allies rose the Broken Isles out from the sea floor.
• Medivh created the beetle that would eventually become Beetle Island.
• The Well of Eternity's destruction caused a huge continental space to be dragged under the water, and left behind only the Maelstrom, a permanent raging whirlpool in the center of the world.

I could go on, but aye, Tier 6 works. I'd like to get those last two unaccepted calcs checked on- if all goes as planned, after overlooking them, I'd wager 6-A Dragon Aspects and largely 6-B/High 6-B everyone else is consistent. Also, yes, Ragnaros devastating the land is well known, but I believe that's already used on the profiles, so I didn't bother going into detail on him.

Also, for the record, Udl and I have spoken about the tabletop in the past- we're both aware it isn't canon, and I've begrudgingly accepted that it can't be used even if it would help a lot for clearer scaling chains. So the Lich King profile listed above would likely need severe modification.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I could go on, but aye, Tier 6 works. I'd like to get those last two unaccepted calcs checked on- if all goes as planned, after overlooking them, I'd wager 6-A Dragon Aspects and largely 6-B/High 6-B everyone else is consistent. Also, yes, Ragnaros devastating the land is well known, but I believe that's already used on the profiles, so I didn't bother going into detail on him.

if those tiers are good then im ganna have to change the tiering on this CRT big time...

 

[Hellbeast]

Also while I'm here

Is Archimonde even Tier 5?

I'm no expert but the desription for his planet feat mentions destroying the crust

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also while I'm here

Is Archimonde even Tier 5?

I'm no expert but the desription for his planet feat mentions destroying the crust

If I recall the most powerful eradar/drenei are planet busters, this probably doesn't scale to durability however. Whichever the case Archimonde scales to Kil'Jaden who tasked hits from artifact weapons some of which are confirmed planet busters, so just roll with that.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Also while I'm here

Is Archimonde even Tier 5?

I'm no expert but the desription for his planet feat mentions destroying the crust

Archimonde really should be 5-B. Not only do random nameless Eredar destroy planets, he's responsible for the state of Draenor (e.g., the Outlands).

 

[Hellbeast]

Sounds fair, in that case who scales to him?

 

[DaReaperMan]

he's responsible for the state of Draenor (e.g., the Outlands).

uh... wasnt that Ner'Zul with prep and hundreds of portals? and like 3 different artifacts? and then when he went through a portal Kil'Jaden was like "nah son, im ganna torture ya and turn you into the lich king!

 

[M2B3]

Archimonde really should be 5-B. Not only do random nameless Eredar destroy planets, he's responsible for the state of Draenor (e.g., the Outlands).

How many times have we discussed, how many time have I debunked this and how many times have staff members agreed with me at this point? Five or something?

 

[DaReaperMan]

also who scales to Archimonde is the following: Kil'Jaden and Prophet Velen. literally nobody else scales to archimonde.

 

[DaReaperMan]

How many times have we discussed, how many time have I debunked this and how many times have staff members agreed with me at this point? Five or something?

still doesnt change scaling to Kil'Jaden, some artifact weapons are planet busters and Kil'Jaden tanks that shit like its nothing for awhile. and since by default unless proven otherwise durability and AP scale to eachother yes, Archimonde should be 5-B

 

[M2B3]

still doesnt change scaling to Kil'Jaden, some artifact weapons are planet busters and Kil'Jaden tanks that shit like its nothing for awhile. and since by default unless proven otherwise durability and AP scale to eachother yes, Archimonde should be 5-B

KJ doesn't tank anything resembling that at any point, neither does Velen scale to sargeras empowered KJ and Archi

 

[DaReaperMan]

KJ doesn't tank anything resembling that at any point, neither does Velen scale to sargeras empowered KJ and Archi

give me like 10 minutes, i need to find the artifact weapons that are planet busters in-lore. just saying know what your talking about before you say crap

 

[M2B3]

give me like 10 minutes, i need to find the artifact weapons that are planet busters in-lore. just saying know what your talking about before you say crap

Make sure to double-check yourself in order to be sure that you won't be taking things out of context so that you don't end up embarrassing yourself.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Hostilities aside...

