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Fist of the North Star General CRT

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Silvervigilant

Silvervigilant

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I think that the Top tiers and God tiers fighters in FOTNS verse should a higher speed, and i have some evidences

Combat and Reaction Speed :

I think that their combat and reaction speed should be lightspeed to faster than light. I know that sounds alot, but there are more than one feat to back that up

Feats

1 A Nanto user called Garuda states that he can fight at the speed of light . Also is the descripition of his fighting style.
2 Han says that his fist doesn't have a shadow. Zhang Taiyan from Souten no Ken also does something similar.
3 Also another Souten no Ken character called Van der Kool uses a martial art that allows the user to emit light. (Note in Trivia there is a comparison between Van's martial art and Gento Koken due to both being able to use light attacks and burn their targets) Van der Kool also can attack the opponent one hundred quintillion times.
4 Gento Koken light attacks, yes Gento also grants the user light manip, here some light attacks, Falco's light attack, Falco also can complete desintegrate a man, Solia light attack, even Hyoh using his fist attacks Kenshiro using light, Note the light emanating from Hyoh's hands, and a beam of light passing through Kenshiro's chest, Hyoh's Joma Kosho
So at least lightspeed for the top tiers and FTL for the God Tiers.

Travel Speed :

For travel speed i think they are at least Massively Hypersonic based on this feats

1 Kasumi Kenshiro is said to be able to move at Lightning speed
2 Kasumi Kenshiro outruns Lightning, this feat goes like this. 1 Liu Zongwu is at the top of the structure 2 Liu Zongwu is alone, and Ken is nowhere to be seen 3 Liu removes his cape = Lightning passes by him >> Liu turns = Kenshiro arrives and Liu notices him 4 Lightning passes by Kenshiro 5 Lightning strikes the ground.
3 Yasaka can move at the speed of lightning and Kenshiro is faster than him.

That's it. What you guys think ?
 
Yes. If the knowledgeable members that I called for do not show up, I can notify some staff members as well.
 
I had to turn on my notifs again, considering the other time was so I don't have to be notified for a certain series I won't be contributing to much if at all outside of input (which IMO doesn't count as working on something, hence I'd come around provided I don't get annoyed again with it)...

Off-topic rant-aside, I do want to see what others have to say but for my view here:

On Travel Speed: Seems fine. Kasumi can do that even when not going all out and he's also already at MHS. Granted from what I seem to recall, Lightning speed can also be MHS according to this wikia's standards so either it's another supporting feat or an upgrade. I'm fine with either one but I can see him, and those who scale to him, go at MHS+ if anyone else agrees with that.

Not sure about the last point seeing as it's from Genesis which I've never read nor watched. The second one looks okay given that Liu would have noticed Kasumi's presence if he just showed up normally or whatever. The fact that Kasumi showed up just as he took off his cape and before the lightning struck the ground looks like it can be argued for Kasumi to be MHS+, or just higher end MHS IDEK.

Now for the Combat and Reaction speed part...
  1. Never read Garuda so I can't really say anything for this.
  2. IDK. Would like to see what others say of this.
  3. Same thing as the Genesis thing above. Never read it so I can't say.
  4. Hmm this one, I can sorta see there being reason to maybe try for the Top Tiers to be lightspeed to FTL, if not at least as a "likely/possibly". I can't recall Falco ever doing something like what Solia did but given they use the same style and Falco's a master of it, I'd wager he'd do the same weird light thing that Solia did to Ken. Hyoh's can be as well for that same reason, and at least there Ken's inner dialogue seem to imply that he managed to retreat or dodge out of the way before it screwed him over.
But like I said, I do want to hear others thoughts on this and see where that leads cuz I'm really only familiar with the OG manga and Souten.
 
Qliphoth_Bacikal said:
I had to turn on my notifs again, considering the other time was so I don't have to be notified for a certain series I won't be contributing to much if at all outside of input (which IMO doesn't count as working on something, hence I'd come around provided I don't get annoyed again with it)...

