Fawful Having Durability Negation

[Agnaa]

Fawful had Durability Negation added two months ago. It was added alongside other changes accepted in a CRT, although this durability negation point wasn't mentioned in that CRT https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Fawful&diff=3908715&oldid=3798610

I had a conversation with the person who added it on their wall. As I understand it, their point is that Fawful's Mind Manipulation and Negation count as Durability Negation. My point is that they don't, they're just haxxy abilities that don't negate durability since they don't do damage.

Should this durability negation be removed or not?

 

[Eficiente]

Ignoring durability doesn't just mean doing damage, it means doing anything that gets pass durability. This is pretty simple, unless this is one of the cases where we ignore common sense, like we will with Adhesivity's future name.

 

[Agnaa]

That's not how we use durability negation, read the page. Not every mind manip, BFR, empathic manip, etc user has durability negation from these abilities.

 

[Kaltias]

Aside from the fact that durability negation is damaging someone regardless of their durability, even if those are unaffected by higher durability there is really no point in noting it because it's the standard for mind hax.

Durability negation in general is more a page explaining "Certain powers can bypass durability" rather than an actual power, because 99,99% of the people negating durability on the wiki do it via soul hax, matter manip, EE, etc anyway.

It should be noted when it's not inherently part of the power being used, as an example, Akro has durability negation via magic noted because it's not a standard assumption, but no note for EE, soul hax, death hax, life absorption etc, because those bypass dura by default

 

[Eficiente]

The very example we have on the page shows something that ignores durability but does no damage. The page should be called "Damage that Ignores Durability" if we do not take that as durability negation.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, the definition on the page is literally "The ability that allows users to damage the target, regardless of its durability."

I agree that the example is bad, but that's a different topic.

 

[Agnaa]

Examples from the page:

Laser, at negligible AP easily cuts through thick steel sheets, damage that ignores durability.

Attacking internal organs, damage that ignores durability.

Energy manipulation, specifies that it's sometimes damage that ignores durability.

Matter manipulation, specifies that it's sometimes damage that ignores durability.

Mind control, specifies that sometimes, in cases of shutting down the opponent's brain or forcing the opponent to commit suicide, it can be damage that ignores durability.

Soul manipulation, damage to the souls can be damage that ignores durability.

Information manipulation, probably the weakest one but altering the programming language of reality itself could let people cause damage in a way that ignores durability.

Space-time manipulation, damage that ignores durability by distorting space.

Reality warping, another weak one, but this is about affecting matter in a way that ignores durability.

Conceptual manipulation, specifies that it's sometimes damage that ignores durability, such as by using the concept of absolute weapon.

Magic, when mimicing the above effects can deal damage that ignores durability.

The tone from the page seems to very clearly be about dealing damage that ignores durability, with only two weak examples.

 

[Eficiente]

Then again, why? Why are we doing this? It's bad for the wiki, no part of "durability negation" implies damage being done.

 

[Agnaa]

If you want to rename durability negation (which I very seriously doubt will happen) you can make a thread for it, but this name's been good enough for the wiki for the last ~4 years.

The name gives a good enough impression, and is concise. "Damage that ignores durability" is needlessly long and doesn't fit into the same style as our other page names.

 

[Eficiente]

I don't want to rename a page, I want the page to say it does that it logically implies.

 

[Kaltias]

Durability negation does imply that it bypasses durability instead of simply not interacting with it at all.

If something doesn't involve damaging someone else, durability will never come into play to begin with.

Stuff like inducing paralysis will always works on someone as long as they don't resist no matter what their durability is, but that's because it has nothing to do with durability to begin with

 

[Agnaa]

If you want to start up a revision project to get durability negation added to every character that has mind manip, memory manip, poison manip, power nullification, negation, and any other power you'd consider to put under it, you can start a thread about getting that change through.

 

[Agnaa]

Again, if you want to change the wiki treats durability negation, either adding it to more profiles or renaming the page, you'd need to take it to another thread. But for now, the standards of the wiki would involve removing it from Fawful's profile.

 

[Kaltias]

That's why we have a page explaining it.

I can grant you that nowhere except in this wiki "Hyperverse" means "multiverse with 12 dimensional axis or more", but here we are

 

[Eficiente]

Sorry about that last message, my phone didn't inform me of the 2 previous comments. Anyway, I will later make a CRT but only to make all of this less confusing for everyone (replace the example on the page, maybe add a note about this, and likely replace the "able to ignore durability with x powers" some profiles have to instead mention and link hax).

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

I removed it