Fixing outdated Pokemon Trainers

[Antvasima]

What do other staff members here think?

@Dino_Ranger_Black @SomebodyData @WeeklyBattles @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Shadowbokunohero @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Starter_Pack @GyroNutz @Theglassman12

 

[Starter_Pack]

Honestly, this is the exact kind of summarization that I was asking for, and I think I can support this reasoning.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.

 

[SamanPatou]

Honestly, this is the exact kind of summarization that I was asking for, and I think I can support this reasoning.

Thank you for the input, and sorry, but I didn't get which side you support.
High 7-A for E4 level characters or for champions level ones?

 

[Starter_Pack]

Honestly, refering to the anime for this, but E4 members constantly battle against the Champion and attempt to take their titles from them. They fail because we have to keep the status quo, but the fact is E4 members are able to combat the Champion and put up a fight.

So, yes. They should scale.

 

[SamanPatou]

Got it, thank you.

I will wait a bit more, to see if Gyro and/or others want to give their opinions.

 

[Imaginym]

Incidentally, should we take any stance from the Lance vs Leon exhibition(?) battle in the anime? IIRC, it was just Lance's Gyarados vs Leon's Charizard, both Mega-Evolving, but the fact that it had an (arguably?) decisive winner between Champions may be (again, arguably?) of some significance, I'd assume.

Or that could be a matter for another time &/or place.

 

[SamanPatou]

It just means that Leon upscales from Lance, but it wasn't a surprise, Raihan is basically a regional champion and never managed to defeat Leon, who has also an undefeated win streak from I don't recall how many years.

 

[Imaginym]

It just means that Leon upscales from Lance, but it wasn't a surprise, Raihan is basically a regional champion and never managed to defeat Leon, who has also an undefeated win streak from I don't recall how many years.

You personally don't recall how many years, or in canon, the amount of years is described with some such vague terminology?

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here then, in summary?

 

[SamanPatou]

@Imaginym I don't personally remember

@Ant I either apply the changes, with the High 7-A characters scaling from the Elite Four, or I wait for further inputs from GyroNutz and/or other staff members.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. What is the staff consensus so far? The ones I sent notifications to largely seem uninterested.

 

[SamanPatou]

Dino Ranger and Starter Pack agree with Elite Four level, while GyroNutz stands for champion level, but he didn't see the new arguments yet.

Overall, it's not that big of a change, though, so I guess that it could be applied anyway.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will call Gyro. If he does not reply, I suppose that we should go with majority rule in this case.

 

[Antvasima]

@GyroNutz

Would you be willing to give some input here please?

 

[Arceus0x]

Yo i wanted to add to this thread and say this...
Can we finally upgrade Ash and delete the 6-C from Pikachu for goodness sake?
Ash is still high 7-A there despite having pikachu who is high 6-A with the blue orb and 4-B with z move. He also has Naganadel and Melmetal both of whom are 4-B. He should be fixed, it ain't even really an upgrade.
About the 6-C pikachu - nonsensical multiplier. G-max pikachu at the moment tops at 3.2 gigatons or so i heard which is not 6-C.

 

[SamanPatou]

Giga Pikachu will be downgraded along the other outdated Dynamax, I will apply everything at the same time when we reach a conclusion.
Regarding Ash, I don't know the anime very well and I don't know how to properly apply the fixes you mentioned, so you can edit it if you want, once we finish here.

 

[Antvasima]

@GyroNutz

We would still appreciate some input from you.

 

[GyroNutz]

Elite Four members consistently fight and lose to Champion level opponents. One of the prerequisites to being a champion is to defeat every elite four member in a row. I don't think there's a massive gap between Champions and Elite Four members, so maybe a compromise "At least 7-A+, likely High 7-A" could work, but it doesn't seem right with the Elite Four and Champions being the same tier when Champion level trainers only get there via upscaling anyway.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the reply.

What do the rest of you think of Gyro's suggestion?

 

[SamanPatou]

Personally I think that a "possibly" would be an even better compromise than "likely"

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is probably fine, but we need a bit more input first.

 

[GyroNutz]

As a further proof, Lucien (the fourth of the Sinnoh Elite Four) explicitly states that the Champion, Cynthia, is far stronger than the Elite Four.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Tbf it’s Cynthia

 

[Antvasima]

So what has been accepted here?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah, Cynthia isn't exactly a normal champion by any standard.

 

[SamanPatou]

Currently there is still the division between Starter Pack, who wants to make the High 7-A tier start from the Elite Four, while Gyro thinks it's better to make it start from the Champions.

Personally the "7-A, possibly High 7-A" from trainers around the E4 level could be a good compromise.

 

[Antvasima]

@Starter_Pack @GyroNutz

What do you think of Saman's compromise solution?

 

[Starter_Pack]

Okay. That's an acceptable compromise to me.

 

[Armorchompy]

I think it's a pretty good conclusion.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the replies. What about you @GyroNutz ?

 

[GyroNutz]

Thank you for the replies. What about you @GyroNutz ?

I'm fine with it.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. We seem to have reached an agreement then.

 

[SamanPatou]

Perfect, I will update the profiles overtime starting from tomorrow, given the high number of them.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[SamanPatou]

I didn't think to Shadow Pokemon from Colosseum and XD, how do we consider them? Stronger than normal Pokemon enough to jump from at least 7-A to high 7-A, like other power ups?

I also have some doubt with Cyrus' first team, since he commands three 8-A Pokemon, but their levels are superior to Crasher Wake's Gyarados (and you also fight him after the gym). Do we consider Cyrus' Pokemon particularly strong or is Wake's Gyarados to be weaker?

 

[Armorchompy]

Considering Cyrus is definitely not an average trainer, I don't think it'd be wrong to assume his Pokèmon are stronger.

 

[SamanPatou]

Another doubt, both Wake and Maylene own a 7-A Pokemon (Gyarados and Lucario) but at that point many Pokemon are around High 7-C for being middle forms, even those owned by the rival and such.
Do we have to upgrade to 7-A the Pokemon owned by those who beat the Gym Leaders, even though they are still middle forms, or we consider Lucario and Gyarados particularly weak, like at Large Town as the middle mons.
Personally I'm leaning towards the second option

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

What about Gym leader Nessa being 7-A?

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't really understand the logic behind a Gym Leader's Pokèmon being weaker than the average Pokèmon