Fist Of The North Star Revision Part 2 (Scaling and Multipliers)

[Stefano4444]

Continuation of this thread, which will focus to revision the Stats, Scaling and Multipliers.

My Kenshiro's profile where we can determinate his scaling/tiers, and then apply to the other characters.

Current calcs evaluated or that still need to be evaluate:

Fist Of The North Star - Jagi Nuke Redux (2008 ver)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Fist of the North Star Assorted Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

Fist of the North Star Assorted Feats (2)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Fist of the North Star Nuke

vsbattles.fandom.com

Fist of the North Star: Kasumi holds up a large staff and a steel ball

vsbattles.fandom.com

Fist Of The North Star: Hyoh throws ten thousand punches.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Fist Of The North Star: Hyoh attacks 1109 pressure points

vsbattles.fandom.com

Jagi distance away from epicenter

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hokuto Ryuken is more dangerous than drying up the ocean: Hagane no Saiyajin's version

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hokuto no Ken: Cloud Split

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Jasonsith]

Just passed by

First thing first, somehow it is previously voted for that Hokuto no Ken high tier characters are somehow baseline FTL by tagging No Shadow Kick which is voted to be defined as baseline FTL feat (it has no "feat display" but the statement of "casting no shadows" has been stated on official media and the action of "casting no shadows" has been deemed to be action moving faster than light instead of leaving no image processed in human brains).

Fist Of The North Star Revision Part 1 (P&A)

Update 1. I made a sandbox for everyone to reorganize the findings about the powers and abilities into a (draft) page format https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Jasonsith/sandbox/Fist_Of_The_North_Star (@Stefano4444 since you are quite devoted in adding the powers and abilities, you may have...

vsbattles.com

Second, I have re-calculated the Jagi nuke surviving feat. Yet to be approved properly.

Fist Of The North Star - Jagi Nuke Redux (2008 ver)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Third, someone please fill in the major battles, stating the results and the timeline (with the character states listed) so that a proper power scaling chain can even be established.
Unless a proper chain is established, everyone is "far higher" than Jagi.
The sandbox link is at below

Jasonsith/sandbox/Fist Of The North Star Scaling

vsbattles.fandom.com

Fourth, for those low tier pawn characters and Z and Mr Heart etc... How do we scale them? Yet to discuss.

 

[Silvervigilant]

I made a doc regarding the scaling, a long time ago, feel free to disagree and ask me whatever you want about the scaling.

 

[Twellas]

We had this version of the nuke calc awaiting evaluation, this one also includes the cloud dispersion

 

[Biturb0bros]

Just passed by

First thing first, somehow it is previously voted for that Hokuto no Ken high tier characters are somehow baseline FTL by tagging No Shadow Kick which is voted to be defined as baseline FTL feat (it has no "feat display" but the statement of "casting no shadows" has been stated on official media and the action of "casting no shadows" has been deemed to be action moving faster than light instead of leaving no image processed in human brains).

Fist Of The North Star Revision Part 1 (P&A)

Update 1. I made a sandbox for everyone to reorganize the findings about the powers and abilities into a (draft) page format https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Jasonsith/sandbox/Fist_Of_The_North_Star (@Stefano4444 since you are quite devoted in adding the powers and abilities, you may have...

vsbattles.com

Second, I have re-calculated the Jagi nuke surviving feat. Yet to be approved properly.

Fist Of The North Star - Jagi Nuke Redux (2008 ver)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Third, someone please fill in the major battles, stating the results and the timeline (with the character states listed) so that a proper power scaling chain can even be established.
Unless a proper chain is established, everyone is "far higher" than Jagi.
The sandbox link is at below

Jasonsith/sandbox/Fist Of The North Star Scaling

vsbattles.fandom.com

Fourth, for those low tier pawn characters and Z and Mr Heart etc... How do we scale them? Yet to discuss.

Sorry I've got 2 questions about the major battles table, first what's the difference between the first field (media) and the second field (media,work,chapter,pages)? Second, what do I put in the "Intensity" field?

 

[Jasonsith]

Sorry I've got 2 questions about the major battles table, first what's the difference between the first field (media) and the second field (media,work,chapter,pages)? Second, what do I put in the "Intensity" field?

How close that battle is.

Note should be given on how the situation changes if each character uses a power up or a super form or an amplification move.




This is where the impact on how different forms and moves affect character tiering should someone wants a scaling chart with different levels ever.

