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Fixing the Situation With Locations...

Mmm... I don't got much to add other than throwing in my agreement with the OP.
 
I'll actually be busy for a few days, exam results n stuff going on for me, so I can't exactly debate in-depth, which IS the trend of this CRT :v

If anyone wants to substitute for me in debating my points, users did agree afterall, they're free to, otherwise I'll respond weeks later, most likely.

Kieran you're accommodating for this delay, right?
 
I am doing what I can to get this thread complete as fair as possible. Yes.

Good luck with your exams, I know how they feel, you have nothing to worry about!
 
I agree with it being acceptable from my end.
Click to expand...

Not liking the wording here. Avengers Tower was used as an example twice. Just cutting it short is fine

"Locations for regular cities, buildings, etc, are permitted if they act to benefit another profile as a form of Standard Equipment"
 
  • "If Locations differ between incarnations, to the point they cannot be considered the same location, then compositing the location is not allowed. Different profiles between incarnations must be made, as compositing pages like this creates a bad precedent and overall pointlessly messy pages.
Click to expand...
Huff 😠
 
KieranH10 said:
You are avoiding tagging Staff.
Click to expand...
No, I just want things properly organised in the usual manner of each side presenting their summarised arguments before I start sending notifications to them again.

Also, I have tried to be helpful, patient and respectful above, given that you are a highly valued staff member.
 
I understand this. But it is a very large task to summarize every argument given in a thread like this, it would be more reliable to give the information we know (The OP Summary, and the Current Consensus which briefly details users arguments) and let staff decide.
 
I am afraid that it would not be a balanced way to handle this. It would mean that people would only see your suggestions and nothing else.
 
Ok, I have gone back through the thread multiple times over, spending multiple hours on this comment alone, and using the original comment of the general stances users have given, summarized each point everyone has given that refers to the OPs points directly.
For the record, I still don't believe this is that helpful, and with that said, now that we have a summary balanced to the oppositions liking and I have complied with what they want, I would like more staff to be called here (Who haven't already commented).

While this is a summary, this is a long thread and the request was every given point for and against, so this is a long comment...

The current consensus seems to be:
Agree: (14, 6 Staff)
I have formatted the below sections as such: Regular text is points for the users point, bold text detail points against them.