Sounds fair, in that case who scales to him?

KJ, probably not many others. That I can think of right now, at least. Ner'Zhul would count as well, for the record, but only briefly- before being reeled into the Lich King debacle, after taking in the magical power of Draenor.

 

[Hellbeast]

I see (So basically just the high ranking Burning Legion)

Make sure to double-check yourself in order to be sure that you won't be taking things out of context so that you don't end up embarrassing yourself.

I sincerely hope this isn't your behaviour the whole thread

Let's be nice here please

 

[DaReaperMan]

this one is useless, but the most interesting one I've found so far

this is decent, but only should qualify as high-end reality warping

and this was made with the claw of a 5-B

two decent ones, need I say more? also don't be a dick, that's coming from ME of all people, I don't want this thread closed like the Deathwing CRT because of toxicity.

and i will say this now, I tolerated it on the deathwing crt, it was done and over with. DO NOT try that here, because I WILL NOT tolerate it.

 

[M2B3]

this one is useless, but the most interesting one I've found so far

this is decent, but only should qualify as high-end reality warping

and this was made with the claw of a 5-B

two decent ones, need I say more? also don't be a dick, that's coming from ME of all people, I don't want this thread closed like the Deathwing CRT because of toxicity.

and i will say this now, I tolerated it on the deathwing crt, it was done and over with. DO NOT try that here, because I WILL NOT tolerate it.

Too many assumptions for me to even take you seriously.

Indeed, the first one has absolutely nothing to do with planet-busting at all.

I told you to double-check yourself. The Scepter hasn't destroyed any planets on its' own. It was Draenor that destroyed Draenor. Ner'Zhul had help from his clan, whilst tapping into Draenor's ley lines and still needed weeks of prep + multiple other artifacts to accomplish the feat. Not to mention that he didn't do it in one go either. The scepter has repeatedly failed to destroy any world regardless of who wielded it, including Sargeras. This is yet another thing that we have discussed at length

made with the claw of a 5-B

Assumptions, assumptions. At no point is it ever confirmed that Xal'atath is part of Y'shaarj or that it's another Old God in and of itself. Also, these 5-B ratings that the Old Gods have right now are vandalism. At no point did the dude who gave them these ratings make a CRT for them.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Too many assumptions for me to even take you seriously.

Indeed, the first one has absolutely nothing to do with planet-busting at all.

I told you to double-check yourself. The Scepter hasn't destroyed any planets on its' own. It was Draenor that destroyed Draenor. Ner'Zhul had help from his clan, whilst tapping into Draenor's ley lines and still neededs weeks of prep + multiple other artifacts to accomplish the feat. Not to mention that he didn't do it in one go either. The scepter has repeated failed to destroy any world regardless of who wielded it, including Sargeras. This is yet another thing that we have discussed at length


Assumptions, assumptions. At no point is it ever confirmed that Xal'atath is part of Y'shaarj or that it's another Old God in and of itself. Also, these 5-B ratings that the Old Gods have right now are vandalism. At no point did the dude who gave them these ratings make a CRT for them.

That first one LOL

uh... wasnt that Ner'Zul with prep and hundreds of portals? and like 3 different artifacts? and then when he went through a portal Kil'Jaden was like "nah son, im ganna torture ya and turn you into the lich king!

That second one you gotta make the CRT on, cause until it's concluded old gods are 5-B and both origins mentioned for xalatath makes it 5-B by default because it's old gods and scales to old gods(you know the old gods we fight? We've never really fought one, we fought what was essentially N'Zoths brain and Xalatath was used to get inside of N'Zoth(though it was destroyed in the process), though it was A. Probably weakened and B. Scales to the old gods anyway

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also you want to talk about assumptions... Read over what you said at the Deathwing crt.

