Fighting game standards

[Theglassman12]

This was something that kind of fell to the wayside a long time ago, and I figured we'd might as well try to get this general standards up and running for the site.

To summarize, back in 2018, we had an issue regarding how fighting game scaling was even handled to where virtually every single character just cross scaled despite more often than not, the story doesn't always treat that as a blatant scaling and context can be missing with the feats. Then fast forward to 2020, we had a more glaring issue with a verse like Mortal Kombat where fatalities just become way too contradictory to be used for scaling, or even some stage transitions being contradicted by either other lesser forms of stage transitions being enough to kill someone, or in the story, the characters consistently showcase far weaker end feats for a franchise despite having some ultra mega super that would put them much higher.

It's with these in mind, on top of some folks not being fully aware of what actually counts for scaling with super moves in the first place not long after that, I believe we should have some standard page akin to something like our Crossover page. That way we can at least make it crystal clear on whether Arcade modes, versus mode stuff or even supers can be viable to scale for any fighting game verse.

I've made a sandbox to explain the whole standards for fighting games as a whole due to the weird complications this genre has compared to other forms of video games, this at the very least can help whether or not certain things can be scalable for any fighting game or not.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I went over this with you and added stuff in myself so yeah, I agree with this revision

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Looking through that sandbox and the examples seems legitimate.

I agree

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me.

 

[Hellbeast]

This seems good and I’ve always kinda hated how we don’t have hard standards for this

 

[Dalesean027]

This seems fine

I assume this same thing applies to feats that happen in game trailers (reveal, launch, character trailers, etc.) as well and if they're referenced or not im some way in lore as well.

 

[CloverDragon03]

This seems fine

I assume this same thing applies to feats that happen in game trailers (reveal, launch, character trailers, etc.) as well and if they're referenced or not im some way in lore as well.

I mean yeah, though I figured stuff like that would just apply to games as a whole (since this kinda thing definitely isn't limited to fighting games)

 

[Dalesean027]

I mean yeah, though I figured stuff like that would just apply to games as a whole (since this kinda thing definitely isn't limited to fighting games)

Nah usually like take Rainbow 6 character stuff is in the characters lore shit as well. Other than that I can't really think of games outside of fighting games that really have those kinds of character trailers unless its like some hero based shooter.

I mean Fortnite trailers are the plot of the game, Marvel's Rivals as well, Overwatch too so its really dependent on the series but my point is usually fighting game character trailers contradict the actual stuff as well

 

[Theglassman12]

@ActuallySpaceMan42 @Planck69 @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @DarkGrath @SamanPatou your inputs here would be appreciated

 

[Qawsedf234]

So I like the page. I do have one note, that being that for these pages it's best to not solo focus on one franchise for any one area. So in my view this section:

Disqualifies: Finishers that are contradicted in overall power levels in the story or stage transitions that fluctuate in terms of what does or doesn't kill.

Smoke in Midway Mortal Kombat having a Fatality of blowing up the planet with his bombs in a suicide attempt, where Raiden - a stronger character than Smoke - does a similar suicide nuke and it not only destroying just the Dragon Temple, but canonically killing Shang Tsung while Liu Kang's soul was absorbed.
Cetrion's Fatality of being capable of growing larger than the entire planet gets contradicted in the main story where she's stated to tax her power maintaining a bridge that is meant to carry an army across a body of water.
Midway Mortal Kombat stage transitions have characters survive numerous destructive showcases, but many of their stage fatalities show them die to far weaker forms of destruction like a pillar falling on them or a high fall being enough to splatter them to pieces.

Should include non-MK examples of what doesn't count. I'd keep something like Cetrion, but it would hurt to through non-canon examples from like Injustice or MvC or something along those lines.

 

[Genericstickman]

I'm surprised Sub-Zero's spine rip isn't in the qualified section of the Finishing Movies examples since it's one of the most well known Fatalities that is also canon as that's how Scorpion dies in Mythologies as if you fail to perform it Scorpion doesn't die and you get a different cutscene later on

 

[Theglassman12]

@Qawsedf234 if you have any examples we can use from other fighting game franchises by all means, I’m all ears. I’ve asked other staff members who are more active with revising fighting game franchises on the site and I got some input but didn’t really get much proper additions from other series I’m not the most familiar with beyond Clover adding some guilty gear examples.

 

[Qawsedf234]

you have any examples we can use from other fighting game franchises by all means, I’m all ears.