Disagree: (8, 5 Staff)
  • AKM sama
    • Seems to generally disagree with the OP, stands by his opinions in the original thread, and generally prefers Zarks version
      • Believes that too many Location Profiles is not necessary and that the number should be kept low because we already have too many profiles
        • I believe that not creating Location Profiles will barely help this issue
      • Believes that Battles are the sole reason Locations should be created for
        • The OP of the original thread disproves this, there are at least 3 or 4 other relevant reasons to create Location Profiles.
      • Believes that Location Profiles will not benefit characters
        • Every thread made gives many examples against this:
          • Locations can be used as Attacks, Equipment, Abilities, or Justifications, among much more
      • Believes that Characters should have more profiles, and that most weapon and civilization profiles are redundant (Locations would be included here)
        • I do not see why we have the formats if they are not needed
      • Believes Locations different enough to not be composited are not different enough to be considered separate
        • I personally do not understand the logic here, if a location is different enough to be decomposited, by definition they should be different enough to be considered separate
  • Promestein
    • Seems to disagree with what should qualify for a profile, generally agrees with Zark
      • Believes that the number of Location Profiles should be kept low as few location profiles can diversify battles
        • This is not the only reason for Locations to be created.
      • Believes "Notable Effects" sounds fine
      • Believes "Page merging isn't necessarily wrong in some cases but is dumb in others"
      • Believes that splitting different incarnations of Locations shouldn't be done
        • "We don't need pages for the same locations"
        • Believes it is a generally bad idea unless Locations are sufficiently different (Having more than just a different structure, etc)
          • I have mentioned that this is pretty much what the OP states in most cases.
            • Promestein has not since replied
      • Is fine with the rule below:
        • "If a Location is randomly generated or differs each time it is seem, but still retains the same notable features, then compositing the page is allowed, as while they may differ in shape, this is the only difference found, all notable features are still the same."
      • Disagrees with what is a relevant difference in a Location Profile
        • "The location has to have something to offer with interesting effects or hazards or an unconventional environment."
      • Believes Locations that come under some form of equipment (Or attacks) should simply be listed in the characters profile.
        • I believe it's much more efficient to make a location profile for many reasons
          • We can summarize information much easier and more reliably than explaining an entire location's ability set in the bottom of a character profile with many paragraphs
          • Most of the time if there's a location (Such as The Mirror Dimension) there's multiple characters who can use it (Many sorcerors in this example), so instead of copy pasting paragraphs of text between profiles, simply add a link to one singular profile between them, this stops multiple profiles between verses from being clogged up in a single action.
          • Promestein later mentioned this subject should be case-by-case
      • Believes if a Location has equipment inside, it is better to simply list the equipment on a characters profile?
        • Given examples are the Iron Legion, Jarvis, etc from Avengers Tower being given to Iron Man.
          • I believe this is still incorrect as Iron Man only generally has full access to these inside Avengers Tower (The Iron Legion being the main subject here), so a profile for such is still very relevant and more reliable than a paragraph.
  • Antvasima
    • Agrees with AKM and Promestein
  • NomsNoms
  • The_Impress
    • Believes irregular structures should be completely disallowed
      • A user cannot know where a door or chest is in relation to a character during a battle.
        • I have mentioned that even the current format does not allow for this level of detail.
        • I have also detailed that no user is going in to that much detail in a battle, an opinion Promestein showed earlier in the thread
    • Believes profiles for sub-location of existing areas should be disallowed
      • Location Profiles should detail all relevant areas
        • I have mentioned that this would create massive walls of incomprehensible, unformated text that could not be easily avoided
          • Zark believes it leads to repetitive filemaking
            • This makes little sense, as the reason a location would be split into multiple sub-locations would be because they are different in nature to the other areas inside
    • Believes the Hazards section isn't needed
      • Believes it is covered by the current format in stats like "Notable areas" or "Notable objects"
        • I have mentioned that our users are already confused by our current format and what goes where, and were confused when we initially removed the hazards format.
  • DaReaperMan
  • Tllmbrg
  • Elizhaa (Has stated they agree with Promestein and AKMs points)
  • Somebodydata (Believes location profiles as a whole are unnecessary)

Neutral: (4 Staff)
  • Mr._Bambu
    • Agrees with the points he hasn't commented on.
    • Disagrees with Merging Formats.
      • Believes if a Profile is better covered by another format, it should be that.
      • Believes no sentient locations should be allowed, such as Hell (Doom), as it is the same case as Jabu-Jabu from Ocarina of Time, a fish which the player can enter.
        • I believe that the stomach of a creature and an entire sentient location are very different cases, as Hell is the location, the stomach is inside a creature, the stomach is not sentient.
          • Bambu does not believe this is sufficient.
      • Believes it would confuse new members as to why some profiles are merged.
        • I believe this is not a major issue for many reasons
          • We already allow statistics from Character profiles on other profiles, this would not be much different
          • Our formats are very easy to read and understand, simply having different statistics on some pages is not so confusing
          • The OP has detailed that we'll give clear and concise guidelines to stop any confusion of our members
            • Bambu does not believe this is sufficient.
    • Neutral on changing "Passive Effects"
      • Agrees it is a minor point, subject was dropped.
  • Sir_Ovens
    • Hasn't given a major stance
  • DarkDragonMedeus
    • Has stated the OP has made good points, but wishes to be considered neutral
  • DontTalkDT
    • Stance uncertain, opinions seemingly generally similar to what is being proposed, minor differences, but they have stated they believe they are different. No discussion has come after this discussion.

I cannot continue to be forced to make comments like this, forcing me to go through entire threads multiple times over to explain information that has already been discussed, instead of just asking more staff to give their opinion on the already summarized Original Post, is a quick way to deteriorate my motivation here entirely, being truthful.
So I repeat, I would like Staff to be asked here to comment on both this, and to read through the OP. I understand they may not wish to, if not they don't have to, but a notification is not that much of a pester, and could bring a lot more members here to conclude this subject.
 
Last edited:
Bambu has since replied stating he feels the defense of those aspects was insufficient, but wished to avoid droning on about points other people were not interested in. Thanks.
 
I thought I would get in trouble as Ant declined my request and was enforcing it did not happen, thank you for telling me.

