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Fate Revision Thread

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Short answer: Can Shiro or Archer project Excalibur?: No.

Can Shiro or Archer project something similar (aka beamsword) but with less yield and at the point of dying?: Yes.

Long answer:

Shiro projected "Excalibur" almost dying while trying...and he died after using it.

Archer stated during UBW that he was going do the same but will most likely die trying.

They can use their own body, mana while breaking their mind in order to project something similar like Excalibur based on an image. Nonetheless powerful yes, but not the same. It's something with a similar performance.

Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance though.
 
Yeah. It'd probably easier on them to trace Durandal and use one of its miracles to wish for something similar to Excaliblast.
 
I don't think we should rank GoB as high 7-A since there is a difference from firing a noble phantasm as a bullet than activating its true name.
 
@Ramesses

Merodach and Gram can destroy Caliburn without resistance even though it is a weapon in the same class as Excalibur.
 
Well Caliburn is just a B rank noble phantasm and it was projected by Shirou. And that was Gil swinging it so I still don't think we should rank GoB swordspam as High 7-A.
 
KamiYasha said:
Short answer: Can Shiro or Archer project Excalibur?: No.

Can Shiro or Archer project something similar (aka beamsword) but with less yield and at the point of dying?: Yes.

Long answer:

Shiro projected "Excalibur" almost dying while trying...and he died after using it.

Archer stated during UBW that he was going do the same but will most likely die trying.

They can use their own body, mana while breaking their mind in order to project something similar like Excalibur based on an image. Nonetheless powerful yes, but not the same. It's something with a similar performance.
Click to expand...


I'm aware of these things.

@Reppu That's true. "Up to at least 7-A with the Gate of Babylon, at least High 7-A with strongest treasures", then? Something similar for Enkidu and UBW?
 
Meroodach using its light ability would be High 7-A but it being fired as a bullet would not. Having weapons fired from GoB be comparable to Excaliblasts is very weird. Especially since Gil isn't using their true names. I think GoB should be up to at least 7-A and have High 7-A for Merodach and Gram.
 
So I'm going to split Saver's page into two keys, servant Saver who is 7-A and true self who is 4-B. Does anyone have any problems with me adding reality warping, space-time manipulation, conceptual manipulation and causality manipulation?
 
@Ramesses

I'm inclined to agree. They're just so different.

Moving all the Fate/Extra information onto another page is probably the best course of action.
 
@Gemmy

Wut. That's crazy.

But it seems to be a special version used by Ko-Fergus/Fergus Lily called Caledfwch Caladbolg.

In addition, Fergus was using a special treasure box to recapture the power of his original self, so it might not scale to Heroic Spirits and Servants.
 
Caledfwch Caladbolg is probably its true name like Teardrop Photon Ray. Ko Fergus needed to access his original form through a loop to get Caladbolgs true power then the sword used its special ability to absorb magical energy in the area/land before converting it into power in order to do that IIRC. I don't think any servant scales to this, Adult Fergus might be able to do this assuming his Caladbolg is in its true power state but needs the same amount of magical energy that the sword gathered so I dunno.
 
Yeah, I don't think it'd scale.

We should get the calcs checked anyways.
 
Because Excalibur Prototype is a anti-planetary threat weapon. The funny thing is he still loses against Prototype Heracles because the original concept of God Hand was "will not lose for 11 battles".
 
Arthur Proto lacks Avalon, but makes up for it with being so ridiculously stronger that it's not even funny.

I mean, that Country level Proto Excalibur probably only has 6-7 unlocked seals, out of 12.
 
So far he has never used Excalibur proto above 6 seals which one shot a almost fully incarnated Beast VI. I'm pretty sure the Country level is just at 4 or 5 seals. At 7 seals It reveals its true nature to protect the planet, at 13 seals It kills planetary things.
 
Yeah, seems outliery.
 
Yea, I don't think God Hand lives is a good measuring stick. Though True Name release Excalibur and the like scaling from Caladbolg's 200-500+ gigatons seems viable.
 
I find myself doubting that, since Caledfwlch Caladbolg is supposed to be Excalibur's prototype, is it not?
 
I know Caladbolg is Galatine's prototype, it's unknown if Caledfwlch Caladbolg is Excalibur's prototype(because Ko Fergus has not been added to game so we have no mats or profile info to go off) but at this moment Excalibur should be above it due to being a Divine Construct made by the world.

Iirc the feat is done by Ko Fergus tapping into his true form's power(which is why his small Caladbolg transformed into the giant Calabolg Adult Fergus uses) so it's not out there to think Adult Fergus can do this with a True name release. Either way I'm on the fence if this feat scales, guess we should wait for more opinions on the matter.
 
More input is good but I don't think being a Divine Construct would automatically make it superior to its prototype.

Anyways, I reread parts of Fate, and I feel like most normal magi should just be "At least Subsonic with Massively Hypersonic reactions" or something like that, they only really keep up with Servants under certain conditions (Projections, Command Spell boosts, surprise attacks). I said earlier that I didn't think Projections boosted Shirou's speed, but they do.

Some pages are currently scaled to Dead Apostles, who are Supersonic, but the thing is that Dead Apostles >>> Most Magi. Kirei's one of the fastest humans and he's outsped by them, having to rely just on his sheer skill.

I'd say:

  • Most Magi: At least Subsonic with Massively Hypersonic reactions
  • Kiritsugu: At least Subsonic with Massively Hypersonic reactions(??), Massively Hypersonic with Time Alter - Accel (Outsped Kayneth with Double Accel, blah blah blah)
  • Shirou: At least Subsonic with Massively Hypersonic reactions, Massively Hypersonic with projections
  • Kirei: At least Subsonic with Massively Hypersonic reactions, Massively Hypersonic with mantra boosts
I'd say that this is consistent with Tsukihime ratings (look at Shiki).

I can handle that, it doesn't affect many pages, I'd just like input.
 
Divine Constructs are enough to make it superior to its Prototype unless the Prototype is also a Divine Construct.


At least Subsonic with Massively Hypersonic reactions seems fine.
 
Okay.

Thank you.
 
Alright. The stats and everything should be fine though
 
@Prom, I agree that it does not make it automatically superior to it's protorype(still unknown if Caledfwlch Caladbolg is Excalibur's prototype considering weapons made from the world should not possess prototypes with the exception of the category's prototype, Photon Ray and unless the prototype is also a Divine Construct) but from showings the Divine Constructs have time and time again shown their superiorty over other NPs.

The speed changes make sense considering most magi are easily bullet timers and most of the time they have some sort of training or magical/supernatural enhancement to further buff their stats.
 
I agree with the Magi changes as well. For the most part, they normally make it so that Servant combat is too fast for most magi to even keep up with in perception. i.e. Saber vs Lancer in Fate/Zero

Most of the times where a Servant gets tagged by a Magus' spell, it is under specific circumstances.
 
Oh quick note. The servants have easily MHS combat and reactions which makes them extremely difficult to hit with spells but a super large aoe can still hit them. While Enkidu was calced at MHS, he doesn't actually move that fast in human form. Its part of his noble phantasm; he merges himself with a beam of energy, then flies into the atmosphere and attacks from there, so it would be counted as attack speed. I think we should re-add at least Hypersonic+ travel back into their profiles (based on the Lancer/Saber Fate Zero feat calc) to reflect this.

Thoughts? Or have I missed a feat where another Servant demonstrated MHS travel?
 
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