In Injustice any character can survive a stage transition, including characters that would suffer great injury/death from such things like Green Arrow canonically

Pretty sure Street Fighter has a bunch of Stage KOs where like, elephants or power generators finish off a character or knock them out.

 

[Theglassman12]

Isn't Injustice a special case though, given the whole plot pills they consume let them survive stuff like gunshots and can throw hands with kryptonians?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm surprised Sub-Zero's spine rip isn't in the qualified section of the Finishing Movies examples since it's one of the most well known Fatalities that is also canon as that's how Scorpion dies in Mythologies as if you fail to perform it Scorpion doesn't die and you get a different cutscene later on

Scorpion also more or less copies Sub-Zero's fatality move to kill Sub-Zero in MK9.

 

[Theglassman12]

I've added the spine rip fatality into the page given its canonical showing.

 

[SamanPatou]

The page overall is fine, but I believe it still needs some work to cover some things, but this thread is a good place for a joint work.
Using our private conversation for simplicity, I'll quickly list some points the page should cover.

Address in some way games where the final winner is unclear or unknown, which in my opinion can work on a "every ending is a potential possibility" unless contradicted by something else, like explicit powerscaling.
Netherrealm's dialogues are a dangerous example, because not every single one of the vs mode dialogues are meant to be canon, they often are nods or references to external things or just alternate timelines, they follow more a rule of the cool more than an having an exposition purpose.

We might mention bonust stages and minigames too, two famous one are Street Fighter's car smashing and MK's test your might, but most fighting games have these things. I also always go with a "valid for everyone rule" unless contradicted.

Gameplay and moveset-related mechanics are a fundamental topic to address in my opinion, as they reside in-between the canon and the game mechanics and are heavily reliant on a case-by-case basis.

I'm leaving here some more example of quotes that can be used or not (the links are to wiki images or yt videos).

• Karin, FANG, Lily (another), AKI: They talk about their own abilites or weakness (AKI), so they should be fine, as they don't seem influenced by vs mode bias. Example from another verse: Nakoruru (another)
• Dee Jay and Menat they talk about the opponent, but not in a biased-belittling way induced by having won an arbitrary battle, so they should work as further exposition. Kyoshiro does the same, to provide an exmaple from a different verse.
• Zangief states Fang's poison doesn't work on him. This is a dangerous assumption, as it is probably biased by having scored a victory in an artificial setting, so it should not be used. Such quotes are pretty common against characters who use poison, fire or else.
• Tam Tam stating fire doesn't work on him because he's blessed by the sun god. This is both exposition about themselves but also possibly belittling of the enemy, so I put it only as possibly because it might stand to reason anyway. Nakoruru does a similar thing, but it's related to an ability he's already showed in other occasions, so it might have more reliability. Same again for Ukyo, might be biased, might not, I put is as a possibly.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Isn't Injustice a special case though, given the whole plot pills they consume let them survive stuff like gunshots and can throw hands with kryptonians?

Injustice 2 doesn't have that and all the same issues still apply.

 

[Hellbeast]

Nah that’s only the first game and comic; there’s no mention of the pills in the second game or comic and as per Year Five these pills are basically a rarity now.

So it explains some instances but not all of them

Isn't Injustice a special case though, given the whole plot pills they consume let them survive stuff like gunshots and can throw hands with kryptonians?

 

[Hellbeast]

Scorpion also more or less copies Sub-Zero's fatality move to kill Sub-Zero in MK9.

Dvorah does her second fatality against Baraka in X and seemingly her weird Alien style one in MK11 against Kotal

 

[Theglassman12]

I've updated the page with some of the newer examples brought up.

 

[Planck69]

I think the updated page is fine.

 

[Theglassman12]

I’ll wait for one more approval to be safe before I add this as an official page on the wiki.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Bump

 

[Catzlaflame]

This makes sense, I agree with the addition of this page.

 

[Elizhaa]

The page seems fine.

 

[Homie890]

(dunno if this is an mod only thread,so feel free to delete my comment in case it is)
so,would this apply to other games that aren't fighting games or no?

 

[CloverDragon03]

(dunno if this is an mod only thread,so feel free to delete my comment in case it is)
so,would this apply to other games that aren't fighting games or no?

No, this is specifically for fighting game scaling

 

[KingTempest]

Looks good

 

[Theglassman12]

The page has been made, this can be closed