We may have our disagreements with SSB, And it's really unfortunate how the end of this tourney has been so far, but right now, it's time to leave the past behind us. Like a DRILL, we have to keep moving forward in spite of any stress or negative influence, and focus on creating a path towards our ideal tomorrow! It doesn't matter what happens in the past, because in the present, we carve our own direction towards a brighter future!
AND THAT'S WHY I CHOOSE TO KEEP GOING! NO BAD EVENT IS GOING TO STOP US FROM ENJOYING THE THREAD! BECAUSE OUR DRILL IS THE DRILL... THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!!!
So I'm bringing this out now again, please people read this, its crucial.
I believe i did address a lot of what vene has said in that reply, but i'll try sum it up:
- Asuna massively upscales from dodging thousands of projectiles during the fight in the dark forest. It was her best dodging feat in beginning-of-series key but she's a lot stronger than that now lol, and this is on dodging alone...
- Javen wouldn't be THAT broken. Even jack, who lacked supernatural willpower, could still move & fight since he was a low sin-meter. Javen is obviously a hero so he will be a low sin-meter too, and having supwill stacked on top of it in any way will obviously help. It's not like he just won't defend himself.
- Asuna & Javen have numerous ways to defend against the red laser storm as i've listed before, like [Intangible] and [Reversal], plus [Fortune] remains a good counter which i'll explain later on here. They aren't limited to just moving around and dodging lol
This desperate solution is Asuna's grave.
It's true Frogman's body (likely including all his clones) gets obliterated if he does this, but it means all the AsuJaven clones, including the originals die.
Not just Red Stickmen, even other Frogmen (with really solid precog) cannot see Red Sabers of other Frogmen in the future (and I even mentioned it here), Asuna is heavily underestimating the consequences of
Tree Saber landing, further if she uses [fortune] to guarantee it. The '
Decay Burning' (also invisible to precog) has many and many sections about its adaptive power on FU pages, it will burn all from which Asuna wants to regen back or recover.
But namely, as Asuna used much of RE to combat
Golden Laser Storm (to which I still have much to say), Frogman uses his precog from that moment => Frogman sees Asuna's damage transferal happening => and he makes sure this gets rid of his enemy for good (as you mentioned, this eventually becomes hard-diff for Frogman even experienced as this).
- Damage Transferal (can transfer effects back, along with Statistics Reduction, upon a clone killed) [still of Stage 2, at Combat Stage 4 it's greatly buffed)
- Damage Transferal (can make 5 out of 41-80 clones transfer damage along changes, like transmutation and reality warping)
It's damage transferal triggered by damage transferal, at this rate so with so many clones capable to slay main Asuna and Javen even if they originally intended to just sacrifice their clones.
Worth mentioning Hecate should take damages here, as she is the only making "clones" from lasers (not actually being her clones, rather a better projectiles she can control with her IQ), in other words its super likely original Hecate survives this.
With attacks out of willpower, possibly even Frogman's BFR's Core will suffer some damages, but after a decent while of recovering (likely notable bigger than the original time should take), it regens back a weaker body of Stage 4 back, which with dimension travel can get through many universes back on the battlefield, where all AsuJaven clones are death.
That makes both Frogtace teammates alive (although tired), while Asujaven teammates are death => 2nd point I'm voting Frogtace here.
There isn't... really anything stopping them from just making more though, they don't run out of clones in their arsenal and that's it
Furthermore javen can likely make far more than asuna can with one skill usage judging from how they fought cobalt, so if asuna transfers [Reversal] to him thanks to javens
Power Absorption, The effects would be even greater than before due to bigger numbers
In this case, the duo will definitely have way more clones than frogman does, and thus he would be living on borrowed time, as he will eventually run out of clones to transfer damage along which i'm certain is what you mean when you say frogmens body and clones could get obliterated.
Plus, even if the clones can freely transfer the damage back to the main asuna & javen, asuna can undo any physical damage she takes with healing magic, and javen is entirely unaffected by High 6-A attacks.
[Fortune] makes the duo statistically much more likely to avoid it if their intent is to reach either frogman or hecate, though. It doesn't guarantee anything bad at all...
Asuna's precog isn't quite the same, though. Frogman seems to get precog through sheer calculative power, but asuna's is also listed as
Instinctive Action which isn't something frogmen have shown to negate afaik. Unless frogman can hide his killing intent, i'm not really convinced asuna's precog just won't work. And even then there's still plenty of ways the duo can defend...
It is possible asuven can immediately give chase to the BFR core. Asuna's riftways have
Interdimensional Range, swhich can travel into parts of other universes, so they are more than capable of following it and destroying it, especially since it is presumably much weaker than the actual stage 4
And even if Asuna & Javen couldn't do this, they still benefit from this, as frogman will be weaker.
Combat Stage4's hard diff arsenal, namely with Hecate's help capable of making trillions of calculations in a row and writing complex programs working on the first try
Not only there is the
Golden Saturn Waving, but Frogman himself has a triumph card in the later fight which can grant him the win even would everything other fail:
- Sandbox Saber - The skill of a highly experienced Stage 4 Frogman practicing for dozens of thousands of years reaches into capability to create his own Saber Modes suiting his goals and personality. Although it's mostly used for developing new personalized moves, with enough time a Saber developed against a specific enemy can be altered, containing new specifically merged powers from the 'Red Laser Ability Pool'.
Normally, to create custom Red Sabers, Frogman needs to practice with them and kinda alter them like "when a blacksmith crafts one, like trial and error". But Hecate's trillion operations in a row would allow to develop a functional saber plan in mid-battle, and Frogman can then draw it, functionating on the first attempt.
So my claim is, what prevents Frogman and Hecate from making a new Anti-Fortune Saber,
a new variant on which interferences of luck or fate have no effects? And not only that,
Sandbox Saber presents a way to catch up with Asuna evolving powers and Javen creating stuff from imagination even in the late game, which normally wouldn't be possible without Hecate.
That is for my third reason I'm voting for Frogtace FRA here, they show to not get left in the dust with RE and ways capable to avoid their attacks.
It is very likely that asuna's
Minor Information Analysis will let her know what's going on and stop them before they achieve this by, well, using [Fortune] for her and javen to land hits anyway, as she can decipher what someone's intent, abilities, & weaknesses are mid-fight, like she did with kedron thanks to her natural battle smarts, even without prior knowledge.
And this is assuming asuven aren't already pressured to do so by Hecate & Frogman's already crazy hax
And while frogman does resist Information Analysis (Like a lot of things lol)
Hecate, Meanwhile, lacks it. This means that, by teaming up with hecate to do this, hecate is only dragging her teammate down, as it will be clear as day to asuna what they are trying to achieve and she and javen will stop them, including using, well, [Fortune] to bring them bad luck in the process while it is active so that they can get hits in. The only option for frogman, therefore, would be to do it by himself, but that would simply take way too much time as mentioned here...
This also doesn't account for the fact that Frogate's impressive brainpower would simultaneously be spent elsewhere as well, such as strategising on the fight, which will still slow down this process by some degree even if they mostly focus on this new saber. In any case, this still isn't guaranteed to work at all, especially when there's other wincons for asuven like the
Star Strategy (Which i planned to expand upon, but i wanna keep this as short as possible so i don't upset an already-stressed froggy...) So covering for fortune is only one piece of the puzzle