 

[M2B3]

That first one LOL

That second one you gotta make the CRT on, cause until it's concluded old gods are 5-B and both origins mentioned for xalatath makes it 5-B by default because it's old gods and scales to old gods(you know the old gods we fight? We've never really fought one, we fought what was essentially N'Zoths brain and Xalatath was used to get inside of N'Zoth(though it was destroyed in the process), though it was A. Probably weakened and B. Scales to the old gods anyway

I can barely even tell what you're trying to say. Anyways, Old Gods aren't 5-B. You need a CRT to prove that they are. Otherwise their ratings are just vandalism. Neither theories are confirmed. You're assuming that because there's two of them that that means that at least one of them must be true. This obviously isn't necessary. Until it's proven, Xal'atath isn't an Old God of any kind and saying otherwise is just hearsay, not fact. And we fought N'zoth alright. We fought it on its' outside and on its' inside.

A. Probably weakened and B. Scales to the old gods anyway

More baseless speculation.

Anyways, I'll be responding to OP post on Sunday since there's a whole lot of wrong with it too, but I need to get off now and I won't be able to post again until Sunday. And I highly advise that you familiarize yourself with previous Warcraft CRTs so that we don't have to go over and over and over the same things endlessly.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Generally speaking I disagree with M2B3's interpretations up above. However, I feel compelled to say a couple things.

You guys, knock it off, please. This isn't productive. I think this CRT should be closed and, Reaper, hate to say it, I think you should stop making CRTs without evidence. M2B, for his part, needs to not contribute if he can't do so without lashing out at everybody. The Deathwing CRT awhile ago was a damn travesty.

With all of the above said. I agree that the Old Gods probably aren't 5-B, though they may well have feats I don't know of. The current rating is largely based on G'huun, who could well enough be making an idle threat. Shit needs revised, butting heads isn't the way to revise it.

 

[M2B3]

The Deathwing CRT awhile ago was a damn travesty.

Wait, you think you weren't at fault in that thread? Yikes.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The same could be said for you. So, consider this a formal, official warning: knock it off. Keep it civil. Being combative achieves nothing and that seems to be generally all you're willing to contribute.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Generally speaking I disagree with M2B3's interpretations up above. However, I feel compelled to say a couple things.

You guys, knock it off, please. This isn't productive. I think this CRT should be closed and, Reaper, hate to say it, I think you should stop making CRTs without evidence. M2B, for his part, needs to not contribute if he can't do so without lashing out at everybody. The Deathwing CRT awhile ago was a damn travesty.

With all of the above said. I agree that the Old Gods probably aren't 5-B, though they may well have feats I don't know of. The current rating is largely based on G'huun, who could well enough be making an idle threat. Shit needs revised, butting heads isn't the way to revise it.

Probably does, but I'm too lazy to say "put old gods at high 6-A" so yeh

 

[Dragonstitch]

Reading through the OP there is 1 major thing I do disagree with, and that is scaling Nathanos to Night Warrior Tyrande.
Since he only managed to fight her do to a temporary amp and even with that amp he had to run away. As well the pre-patch shows that without that amp he is no where close to Night Warrior Tyrande as she was easily stomping him without even trying.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Reading through the OP there is 1 major thing I do disagree with, and that is scaling Nathanos to Night Warrior Tyrande.
Since he only managed to fight her do to a temporary amp and even with that amp he had to run away. As well the pre-patch shows that without that amp he is no where close to Night Warrior Tyrande as she was easily stomping him without even trying.

I explicitly stated that Nathanos doesn't scale to tyrande, why do you think he's 7-B likely 6-C and not High 6-B by default by scaling to tyrande. He scales to pre-jailor Sylvanus who (in WoW anyway) should be stronger then CotLK Arthas or at least comparable

 

[Antvasima]

How many times have we discussed, how many time have I debunked this and how many times have staff members agreed with me at this point? Five or something?

I do not recognise your username well. What was the one that you used previously?

Anyway, as others have mentioned, you need to stay polite and respectful in order for our content revision discussions to work properly.