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We have a lot to cover. There's little need to waste everyone's time with an introduction, because this is an important revision. Let's begin, shall we?
GENERAL STATISTICS REVISIONS
Yes, this deserves its own section. Gilgamesh has been a point of... contention in this community when it comes to scaling, due to the fact that nobody appeared to have enough knowledge to handle scaling him until now. However, when looking at his appearances, a clear timeline of feats and scaling begins to come into view. I'll go over each of his appearances and how they tie into the different games.
Tier: 5-A, Higher with more arms | 5-A, up to 4-A with more arms | 2-C | 2-C | 2-A
Attack Potency: Large Planet Level (Proved a match for Bartz and the party on more than one occasion, including Galuf), Higher with more arms (Matched the Endgame party in his eight-armed form, and dealt severe damage to Necrophobe, though he ultimately had to self-destruct in order to kill him) | Large Planet Level (Should be stronger than before. In his base form, he is considered to be the strongest esper, which would make him more powerful than Alexander and able to damage God Kefka), up to Multi-Solar System Level with more arms (He can fight foes that give the likes of Squall Leonhart trouble. Defeated Seifer Almasy) | Low Multiverse Level (Participated in the Dissidia Conflicts. Wields a weapon created from Chaos' nail) | Low Multiverse Level (Fought on par with the Warrior of Light) | Multiverse Level+ (Matched the Warrior of Light in their rematch, after the former had grown far stronger)
Speed: Sub-Relativistic (Capable of keeping pace with the likes of Bartz) | Sub-Relativistic (Matched the Final Fantasy VI Cast), up to FTL+ with more arms (Should be comparable to Squall) | Massively FTL+ (Comparable to the Warrior of Light and other members of Dissidia) | Massively FTL+ (Should be as fast as before) | Infinite (Kept pace with the Warrior of Light)
Key: Final Fantasy V | Final Fantasy VIII Through XII | Dissidia Final Fantasy and Final Fantasy XIII | Final Fantasy XIV (Pre-Stormblood) | Final Fantasy XIV (Stormblood)
So that's about it for revisions so far. Much more will be coming soon enough.
GENERAL STATISTICS REVISIONS
- All characters that participated in the Dissidia Conflicts should receive an extra key with the stats of 2-C and Massively FTL+.
- This is due to them receiving power from the gods Chaos, Cosmos, Spiritus, and Materia. As was discussed in this revision thread, which was unanimously agreed upon including by multiple staff members, characters during the dissidia conflicts scale to this due to the specific plot points of that game, and it doesn't interfere with scaling or the main games, though it IS canon to the greater final fantasy timelines for each character. The exception to the above is Gilgamesh, who doesn't receive power from the gods, yet would still receive a key due to being able to fight Bartz.
- The list of characters that would receive this key are here.
- Final Fantasy V needs to have its 4-A rating removed.
- This comes from the cast scaling to an eight-armed gilgamesh, who was capable of fighting foes that gave Squall Leonhart trouble. The issue with this is that Gilgamesh's power isn't consistent; he's generally shown to have a linear increase in power across each game he ventures into. From 5-A in FF5 to 4-A in FF8 to 2-C in Dissidia to 2-A in Final Fantasy XIV. Gilgamesh needs multiple keys which I'll discuss below.
- Final Fantasy IV's speed should be upgraded to Massively FTL+.
- This comes from this calc for the speed of Meteor, which has been accepted. The cast is capable of dodging this spell and fighting enemies that are capable of the same. This would apply to both keys. Quite the upgrade from Massively Hypersonic, to be sure.
- Final Fantasy VII's cast need a buff to their speed and their range, as well as their lifting strength.
- Speed and Range is a relatively minor change as it wouldn't change their actual speed tiering, but Red XIII's Cosmo Memory limit break is stated to fire energy from the stars toward the enemy. The speed for this is significantly higher than the measly 1500c or so that Bahamut Fury is currently capable of, and would also give the party Interstellar range with their limit breaks. Pretty consistent considering people like Sephiroth have limit breaks containing galaxies within them.
- Lifting Strength would come from resisting and overpowering Sephiroth's telekinesis in the final fight, which has been calculated to this level in this user blog and accepted.
- Final Fantasy XIV's Warrior of Light should be upgraded to 2-C in his base key.
- This is due to the Gilgamesh revisions that I'll cover below. Basically, the Warrior only has a rating of 5-A/4-A due to fighting Gilgamesh in the first place. However, as I'm about to discuss, Gilgamesh is far more powerful by that point. That said, he wouldn't scale to the 14 universes that his later keys scale to, only to the baseline 2 universes that the dissidia gods scale to.
Yes, this deserves its own section. Gilgamesh has been a point of... contention in this community when it comes to scaling, due to the fact that nobody appeared to have enough knowledge to handle scaling him until now. However, when looking at his appearances, a clear timeline of feats and scaling begins to come into view. I'll go over each of his appearances and how they tie into the different games.
- Final Fantasy Type-0: This is Gilgamesh's first appearance, as an I'cie from the Lorican Alliance. This is also his only appearance thus far to not have any reference to Bartz or the Rift, though he does still retain characteristics from the Gil we all know and love, such as his weapons collection. Tiering-wise, I have no idea where Gilgamesh falls, and it may be best to avoid a key for this for now as Type-0 doesn't have pages (We'd have to work on that).