Off-topic rant-aside, I do want to see what others have to say but for my view here:

On Travel Speed: Seems fine. Kasumi can do that even when not going all out and he's also already at MHS. Granted from what I seem to recall, Lightning speed can also be MHS according to this wikia's standards so either it's another supporting feat or an upgrade. I'm fine with either one but I can see him, and those who scale to him, go at MHS+ if anyone else agrees with that.

Not sure about the last point seeing as it's from Genesis which I've never read nor watched. The second one looks okay given that Liu would have noticed Kasumi's presence if he just showed up normally or whatever. The fact that Kasumi showed up just as he took off his cape and before the lightning struck the ground looks like it can be argued for Kasumi to be MHS+, or just higher end MHS IDEK.

Now for the Combat and Reaction speed part...
  1. Never read Garuda so I can't really say anything for this.
  2. IDK. Would like to see what others say of this.
  3. Same thing as the Genesis thing above. Never read it so I can't say.
  4. Hmm this one, I can sorta see there being reason to maybe try for the Top Tiers to be lightspeed to FTL, if not at least as a "likely/possibly". I can't recall Falco ever doing something like what Solia did but given they use the same style and Falco's a master of it, I'd wager he'd do the same weird light thing that Solia did to Ken. Hyoh's can be as well for that same reason, and at least there Ken's inner dialogue seem to imply that he managed to retreat or dodge out of the way before it screwed him over.
But like I said, I do want to hear others thoughts on this and see where that leads cuz I'm really only familiar with the OG manga and Souten.
Click to expand...
Well, in the first point, the technique is literally described as fists moving at lightspeed.
 
Qliphoth_Bacikal said:
I had to turn on my notifs again, considering the other time was so I don't have to be notified for a certain series I won't be contributing to much if at all outside of input (which IMO doesn't count as working on something, hence I'd come around provided I don't get annoyed again with it)...

Off-topic rant-aside, I do want to see what others have to say but for my view here:

On Travel Speed: Seems fine. Kasumi can do that even when not going all out and he's also already at MHS. Granted from what I seem to recall, Lightning speed can also be MHS according to this wikia's standards so either it's another supporting feat or an upgrade. I'm fine with either one but I can see him, and those who scale to him, go at MHS+ if anyone else agrees with that.

Not sure about the last point seeing as it's from Genesis which I've never read nor watched. The second one looks okay given that Liu would have noticed Kasumi's presence if he just showed up normally or whatever. The fact that Kasumi showed up just as he took off his cape and before the lightning struck the ground looks like it can be argued for Kasumi to be MHS+, or just higher end MHS IDEK.

Now for the Combat and Reaction speed part...
  1. Never read Garuda so I can't really say anything for this.
  2. IDK. Would like to see what others say of this.
  3. Same thing as the Genesis thing above. Never read it so I can't say.
  4. Hmm this one, I can sorta see there being reason to maybe try for the Top Tiers to be lightspeed to FTL, if not at least as a "likely/possibly". I can't recall Falco ever doing something like what Solia did but given they use the same style and Falco's a master of it, I'd wager he'd do the same weird light thing that Solia did to Ken. Hyoh's can be as well for that same reason, and at least there Ken's inner dialogue seem to imply that he managed to retreat or dodge out of the way before it screwed him over.
But like I said, I do want to hear others thoughts on this and see where that leads cuz I'm really only familiar with the OG manga and Souten.
Click to expand...
About the Travel Speed

Yeah i can also see, they being MHS+ that's why i say at least MHS.

For the Combat and Reaction speed

1 The name of the manga is Kinyoku no Garuda, Buronson co-wrote it, and Tetsuo Hara helped with the character design, he's literally is said to be lightspeed
2 Han states that his fist is so fast that nobody could see his shadow multiple times [1][2], If an object blocks light, that creates a shadow. If an object has no mass or is transparent, it doesn't block light and thus does not create a shadow. so if something moves faster than what light could detect, it's faster enough to dodge light from being blocked. The scans backs this up by showing no shadow of their fists when Han fights Kenshiro. [3][4] Also the shadow statement exist in the raws and in the anime as well.
3 In Souten no Ken Re:genessis The Tento Seiin Ken is a martial art that uses Light.
4 Gento Koken also uses Lightattacks and Falco uses a lightattack against the nameless Shura [5] [6]
For me "likely or possibly FTL" is fine.
 