 

[Twellas]

I, for one, realized that there's one possibly very large power boost mid series:
Ken and Toki are equals
Toki THEN goes on to press his Sekkakko (the movie shows Toki pressing the sekkakko right before the fight with Raoh, we also know from Falco's scene that the Sekkakko last a very short time, so it's very unlikely that Toki had already pressed them when he sparred Ken). Due to the nature of the Sekkakko (it gives you a power amp but literally kills you right after), it should logically be at least equal to a random nameless pressure point which can 10x your power (the Sekkakko would serve no purpose if there was a random pressure point which gave an equal or even comparable power amp without any drawbacks).
Toki and Raoh are pretty much equal during the fight (Toki is very slightly stronger, but it doesn't really matter).
A short time after the Toki v Raoh fight (we find out in guidebooks that there's an unknown timeskip between the end of the Toki fight and the Ryuga arc, a time in which Raoh went around the country and met Falco and Kaioh) Ryuga meets Ken and says that he "only knows one other man with this much fighting spirit", that man being Raoh. Ryuga is stated to have started to re-take Raoh's territories "as soon as he left", which means that he met Raoh right after the Toki fight, before he left.

TL;DR:
(Toki v Raoh fight) Ken=base Toki
Sekkakko Toki=Raoh=10x base Toki
(Ryuga arc) Ken=Raoh (during the Toki v Raoh fight)

 

[Twellas]

and about the gap between Raoh/Toki and Ken during their first fight, in Raoh gaiden right before he was locked up in Cassandra, Toki can stop Uighur's charge with 1 finger, whereas Ken needed 6 fingers to stop the same attack. Toki and Raoh being approximately 6 times stronger than Ken at that point is supported by the fact that Raoh can just kinda punch a hole through Ken's chest fairly casually.

 

[Twellas]

Just passed by

First thing first, somehow it is previously voted for that Hokuto no Ken high tier characters are somehow baseline FTL by tagging No Shadow Kick which is voted to be defined as baseline FTL feat (it has no "feat display" but the statement of "casting no shadows" has been stated on official media and the action of "casting no shadows" has been deemed to be action moving faster than light instead of leaving no image processed in human brains).

Fist Of The North Star Revision Part 1 (P&A)

Update 1. I made a sandbox for everyone to reorganize the findings about the powers and abilities into a (draft) page format https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Jasonsith/sandbox/Fist_Of_The_North_Star (@Stefano4444 since you are quite devoted in adding the powers and abilities, you may have...

vsbattles.com

Second, I have re-calculated the Jagi nuke surviving feat. Yet to be approved properly.

Fist Of The North Star - Jagi Nuke Redux (2008 ver)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Third, someone please fill in the major battles, stating the results and the timeline (with the character states listed) so that a proper power scaling chain can even be established.
Unless a proper chain is established, everyone is "far higher" than Jagi.
The sandbox link is at below

Jasonsith/sandbox/Fist Of The North Star Scaling

vsbattles.fandom.com

Fourth, for those low tier pawn characters and Z and Mr Heart etc... How do we scale them? Yet to discuss.

If we take even just the 2 multipliers I mentioned and apply them to the nuke calc, we'd already get a multi-continental result (the nuke calc is 92 teratons of TNT, which is 5.56 petatons if we multiply by 60), ignoring the fact that Ken STARTS OFF multiple times stronger than Jagi to begin with.

This is ignoring the fact that Ken's rage amps are heavily implied to all be permanent 3x multipliers, so every time Ken gets mad he gets 3 times stronger, or the fact that he gets "infinitely stronger" after every fight with a strong opponent, or the fact that certain moves can deal damage that's "several times" above the user itself, I can assure you that if you put your mind to it, you could easily cook up a multiplier chain to get these guys to star level and beyond.

As I said, at this point, we might as well just drop the concept of a multiplier chain, which is convoluted and would SURELY end up giving us results that wouldn't be accepted by the wiki, and just accept the Kaioh and Successor statements which, on top of just being fairly straight forward, are also evidently supported by the scaling chain itself

 

[Stefano4444]

One little thing, should all FotNS's profiles have the same Range as Kenshiro?

 

[Stefano4444]

As I said, at this point, we might as well just drop the concept of a multiplier chain, which is convoluted and would SURELY end up giving us results that wouldn't be accepted by the wiki, and just accept the Kaioh and Successor statements which, on top of just being fairly straight forward, are also evidently supported by the scaling chain itself

That could be an issue, either we need to restrict the multipliers to use or we would have to drop them completely.

