Pokémon Trainers

[Arigarmy]

Why do a solid bunch of them not have the stats for just themselves? Ash Ketchum, Lt. Surge, and Team Rocket Trio have it among a lot of others, sure, but people like Red (Pokémon) don't with no real justification. Slapping a 10-B on them doesn't seem like a hard thing to do, and if you just give them the stats of the Pokemon, is there really a reason to even keep the page if it's just a massive collection of other pages stuffed into one page?

The same goes for their durability/speed/whatnot. It's just weird to me, because you can't just simply leave out the trainers themselves, yeah? A lot of these pages already have the 10-B stat, so why not all of them?

I do know about the supposed note that specifies that "Oh it's just their Pokemon stats." or the weakness of "Mortal without Pokemon." and whatnot, but guess who doesn't have that i their pages, especially some more important ones out of the bunch, and I'm really not liking how I need to stretch this sentence. Either things aren't done, or someone's forgetting to add stuff. I already tried asking around about this, but replies weren't coming back when I keep getting more questions about this stuff when I'm told something that sounds off.

 

[Ryukama]

Rating Ash Ketchum as Mountain level just cause he has a Poké Ball that'll bring a Mountain level who's willing to fight him seems no different than making Goku 2-C cause he had the button that brought Zen'ō to fight Zamasu for him.

Scaling Ash's Speed, Durability and Striking Strength based upon the Speed, Striking Strength and Durability of separate entities seems especially iffy to me.

I'm fine with trainers' profile only having keys based upon their actual stats that they themselves have. Just like every other profile.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

For what it's worth, Anime!Giovanni has an 8-A durability feat, and I think Manga!Team Rocket have an 8-B durability but those are probably outliers.

Most trainers should be around 9-B since they're usually able to take hits from starter Pokemon as well as hurt teach other.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Im personally fine with letting them use the Pokemon. A lot of character use machines/robot to help them fight but we label them as equipment. If you over look the fact one sentient and the other isnt, they effectively serve the same purpose.

 

[LordXcano]

@Ryu Ash is even worse because Ash has actual feats you could scale the profile from

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Ryu. Gigantic difference. Goku's a martial artist who'd normally does things on his own, and was carrying an ex machina. Ash is a kid who specializes in this. Should we make profiles for anyone who can summon things 10-B unless they have feats with it? It's no different from the profiles for the Digidestined. However, I'm fine with and agree to just slapping on a 10-C/10-B/10-A tab on them.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Iirc doesn't Ash physically train alongside his Pokemon too?

He's taken a volt tackle at point blank range from Pikachu before and survived with very little scratches and also trained his staravia in learning brave bird in D/P.

 

[Dark649]

He also took hits from legendaries. I think 10-C for childs, 10-B for humans, 10-A for athletes and 9-B for char. on Bruno level.

 

[LordXcano]

A few feats for Ash -

• Hurls this log (Which has been calc'd at around 1000 lbs.)

• Blocks his Monferno's Flame Wheel

• Knocks out prison bars

• Dodges a strike from Pikachu

• Reacts to a Pokemon that was moving at Mach 2

 

[Dark649]

Ash (Who is portrayed as a regular human in most episodes) < Peak Humans < Athletes makes no sense.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Just slap a 9-B Physically, and a With Pokémon after their Tier 8 / 7 APs if this is such a controversy.

 

[Ryukama]

@Cal Goku being a martial artist and Ash relying on his Pokemon is a "gigantic difference"? Not really. They both have machines capable of summoning people who are much stronger than them to fight on their behalf. The point is they are also both individual entities and I don't think we should rate their stats based upon what other separate characters are capable of if they fight for them. This is a profile for they themselves after all.

If I'm friends with a UFC fighter and can call him and ask him to beat someone up for me, that means I myself am as strong, fast and skilled as a UFC fighter. That's pretty much what Ash's profile is saying.

At most he should just be "9-B, 7-A with summons" in Attack Potency and Tier in this case. Ash shouldn't have his Speed, Durability and Striking Strength rated based upon the stats of his Pokemon. Ash cannot throw a Mountain level punch or go dozens of times faster than sound. His summons can.

Plus Ash has many individual feats to scale him from, as Xcano showed.

 

[Kaltias]

Wouldn't his individual reactions scale though? He can perceive the movements of Pokemon comparable to his own

 

[Dark649]

Wouldn't his individual reactions scale though? He can perceive the movements of Pokemon comparable to his ow

No. At moments he can perceive the movements of legendaries like in the first movies and other moments he gets completely blitzed by them.