@Ultima_Reality @SomebodyData @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @DarkDragonMedeus @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Ogbunabali @Abstractions @Colonel_Krukov @Shadowbokunohero @Crazylatin77 @Jvando @Zaratthustra @SamanPatou @Just_a_Random_Butler @ElixirBlue @Dino_Ranger_Black @JustSomeWeirdo @LordGriffin1000 @Theglassman12 @Crabwhale @Eficiente @GyroNutz @DarkGrath @The_Wright_Way @Moritzva @Firestorm808 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @The_Impress @QuasiYuri @Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @Ugarik @DMUA @Jasonsith @Armorchompy @KieranH10 @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @Amelia_Lonelyheart

I am sorry, I understand that you have all been asked here once already, this thread is becoming quite long, and is not getting very far any time soon.
KieranH10 said:
snip
Click to expand...
The comment above are the current stances of every user so far, and where each argument is on each subject. Any input would be appreciated regarding these.

There is a TLDR at the bottom of the OP summarizing each subject too for those that do not have much time to read the entire OP.
 
I didn't receive a ping notification so you might not be able ping people. I thought you need to be a thread mod, admin or bureaucrat to do so?

Regardless, you know I still agree.
 
That is strange. I have tagged people in the past and they have received notifications. Perhaps it is because you were already here? I'm unsure.
 
It honestly sounds like there are too many problems to discuss with location pages to adequately have them on this site. And that's ignoring how entirely unnecessary they seem?

EDIT:

To add to my thoughts: just looking at the effort Kieran had to put into summarizing everyones' opinions shows how entirely impossible it'll be to achieve a singular consensus.

The only side in agreement (Coincidently, the side that agrees with the revisions) seems to mostly consist of people who haven't really contributed to the debate which honestly tells me, especially on a thread with points reaching the two digits, that a significant portion hasn't actually read the thread or have already made up their mind before the thread's discussions began.

And for what? Location profiles are entirely irrelevant to the character indexing and only barely relevant in vs threads, which we've managed without any need of location profiles for years.

Location indexing sounds more like something for a new site than vsbattles.
 
Last edited:
I don't believe the lack of discussion for agreement means they haven't read the thread. There isn't much to discuss if they agree with what they see after all.

If you believe locations as a format are unnecessary then I will note this in the summary.

I personally believe that a few of the points you bring up aren't 100% accurate, as locations will help a lot of profiles in many ways, not just for versus battles. They can be used to give further formatted information about a dimension or realm a character may be capable of BFRing to (such as the MCUs Mirror Dimension, or Kung Fu Pandas Spirit Realm), or they can detail equipment more accurately then simply adding paragraphs to a character profile, they can also help with cosmologies, and more.

Thank you for commenting though, all input is appreciated.
 
@The_Impress

Would you be willing to help us out by writing a post that explains your side of the arguments here please?
 
Okay. No problem. I suppose that we can wait then.
 
I thought I was asked to summarize the thread and did so for every point brought up detailing where we are with each subject over the course of days.

Can I ask what the point of those hours I spent was if you were just going to ask somebody else anyway? Respectfully.

I'm fine with Zark making her point, but as she has since said she is busy. I was asked to summarize the thread and I did so.
If I'm going to be ignored then don't ask me to do things that aren't going to be taken into account.
 
As I think that we agreed earlier, we were supposed to wait for Impress to give her side of things, so our staff members can read through both of your summary posts and then reach a conclusion.
 
Finding myself to be in agreement with points provided here by AKM and Zark.

I also feel implementing the whole thing would require too much effort for little to no merit. Like SD said, we can manage locations in the VS threads themselves.

Count me in as disagree, I suppose.
 
Thank you for the input.

@The_Impress

Have you had the time to write your view of things here yet?
 
In retrospect I've made my views pretty clear in prior posts.

Brief summary is: Many proposals suggested in the OP are leading to unnecessary files, repetitive files, and feasibly unrepresentable files (represented via compositing, essentially), I've demonstrated these in prior posts. OP wants us to treat them equivalently to character profiles, but we shouldn't have to, Location files, at the end of the day, are accessory files, not priority ones, and we're understaffed as is in terms of file monitoring, adding to that with exploitabls standards on an entire format will only add to the headache.
 
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