- Final Fantasy V: Obviously his first appearance chronologically and where he gets many of his main traits from. This is where he first falls into the Rift and becomes an interdimensional traveller. At this point in his life, Gilgamesh is 5-A due to scaling that's already on his page, matching the party including Galuf. You may be wondering about his transformed key, but it's... actually kind of featless in this game. He has two moments when transformed, those being fighting the party in Exdeath's Castle (And totally failing due to his usage of Excalipoor), and fighting on-par with Final Fantasy V's late-game party that's still 5-A anyway, taking down Necrophobe and surviving multiple hits from him.
- Final Fantasy VIII: This is Gilgamesh's next appearance after V, something which is well-established at this point and is even on his profile for scaling purposes. Feats-wise, Gilgamesh is rated 5-A, up to 4-A with more arms for scaling to Squall and the like, this being in his five-armed form.
- Final Fantasy VII, IX, and X: Gilgamesh has to have gone to the first three of these before he went to Ivalice, as I will explain soon. He doesn't do any fighting in 7, 9, or 10, which means he has no contradictions in scaling at this point.
- Final Fantasy I, IV, and VI: These three are interesting, because none of them really fit into the timeline anywhere. However, we can reasonably put them at this point, as Gilgamesh does make fighting appearances in all three of them, all in his base, two-armed form. This would continue making his base form 5-A (As he wouldn't scale to the 2-C Warrior of Light who at this point has only defeated Kraken)
- Final Fantasy XII: At this point, Gilgamesh has replicas of Cloud's, Squall's, Zidane's, and Tidus' main weapons, which means he must have at least visited those four's respective worlds by the time that he emerged in Ivalice. The party fights him in his six-armed form at this point, which would make him more powerful than his incarnation in Final Fantasy 8, though still with no need to change his tiering.
- Dissidia Final Fantasy: Gilgamesh makes a major appearance here, and it's actually surprisingly important to his character from a scaling standpoint. Gilgamesh recognizes Bartz, and has his abilities and appearance from 8. Zidane also vaguely recognizes him, though mentions he doesn't think it's him because he only has two arms (I should note that Gil was in his multi-armed form at all times in IX). Vaan asks if he knows him, implying that Gilgamesh has been to 12 by the time he appeared in Dissidia. Now, why is this important to his scaling, and why isn't this just an outlier? Well, it's quite simple. Unlike all the other characters, Gilgamesh isn't borrowing power from Chaos or Cosmos. He also implies to Bartz that he's gotten stronger since their last meeting, and after their fight, remarks that Bartz has gotten stronger as well, the two of them fighting on equal terms. At this point, Gilgamesh should thus safely be 2-C due to scaling to the cast of Dissidia, whose stats have been accepted here.
- Final Fantasy XIII: Gilgamesh's next appearance is here, something that we can tell due to a multitude of details. Firstly, he bears weaponry from the worlds of 6, 9, 10, and even 13 itself, but most importantly, there are two details. One, Gilgamesh directly references the Dissidia conflicts and his participation in them, and Two, Gilgamesh outright wields one of Chaos' nails, fashioned into a weapon. This should make him still reliably 2-C by this point.
- Final Fantasy XIV: The last point in the timeline, and the one that makes the most sense for him to be there. At this point he fights Post-ARR Warrior of Light, who is a much higher end of 2-C due to the feats performed in that game, and he also ends up appearing again in Stormblood, where he fights the 2-A Warrior of Light. Simply from a scaling standpoint, this is where Gilgamesh hits his peak.
Tier: 5-A, Higher with more arms | 5-A, up to 4-A with more arms | 2-C | 2-C | 2-A
Attack Potency: Large Planet Level (Proved a match for Bartz and the party on more than one occasion, including Galuf), Higher with more arms (Matched the Endgame party in his eight-armed form, and dealt severe damage to Necrophobe, though he ultimately had to self-destruct in order to kill him) | Large Planet Level (Should be stronger than before. In his base form, he is considered to be the strongest esper, which would make him more powerful than Alexander and able to damage God Kefka), up to Multi-Solar System Level with more arms (He can fight foes that give the likes of Squall Leonhart trouble. Defeated Seifer Almasy) | Low Multiverse Level (Participated in the Dissidia Conflicts. Wields a weapon created from Chaos' nail) | Low Multiverse Level (Fought on par with the Warrior of Light) | Multiverse Level+ (Matched the Warrior of Light in their rematch, after the former had grown far stronger)
Speed: Sub-Relativistic (Capable of keeping pace with the likes of Bartz) | Sub-Relativistic (Matched the Final Fantasy VI Cast), up to FTL+ with more arms (Should be comparable to Squall) | Massively FTL+ (Comparable to the Warrior of Light and other members of Dissidia) | Massively FTL+ (Should be as fast as before) | Infinite (Kept pace with the Warrior of Light)
Key: Final Fantasy V | Final Fantasy VIII Through XII | Dissidia Final Fantasy and Final Fantasy XIII | Final Fantasy XIV (Pre-Stormblood) | Final Fantasy XIV (Stormblood)
So that's about it for revisions so far. Much more will be coming soon enough.