 

[Kaltias]

This doesn't invalidate the fact that he is always able to perceive the movements of his own Pokemon though

 

[Dark649]

This doesn't invalidate the fact that he is always able to perceive the movements of his own Pokemon though

His Pikachu is faster then MSH+Magnemite, which is the speed of the legendary, this means he can react to legendaries despite all the trainers superior to him cannot.

 

[Arigarmy]

guys i just wanted 10-C to 10-B to whatever on the pages, i didn't need this stuff.

 

[Dark649]

Don't worry that is not a problem as i will soon revise them along with the new upgrades, however Satoshi gets a Massively Hypersonic+ reactions because he can react to his pokemons and perceived the moviments of Mewtwo, Zapdos and etc.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Should we use the Japanese Names or American Names in the profiles.

 

[Dark649]

The thing about Satoshi is that he is considered as a normal human, but he is showed as a superhuman that can perceive the movements of legendaries and yet he lost most of the leagues.

Japanese names because they are the first and original ones. The bad names like Gary comes from the 4kids dub, which censored a lot of elements of the series and added cringy lines to to the Yugioh protagonists, which i will remove and add their main quote from the Jap version.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

We're definitely not using the Japanese names. There's no way...most people who watch the Pokémon anime know him as Satoshi that go on here. Especially since we don't use the Japanese names for the Pokémon themselves.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Dark649

"The bad names like Gary comes from the 4kids dub, which censored a lot of elements of the series and added cringy lines to to the Yugioh protagonists, which i will remove and add their main quote from the Jap version."

That's literally not relevant in any way.

 

[Ryukama]

Agreed with Ever. 4kids censoring things and adding lines you personally do not like in a separate anime has absolutely nothing to do with his name. If Gary is what everyone/most people know or recognize him as, I think that is what the name of the page should be. Or at the very least have a Gary redirect.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Think of it like this:

How many of you know who Natsume is? Now, how about Sabrina? Kasumi or Misty? Shirona or Cynthia? Takeshi or Brock? Haruka or May? Mitsumi or Dawn?

 

[DerpCity]

Yeah, we should probably use their original names. We could also put, for example, "Satoshi, also known as Ash Ketchum," at the start of the character description.

As for the premise of the thread itself, I agree with the idea of putting down a key for the character themselves. Ash already has this on his page, but I haven't checked others which probably don't.

However, if we remove the Pokemon from their profiles, we'd basically be saying we can't scale them from their equipment, and thus characters like Rick Sanchez can't have a "With Various Equipment" key. To remove the "With their Pokemon" key we'd be basically saying trainers are only Wall level, even if they have a Gyarados in their pocket, which we consider Mountain level. Since Pokemon are their primary method of fighting other people and Pokemon, I feel it'd be dishonest not to include them. Also, all of a Trainer's Pokemon scale from their strongest I'm pretty sure, so if we just look up the profiles it'd be like "Oh his Pikachu is only 8-C it won't be helpful at all"

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Here's an answer to end all questions about naming:

What language is this site in.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Derp

The problem with using the original names is that most users are likely to not know them. Really, how many people know Ash as Satoshi? We generally go with English names (Along with the English ordering for names), unless it's a case like Digimon where some of the English translations Bowdlerize their names (Such as changing Daemon to Creepymon, or Lucemon Satan Mode to Lucemon Wild Mode).

Also is your avatar a goddamn water bear?

 

[Dark649]

I agree with DerpCity also for One Piece we are using the better names instead of the 4kids ones.

 

[Cropfist]

This is being derailed.

 

[DerpCity]

@Ever If we use the English names over the original names, then I have no problem with them, I just feel it'd be more appropriate to use their actual names rather than the ones used for localization. Also, yes it is.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Everyone already agreed to it, so it's able to be derailed now, @Crop.

We use Funimation unedited names. 4kids isn't even doing Pokémon anymore.

 

[Cropfist]

If it's already agreed the thread should be closed.

 

[Ryukama]

4kids isn't even doing Pokémon anymore.

4kids isn't doing anything anymore...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Use English Names, ad Japanese Names in the listing.

"Ash, known as Satoshi (Kanji goes here) in the Japanese original, is the protagonist of the Pokémon Anime"

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Yeah, we should stick with dub. As hit or miss it may be, it's still very iconic and well known. Some of us may know the Japanese names like the back of our hands, but the average reader probably wont.