  1. Statement and a wiki article based off said statement. Needs to be backed up.
  2. Weird statement, potentially hyperbolic. Shadowless kick is a common technique name in martial arts stuff, EVEN IN REAL LIFE. Meaningless on its own.
  3. No scans.
  4. Light attacks are not automatically lightspeed, need to meet requirements.
For the travel speed feats, one is a statement, I'm not sure if the second is an actual feat, and the third is just a guy moving around with electrical trails.

No to all.
 
It seems like this has been rejected then. Thank you for the evaluations.
 
Promestein said:
  1. Statement and a wiki article based off said statement. Needs to be backed up.
  2. Weird statement, potentially hyperbolic. Shadowless kick is a common technique name in martial arts stuff, EVEN IN REAL LIFE. Meaningless on its own.
  3. No scans.
  4. Light attacks are not automatically lightspeed, need to meet requirements.
For the travel speed feats, one is a statement, I'm not sure if the second is an actual feat, and the third is just a guy moving around with electrical trails.

No to all.
Click to expand...
1 Yes is a statement, but is literal and is backup By alot of feats
2 Han cleary states that his fist doesn't produce shadows 2 times is not hyperbolic, HNK tends to be a series that accurately describes the techniques and avoids hyperbole, The scans backs this up by showing no shadow of their fists when Han fights Kenshiro. [3][4]
3 there is a scan Tento Kogai Sho
4 But they attack with literal light, not to mention Kenshiro barely escaped the attacks

the 2nd travel speed is a feat anyone who says otherwise doesn't paid attention and 3rd feat is lighting since he became much faster than he was
 
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Silvervigilant said:
1 Yes is a statement, but is literal and is backup By alot of feats
2 Han cleary states that his fist doesn't produce shadows 2 times is not hyperbolic, HNK tends to be a series that accurately describes the techniques and avoids hyperbole, The scans backs this up by showing no shadow of their fists when Han fights Kenshiro. [3][4]
3 there is a scan Tento Kogai Sho
4 But they attack with literaly light, not to mention Kenshiro's reaction that barely escape the attacks

the 2nd travel speed is a feat anyone who says otherwise doesn't paid attention and 3rd feat is lighting since he became much faster than he was
Click to expand...
As i said HNK tends to be a series that accurately describes the techniques and avoids hyperbole, the name of the techniques say exactly what the technique does, for example

The Hundred Crack Fist : Kenshiro delivers one hundred blows in the enemy vital points
The Cross Slash : Kenshiro used this technique to defeat Shin during their rematch, striking his vital points in the Cross-Shape of Shin's emblem
Pressure Point Sealing: Kenshiro uses to seal some of his Pressure Points

The Martial Arts descriptions are also accurate, for example

Solia describes an ability of his martial art (Gento Koken) he says this and is exactly what Gento does

And many other examples

So i say they at least need to have likely or possibly FTL in their profile
 
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To be honest all of this is pretty straightforward. Since this only applies to the top tiers of the verse there no indication for it being an outlier. Also I’m in agreement for the upgrades.
 
  1. I wouldn't say it's backed up by much at all.
  2. Their fist's shadows actually are kinda visible?
  3. I would like it in context.
  4. Doesn't matter.
Speed amp =/= lightning speed by default.

In your own posts, you share scans where Falco's light attacks are described as ki. Definitely not lightspeed.
 