 

[Twellas]

That could be an issue, either we need to restrict the multipliers to use or we would have to drop them completely.

the only reason multiplier-chain was even brought up in the first place was as a way to ignore the higher-end statements in the series. I'm already not bringing up all of the Universal statements there are for the series, but if we're gonna ignore all of the verse's best feats/scaling then what even is the point of giving them profiles?

 

[Eseseso]

Second, I have re-calculated the Jagi nuke surviving feat. Yet to be approved properly.

Fist Of The North Star - Jagi Nuke Redux (2008 ver)

vsbattles.fandom.com

@KLOL506 said this was fine.

We had this version of the nuke calc awaiting evaluation, this one also includes the cloud dispersion

@KLOL506 responded but all he said was to "add degrees after 35".

 

[Antvasima]

What currently needs to be evaluated here?

 

[Stefano4444]

What currently needs to be evaluated here?

There are two versions of the Jagi's nuke feat that need to be evaluated and decide which its more accurate.

I have re-calculated the Jagi nuke surviving feat. Yet to be approved properly.

We had this version of the nuke calc awaiting evaluation, this one also includes the cloud dispersion

And then there is the general scaling and multipliers, which the latter need to be potentially removed.

I made a doc regarding the scaling, a long time ago, feel free to disagree and ask me whatever you want about the scaling.

If we take even just the 2 multipliers I mentioned and apply them to the nuke calc, we'd already get a multi-continental result (the nuke calc is 92 teratons of TNT, which is 5.56 petatons if we multiply by 60), ignoring the fact that Ken STARTS OFF multiple times stronger than Jagi to begin with.

This is ignoring the fact that Ken's rage amps are heavily implied to all be permanent 3x multipliers, so every time Ken gets mad he gets 3 times stronger, or the fact that he gets "infinitely stronger" after every fight with a strong opponent, or the fact that certain moves can deal damage that's "several times" above the user itself, I can assure you that if you put your mind to it, you could easily cook up a multiplier chain to get these guys to star level and beyond.

As I said, at this point, we might as well just drop the concept of a multiplier chain, which is convoluted and would SURELY end up giving us results that wouldn't be accepted by the wiki, and just accept the Kaioh and Successor statements which, on top of just being fairly straight forward, are also evidently supported by the scaling chain itself

For Speed in general i think we are fine for Low Tiers to be either At least Speed of Light to FTL via statements that were accepted as relatable.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

I think the Ken going from 30 to 100% precent of his power is fine as a multiplier, but I’m not sure on the other ones.

 

[Eseseso]

@KLOL506 said this was fine.


@KLOL506 responded but all he said was to "add degrees after 35".

 

[Antvasima]

There are two versions of the Jagi's nuke feat that need to be evaluated and decide which its more accurate.

@Mr._Bambu @Therefir @TheRustyOne @DemonGodMitchAubin @Wokistan @Armorchompy @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @CloverDragon03 @M3X_2.0

Are any of you willing to help out here please?

And then there is the general scaling and multipliers, which the latter need to be potentially removed.

For Speed in general i think we are fine for Low Tiers to be either At least Speed of Light to FTL via statements that were accepted as relatable.

You will all have to try to reach an agreement or compromise agreement on your own regarding the scaling. I can probably give a go-ahead afterwards.

@SamanPatou @Jasonsith

Your help would also be appreciated here.

 

[Eseseso]

@KLOL506 said this version of the calc was fine.


@KLOL506 responded but all he said was to "add degrees after 35".

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Jasonsith]

For Speed in general i think we are fine for Low Tiers to be either At least Speed of Light to FTL via statements that were accepted as relatable.

I think the general consensus in the last thread is that "it is voted that 'At least Speed of Light, possibly FTL' is accepted via multiple statements, official guide included".
And I remember I am out-voted.
Just really keep the scans and quote the sources.

Unless you now want to refute such argument.

I think the Ken going from 30 to 100% precent of his power is fine as a multiplier, but I’m not sure on the other ones.

This is the function of Tenryu Kokyu Hou (and Kenshiro said it improved from use of 30% to 100% power/potential/ability). Just there are other multipliers that do "increase in strength by 10 times".

And while I made the skeleton draft for everyone to fill in the fights where who scale to whom and how many multipliers are used... (which is important in adopting the multiplier system) The progress is slow.

Then, every FOTNS mid tier characters (anyone around and above Jagi) just scale above/around Jagi before any multiplier system is set and key phases identified.

Then the low tier characters... Everyone scales above a grunt who can smash a skull and another grunt who survive d a wooden cross falling on their head?

