Final Fantasy Tactics Upgrades

[Comicgyal]

This is a relatively straightforward crt, so let’s get into it.

In Final fantasy tactics, the main party comes across two pretty notable characters. One being Balthier, and also Gilgamesh. As already established by previous threads, all Gilgamesh’s are the same. Which means the Gilgamesh in tactics should scale to his 2-C rating.

Due to the party not only fighting Gilgamesh, but keeping up with Baltheir who fought Gilgamesh in FF XII, they should also scale to 2-C.

Their new rating can maybe go as follows:

Low Multiverse level (Can defeat Gilgamesh, and keep up with Baltheir)
Just to keep it simple.

---

The scaling will also apply to Cloud, and certain characters from og FF7. When Cloud arrives, we find out that he’s from another world. This is Cloud after he fell into the lifestream, as referenced by him. It’s why his memories are also jumbled. He stays part of the main party, which means he scales similarly.

Due to the lifestream having a different flow of time then the normal world, if not flat out transcending it, it’s completely possible for Cloud to have spent time in the tactics universe and then returned to his own. Tifa, Sephiroth, and Vincent should scale to Cloud.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Seems simple enough.

 

[Theglassman12]

Looks good to me, there's likely some more buffs to cover for 7 and all of Ivalice but we'll get to those when we tackle them all.

 

[Dalesean027]

Hell yeah I agree

 

[ZetaMarishi]

Makes enough sense to me, to be honest.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Why does Cloud scale? Being on the same party doesn't mean you have to be equal to all other party members

 

[Comicgyal]

The party gets to fight Gilgamesh, Cloud would be part of that as well due to being apart of the main party.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

But if his memories are jumbled, then wouldn't cloud be weaker in FF tactics since memories are the source of his power? Another key should be added for tactics

 

[Comicgyal]

He wouldn’t be weaker, his memories aren’t the main source of his power in the way you’re implying. He still knows how to fight, he remembers Sephiroth, and other things. Also it’s the same Cloud as og cloud so I see no need in making a new key.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Tarta is working on a full tactics rework

 

[Comicgyal]

That’s fine, this thread seems fine to apply in the meantime then.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

He wouldn’t be weaker, his memories aren’t the main source of his power in the way you’re implying. He still knows how to fight, he remembers Sephiroth, and other things. Also it’s the same Cloud as og cloud so I see no need in making a new key.

yes memories can be tapped in to increase piwer

 

[Comicgyal]

Sure, doesn’t mean he’s weaker. If anything he’s stronger, due to fighting much stronger enemies.

 

[Comicgyal]

Should have enough approvals to go ahead and start applying this, if everyone else is fine?

 

[Theglassman12]

I’m fine with it.

 

[Comicgyal]

Okay, for the FF7 profiles should 2-C be added to their “Post Midgar to Whirlwind Maze” onwards? Or their final battle keys? Cloud left a bit before the final battle, so I think the post midgar keys being 2-C inwards is fine.

 

[Theglassman12]

I prefer the final battle keys to be on that level.

 

[Comicgyal]

can you unlock the tactics characters, and profiles for 7?

 

[Theglassman12]

@DarkDragonMedeus can do it, I can’t unlock pages

 

[Comicgyal]

As I do this revision, i realize a lot of other profiles would be affected. Namely the Advent Children, as they’re regarded to be as strong as sephiroth. So they can either get a blatant 2-C, or a “Atleast 2-C” which is what Sephiroth has. Kadaj is stated to he as strong as Og sephiroth, if not stronger, so he can probably just get a 2-C rating. What do you all think?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I am sorry but

When do you fight Gilgamesh In Final Fantasy Tactics?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

This is a relatively straightforward crt, so let’s get into it.

In Final fantasy tactics, the main party comes across two pretty notable characters. One being Balthier, and also Gilgamesh.

This is a play through of Souls of Destiny, a full game length story """""""""""""mod""""""""""""" of Final Fantasy Tactics. This is an alternate universe story in which many of the original characters still feature in important roles. In addition to a new story, it contains dozens of new sprites, new maps, new spell effects and music imported from other games. Currently this is a beta version and has some spelling errors, events that need some cleaning up and the Deep Dungeon isn't complete.

Are you trying to scale characters using a mod...?

 

[Comicgyal]

Are y

This is a play through of Souls of Destiny, a full game length story """""""""""""mod""""""""""""" of Final Fantasy Tactics. This is an alternate universe story in which many of the original characters still feature in important roles. In addition to a new story, it contains dozens of new sprites, new maps, new spell effects and music imported from other games. Currently this is a beta version and has some spelling errors, events that need some cleaning up and the Deep Dungeon isn't complete.