Promestein said:
  1. I wouldn't say it's backed up by much at all.
  2. Their fist's shadows actually are kinda visible?
  3. I would like it in context.
  4. Doesn't matter.
Speed amp =/= lightning speed by default.
Click to expand...
1 It's backed up by this
HNK tends to be a series that accurately describes the techniques and avoids hyperbole, the name of the techniques say exactly what the technique does, for example

The Hundred Crack Fist : Kenshiro delivers one hundred blows in the enemy vital points
The Cross Slash : Kenshiro used this technique to defeat Shin during their rematch, striking his vital points in the Cross-Shape of Shin's emblem
Pressure Point Sealing: Kenshiro uses to seal some of his Pressure Points

The Martial Arts descriptions are also accurate, for example

Solia describes an ability of his martial art (Gento Koken) he says this and is exactly what Gento does

And many other examples

2 No they aren't

3 Van der Kool uses the Tento Seiin Ken Style a style as i said attacks with light, and he's capable of throwing one hundred quintillion punches as you can see there

4 Actually it does

"Speed amp =/= lightning speed by default."[

You didn't understand Kasumi Kenshiro has feats that he prove that he was moving faster lightning but he could barely keep up (travel speed wise) with Yasaka.

I hope you understand
 
1. Doesn't matter, we need feats. We can't take statements blindly at face value.

2. Yes they are, at least a bit. This is the most notable one here.

3. GIVE ME THE PAGES.

4. It doesn't matter, actually, and it's not even actual light, it's ki. No light properties.

I don't see how the Kasumi Kenshiro feat, the one you shared play by play, is faster than lightning. Lightning just strikes as they mostly stand around. It's very ambiguous.
 
I think that Prom seems to make sense.
 
1 I presented the feats, like the Han and Kenshiro fight, and the cleary light attack from Hyoh,
2 NO, you are the only person to see it
3 All the scans right here, but they aren't translated
4 it's not Ki even Shchi notes it, in Kenshiro vs Hyoh fight

Man he outrunned the lightning he wasn't there when the lightning passed by Liu
 
Promestein said:
1. Doesn't matter, we need feats. We can't take statements blindly at face value.

2. Yes they are, at least a bit. This is the most notable one here.

3. GIVE ME THE PAGES.

4. It doesn't matter, actually, and it's not even actual light, it's ki. No light properties.

I don't see how the Kasumi Kenshiro feat, the one you shared play by play, is faster than lightning. Lightning just strikes as they mostly stand around. It's very ambiguous.
Click to expand...
1 I presented the feats, like the Han and Kenshiro fight, and the cleary light attack from Hyoh,
2 NO, you are the only person to see it
3 All the scans right here, but they aren't translated
4 it's not Ki even Shchi notes it, in Kenshiro vs Hyoh fight

Man he outrunned the lightning he wasn't there when the lightning passed by Liu
 
The Hyoh thing isn't even a light attack, it's clearly just a slash with his hand.

Which chapter?

IT'S KI.

Liu turned around while taking off his cape, as lightning struck, and Kenshiro was there. He did not outrun the lightning; he could've been standing behind Liu before the lightning even struck; we're not shown that angle until right after the lightning starts.

Stop doubleposting. All in one post, please.

People mindlessly agreeing is worthless. You're the only one debating.
 
Promestein said:
The Hyoh thing isn't even a light attack, it's clearly just a slash with his hand.

Which chapter?

IT'S KI.

Liu turned around while taking off his cape, as lightning struck, and Kenshiro was there. He did not outrun the lightning; he could've been standing behind Liu before the lightning even struck; we're not shown that angle until right after the lightning starts.

Stop doubleposting. All in one post, please.

People mindlessly agreeing is worthless. You're the only one debating.
Click to expand...
Man sorry but i'm quite busy now, when i have time i promise i will answer you more calmly and explain everything in more detail, i appreciated if you have a little patience
 
I can be patient. I haven't been impatient at all.

I'm asking a friend who knows Japanese about the Quintillion punch thing. That's my main concern, personally; it's a big blatant feat, and if it really is quintillions that's notable. But, my concern is that it's possibly an outlier - this is a very big jump.
 
Promestein said:
  1. Statement and a wiki article based off said statement. Needs to be backed up.
  2. Weird statement, potentially hyperbolic. Shadowless kick is a common technique name in martial arts stuff, EVEN IN REAL LIFE. Meaningless on its own.
  3. No scans.
  4. Light attacks are not automatically lightspeed, need to meet requirements.
For the travel speed feats, one is a statement, I'm not sure if the second is an actual feat, and the third is just a guy moving around with electrical trails.