 

[Eseseso]

I think the general consensus in the last thread is that "it is voted that 'At least Speed of Light, possibly FTL' is accepted via multiple statements, official guide included".
And I remember I am out-voted.
Just really keep the scans and quote the sources.

Unless you now want to refute such argument.


This is the function of Tenryu Kokyu Hou (and Kenshiro said it improved from use of 30% to 100% power/potential/ability). Just there are other multipliers that do "increase in strength by 10 times".

And while I made the skeleton draft for everyone to fill in the fights where who scale to whom and how many multipliers are used... (which is important in adopting the multiplier system) The progress is slow.

Then, every FOTNS mid tier characters (anyone around and above Jagi) just scale above/around Jagi before any multiplier system is set and key phases identified.

Then the low tier characters... Everyone scales above a grunt who can smash a skull and another grunt who survive d a wooden cross falling on their head?

KLOL accepted your nuke calc btw

 

[Stefano4444]

bump

 

[Stefano4444]

bump

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

What currently needs to be evaluated here?

 

[Stefano4444]

What currently needs to be evaluated here?

Jasonsith's nuke had been evaluated and accepted by KLOL506, unsure about Shmeatywerbenmanjenson's nuke since KLOL506 say that he needed to add deg after 35, if he already done it when we need to decide which one to use.

After that in terms of feats/statements we should be fine since the SoL statements for Low Tiers characters can still be used, same about Kaioh's Multi-Continental power, which means we would need to talk about scaling and multipliers.

Anyway i'm currently going to be busy for this entire month and aside for the evenings i probably not going be free to help here.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Looking at the original thread again. The keys probably need to be reworked for Kenshiro.

It looks especially bad on his profile as of now.

As for AP, some characters need to be downgraded. Like I don’t think Raoh and others should be High 6-A (more so 6-B+ or High 6-B)

I was just checking the Kenshiro blog and the jump between 6-B and High 6-A is just weird to me.

 

[Stefano4444]

Looking at the original thread again. The keys probably need to be reworked for Kenshiro.

It looks especially bad on his profile as of now.

Kenshior (Stefano4444)

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Stefano4444]

As for AP, some characters need to be downgraded. Like I don’t think Raoh and others should be High 6-A (more so 6-B+ or High 6-B)

Depend of how the powerscaling and multipliers discussion goes there are two outcome either:

• High 6-A would be restricted to just a few, probably just to the guys comparable to Kaioh.
• There will be a chuck of characters who will still downscale to it to a degree.

 

[Jasonsith]

Quantitative attack potency and power scaling - First, once the two nuke feat calculation selection is settled, every character scale from that feat, with tags on "likely higher", "likely far higher" on clearly stronger characters (basically most of them).

Second, fill the table I provided and determine which character scale from which level of multipliers.

Apply changes accordingly.

Qualitative powers and abilities - can be added instantly with usual evaluation.

 

[Eseseso]

Quantitative attack potency and power scaling - First, once the two nuke feat calculation selection is settled, every character scale from that feat, with tags on "likely higher", "likely far higher" on clearly stronger characters (basically most of them).

Second, fill the table I provided and determine which character scale from which level of multipliers.

Apply changes accordingly.

Qualitative powers and abilities - can be added instantly with usual evaluation.

KLOL said your 97 teraton nuke calc was fine.

He said that the other calc feat needed one adjustment, but I think it was adjusted and he just didn't respond.

Since you're a calc member, can't you just check out the other calc?

 

[Kaiser0079]

Bump

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Hi there,

I decided to join this thread on account of Kenshiro getting more keys but each of those keys not having their own ap to go with them

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

What has been accepted here can probably be applied now.

What else currently needs to be done here?

 

[Antvasima]

KLOL said your 97 teraton nuke calc was fine.

He said that the other calc feat needed one adjustment, but I think it was adjusted and he just didn't respond.

Since you're a calc member, can't you just check out the other calc?

@Jasonsith @SamanPatou @Armorchompy @KLOL506 @Ugarik @Therefir @TheRustyOne @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Dalesean027 @CloverDragon03

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Hi there,

I decided to join this thread on account of Kenshiro getting more keys but each of those keys not having their own ap to go with them

boop

 

[Kaiser0079]

What's the current reasoning for Kaioh scaling to Raoh?

 

[Stefano4444]

What's the current reasoning for Kaioh scaling to Raoh?

A restrained Kaioh could defeat Kenshiro at full strength.