Are you trying to scale characters using a mod...?

Are you saying the gameplay shown (against Gilgamesh) isn’t actually in the main tactics story, but was instead modded in?

 

[Shmooply]

This is a play through of Souls of Destiny, a full game length story """""""""""""mod""""""""""""" of Final Fantasy Tactics. This is an alternate universe story in which many of the original characters still feature in important roles. In addition to a new story, it contains dozens of new sprites, new maps, new spell effects and music imported from other games. Currently this is a beta version and has some spelling errors, events that need some cleaning up and the Deep Dungeon isn't complete.

Are you trying to scale characters using a mod...?

The VSBW brainrot is strong with this one. Disagree because of Kazuma's reasons.

Are you saying the gameplay shown (against Gilgamesh) isn’t actually in the main tactics story, but was instead modded in?

Yea, as written in the description:
This is a play through of Souls of Destiny, a full game length story mod of Final Fantasy Tactics. This is an alternate universe story in which many of the original characters still feature in important roles.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Are y

Are you saying the gameplay shown (against Gilgamesh) isn’t actually in the main tactics story, but was instead modded in?

The gameplay is from a mod...

I was like "Gilgamesh appears in tactics? no way"

I searched in ff wiki, I searched it in youtube, nothing

Your video says "mod" in it, is not canon

Gilgamesh appears in ff12 but his lore is completely different[edit:I read the thread about gilgamesh lore right now,fair enough], but that is another topic, gilgamesh does not appear in tactics, the end

 

[Comicgyal]

Okay, thank you for clearing that up.

Baltheir is also a character that appears in tactics, who fights Gilgamesh as well. So the scaling would just be shifted from Gilgamesh, to Baltheir.

 

[Theglassman12]

if that's the case, then just scaling Cloud to Balthier is fine.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Lmao, close one.

 

[Comicgyal]

Yeah, thankfully I only edited a few profiles.. will change them momentarily.

 

[Comicgyal]

As I do this revision, i realize a lot of other profiles would be affected. Namely the Advent Children, as they’re regarded to be as strong as sephiroth. So they can either get a blatant 2-C, or a “Atleast 2-C” which is what Sephiroth has. Kadaj is stated to he as strong as Og sephiroth, if not stronger, so he can probably just get a 2-C rating. What do you all think?

Anyways, back to this question.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

As I do this revision, i realize a lot of other profiles would be affected. Namely the Advent Children, as they’re regarded to be as strong as sephiroth. So they can either get a blatant 2-C, or a “Atleast 2-C” which is what Sephiroth has. Kadaj is stated to he as strong as Og sephiroth, if not stronger, so he can probably just get a 2-C rating. What do you all think?

If they are stated, 2-C

If not, I would buy the at least 2-C

 

[Comicgyal]

I don’t know much about Vincent, so I’ll save his profile for last. If anyone could help me with the justifications for him, it would be appreciated.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I know I'm late in saying this but the fact Gilgamesh can apparently summon the incredible Hulk from Marvel should've been a dead give away... heh!


Regardless still amusing to see Gilgamesh related scaling giving 2-Cs ratings away like candy, also good luck with scaling when you get to the Ivalice Alliance games there's at least six games that takes place in the canon timeline (Vagrant Story, FF12, FF12-2RW, FFTA, FFTA2 and FFTWotL) plus potentially funky crossover scaling from FF14.

As I do this revision, i realize a lot of other profiles would be affected. Namely the Advent Children, as they’re regarded to be as strong as sephiroth. So they can either get a blatant 2-C, or a “Atleast 2-C” which is what Sephiroth has. Kadaj is stated to he as strong as Og sephiroth, if not stronger, so he can probably just get a 2-C rating. What do you all think?

To further solidify cross-scaling via FF12xFF7 Cloud gets isekai'ed, you can actually fight Gilgamesh again in FF12-RW (takes place after FF12 but before FFTA2) and recruit him as a summon here, this is important because in FFT you can also recruit Luso (from FFTA2) who can recruit, keep up and cross swords with Vaan (who at this point has defeated Gil twice already) also it's implied this (which is already rated 3-A possibly L2-C with it's ultimate attack/Adult form) is comparable to Gil if not superior (as shown in the first link), this is important because Cloud can potentially fight an opponent that summons Zodiark shown here (skip to 18:53).

Cliff-notes version for addtional jurisdictions: Cloud (pre-Advent Children) can fight alongside a character that fought Gilgamesh (and Zodiark) twice (Baltheir), A character that has kept up FF12 party members (Luso) and Cloud himself can survive a potentially tier 2 attack.