No to all.
Click to expand...
Em, what light attacks requirements exactly?
 
Thank you for helping out Promestein.
 
Promestein said:
The Hyoh thing isn't even a light attack, it's clearly just a slash with his hand.

Which chapter?

IT'S KI.

Liu turned around while taking off his cape, as lightning struck, and Kenshiro was there. He did not outrun the lightning; he could've been standing behind Liu before the lightning even struck; we're not shown that angle until right after the lightning starts.

Stop doubleposting. All in one post, please.

People mindlessly agreeing is worthless. You're the only one debating.
Click to expand...
1 Well Hyoh's Joma Kosho, isn't Ki, because if it was Shachi won't have this reaction Shachi notice a change in Hyoh's fist, and said that wasn't Hokuto Ryu Ken (A martial art that uses alot of Ki) if it was Ki attack, Shachi wouldn't have been surprised. Not to mention that this attack was noticeable faster than Hyoh's casual attacks, Kenshiro barely dodge it where previously he could deflect all Hyoh's attacks. And i'm gonna repeat myself again HNK tends to be a series that accurately describes the techniques and avoids hyperbole, usually the name of the techniques say exactly what the technique does, this is constantly shown through the series, so the name of the technique is a good indicator of the veracity of the attack.
2 Chapter 6
3 Let me explain more clearly, you said "Liu turned around while taking off his cape, as lightning struck" no that's not correct, Liu removes his cape = Lightning passes by him and then he turns, and you can cleary see in the third panel that his cape is totally gone and he isn't in the same position, and then the lightning hits the ground, so it wasn't everything at the same time. You also said "Kenshiro was there. He did not outrun the lightning; he could've been standing behind Liu before the lightning even struck; we're not shown that angle until right after the lightning starts." But that's also not true since Kenshiro was not there, it's shown here note this is the place that Liu is, Kenshiro is not there, actually just a little before we see Liu standing, we see Kenshiro in a totally diferent place. Also i don't think he was standing behind Liu the whole time and Liu didn't notice him, in a totaly OPEN place, Liu is a Hokuto fighter (Hokuto fighters have enhanced senses such as they can smell good as a hound's, they can hear someone whispering from two kilometers away, and can see the aura of a living being in pitch black darkness) and i'm supposed to believe that he didn't notice Kenshiro behind him ? Ken cleary outrunned the lightning.
 
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1. Yes. It's a faster attack. That does not mean it is lightspeed, just because it happens to look like a laser attack at some point - it's clearly a physical attack, there is a comment on it being the true fist of Hokuto, and it cuts rather than burns anyways. It's just called "Scouring Light Palm"; that has no effect on speed.

2. I found the feat. Don't have anything to say about it besides that it might be an outlier, depending on how strong that is. I don't think we should be using untranslated media, though. We don't know the context or who it scales to or anything.

3. Eh. I still don't really see it.
 
I still think that Promestein makes sense.
 
Promestein said:
1. Yes. It's a faster attack. That does not mean it is lightspeed, just because it happens to look like a laser attack at some point - it's clearly a physical attack, there is a comment on it being the true fist of Hokuto, and it cuts rather than burns anyways. It's just called "Scouring Light Palm"; that has no effect on speed.

2. I found the feat. Don't have anything to say about it besides that it might be an outlier, depending on how strong that is. I don't think we should be using untranslated media, though. We don't know the context or who it scales to or anything.

3. Eh. I still don't really see it.
Click to expand...
1 There's nothing to suggest that is physical attack, being called Scouring Light Palm really means something, as i already said multiple times but you seem to ignore HNK tends to be a series that accurately describes the techniques and avoids hyperbole, usually the name of the techniques say exactly what the technique does, this is constantly shown through the series, so the name of the technique is a good indicator of the veracity of the attack. Also Falco Van Der Kool and Garuda's fists burns the opponent.

2 But the attack is translated.

3 Eh. You don't have a argument.
 
Try to be respectful to Promestein please.
 
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