Sorry for my mini nerd rant.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Fun fact

The Gilgamesh from ff12 has a dragon quest sword

 

[Comicgyal]

I know I'm late in saying this but the fact Gilgamesh can apparently summon the incredible Hulk from Marvel should've been a dead give away... heh!


Regardless still amusing to see Gilgamesh related scaling giving 2-Cs ratings away like candy, also good luck with scaling when you get to the Ivalice Alliance games there's at least six games that takes place in the canon timeline (Vagrant Story, FF12, FF12-2RW, FFTA, FFTA2 and FFTWotL) plus potentially funky crossover scaling from FF14.

To further solidify cross-scaling via FF12xFF7 Cloud gets isekai'ed, you can actually fight Gilgamesh again in FF12-RW (takes place after FF12 but before FFTA2) and recruit him as a summon here, this is important because in FFT you can also recruit Luso (from FFTA2) who can recruit, keep up and cross swords with Vaan (who at this point has defeated Gil twice already) also it's implied this (which is already rated 3-A possibly L2-C with it's ultimate attack/Adult form) is comparable to Gil if not superior (as shown in the first link), this is important because Cloud can potentially fight an opponent that summons Zodiark shown here (skip to 18:53).

Cliff-notes version for addtional jurisdictions: Cloud (pre-Advent Children) can fight alongside a character that fought Gilgamesh (and Zodiark) twice (Baltheir), A character that has kept up FF12 party members (Luso) and Cloud himself can survive a potentially tier 2 attack.

Sorry for my mini nerd rant.

I appreciate the input! Do you think Clouds current justification could use more expansion? Is so, could you write an example?

 

[TartaChocholate]

Well... this is a bit awkward. But, Axiom is right on how this work, Gilgamesh pretty much hands over 2-C like flyers due to how he crosses to so many different settings. I did write up some detail on how the scaling works and applies to him here (though it differs a bit on the consensus, since I simply put it as "possibly"), if it helps. Though a minor thing, Tactics A2, I think explains that Lucavi summoned by Summoners con only use an echo of their power while those that manifest through an Auracite using a host is actually at full power.

Now, if you ask me, Cloud was considerably weakened after his fall on the Lifestream, which is reflected gameplay wise in him being level 1, having none of his abilities and being back to holding to his fake persona. But he could quickly regain his strength and catch up with the rest, reason why he could stay in Ramza's army.

BTW, there are several other things in the blogs there. All of them are works in progress so don't take them at face value yet.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Fun fact

The Gilgamesh from ff12 has a dragon quest sword

Isn't implied all (at least most) of those swords are counterfeit? Also PTSD of the unnecessary PAIN of unlocking the Wyrmhero Blade in the OG version of FF12.

I appreciate the input! Do you think Clouds current justification could use more expansion? Is so, could you write an example?

The isekai part is fine, personally I would put "can keep up with Baltheir who (alongside Vaan) defeated Gilgamesh, Cloud can also potentially survive the full power attack of Zodiark (who was also defeated by Baltheir and Vaan)".

Until Baltheir gets a profile, I think this is the best jurisdiction you can get (currently) imo.

 

[Comicgyal]

Well... this is a bit awkward. But, Axiom is right on how this work, Gilgamesh pretty much hands over 2-C like flyers due to how he crosses to so many different settings. I did write up some detail on how the scaling works and applies to him here (though it differs a bit on the consensus, since I simply put it as "possibly"), if it helps. Though a minor thing, Tactics A2, I think explains that Lucavi summoned by Summoners con only use an echo of their power while those that manifest through an Auracite using a host is actually at full power.

Now, if you ask me, Cloud was considerably weakened after his fall on the Lifestream, which is reflected gameplay wise in him being level 1, having none of his abilities and being back to holding to his fake persona. But he could quickly regain his strength and catch up with the rest, reason why he could stay in Ramza's army.

BTW, there are several other things in the blogs there. All of them are works in progress so don't take them at face value yet.

Wow this is massive! And definitely affects more characters than I mentioned. How do you want to handle this in relation to the current thread and upgrades being applied?

 

[Comicgyal]

Isn't implied all (at least most) of those swords are counterfeit? Also PTSD of the unnecessary PAIN of unlocking the Wyrmhero Blade in the OG version of FF12.

The isekai part is fine, personally I would put "can keep up with Baltheir who (alongside Vaan) defeated Gilgamesh, Cloud can also potentially survive the full power attack of Zodiark (who was also defeated by Baltheir and Vaan)".

Until Baltheir gets a profile, I think this is the best jurisdiction you can get (currently) imo.

Thanks, I’ll change it to this then!

 

[Comicgyal]

Will also note on the profile that cloud was in a weakened state when performing this.