• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Fairy Tail: Zeref and Mavis CRT

Status
Not open for further replies.
DemonGodMitchAubin

DemonGodMitchAubin

He/Him
VS Battles
Thread Moderator
Calculation Group
15,343
15,031
This was brought up on the discord and now it's finally time to talk about it in a CRT, this is all about Zeref and Mavis' Ankhseram Black Magic

We know that this magic/curse gives the both of them immortality and regeneration and we currently accept the regen as Mid, however there is actually legit evidence that the curse grants higher regeneration. As we know, Thought Projection Magic is a magic that allows the user to freely control the shape and form of the users soul, Thought Projections themselves are simply a way for a soul to still exist and move around in a human form. We see this explained to us when Natsu had his soul taken out of his body and he used this magic to manipulate the shape of his soul to be more like his real body and allow him to properly fight Reiss.
2AzQLAW.jpg

We know that Mavis herself existed as a Thought Projection after having her soul ripped from her body from Zeref. This is exactly the same scenario as Natsu as both of them could not be seen by normal people, are non-corporeal, and can freely move around and control their form. Both of them are called Thought Projections in this form and therefore that means that both Natsu and Mavis were the actual souls of them both.

In the Alvarez Arc, Cana used Fairy Glitter to completely destroy Mavis's Thought Projection form. Since we know that Mavis's Thought Projection is just her soul itself and she was able regenerate from said soul being completely destroyed, that means that she and Zeref who has the same exact immortality should be able to regenerate from the complete destruction of the soul. All in all, that qualifies for higher regen. Some may argue that this is wank, but when you look at the series itself, there is nothing that contradicts this at all. All we know is that Zeref had found absolutely no way to end his life over 400 years and that he said decapitation itself also wouldn't kill him. There's nothing in said description that says Zeref and Mavis can't regenerate from the destruction of the soul as they were only able to die when they used the One Magic (Being love itself) which overcame everything allowed them to finally pass on to the afterlife.
fnMAci1.jpg

This also means that Zeref and Mavis should get their Soul Manipulation back, because we know that Zeref's magic was able to separate Mavis' Soul from her body when Ankhseram Black Magic was used on her. It was initially removed from their profiles because Zeref used this magic on Hades and Franmalth found Hades' body and managed to absorb his soul. However just because Franmalth found Hades' soul around his body, there's nothing that says that his soul couldn't just be hanging around outside of his dead body, the same exact way that Mavis' soul was hanging around her body after she had her soul removed. So just because Franmalth found Hades' soul around his body, it doesn't mean that his soul wasn't removed from his body.
504sf6l.jpg

Ok, this may be controversial, but what are everyone's thoughts

Additional Scans provided by Zackra1799

People who agree with this proposal: 6 (Myself, DragonGamerZ913, Zencha9, Zackra1799, SenseiKeleon, SamanPatou)

People who disagree with this proposal:

People who are neutral about this proposal:
 
Last edited:
Everything looks fine though I still want to wait for more input so idk if I agree just yet I guess I’m neutral as of right now
but since I posted this in the General discussion A while back I might as well post it here as well
souls in fairy tail have shown the ability to wonder and linger in a certain place or wonder off to different places long after their vessels death for quite a long length of time depending on the emotions and will of the deceased some have shown the ability to linger from anywhere from 57+ years to around 400+ years

It was shown that Zirconis soul was Abel to remain and wonder around in the Dragon graveyard for 400+ years after his death https://***********.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-301-page-3.html

https://***********.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-301-page-4.html

https://***********.com/read-online/
Fairy-Tail-chapter-301-page-5.html

https://***********.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-301-page-6.html

We see Zirconis soul leaves and heads to the after life after his soul has been wondering the dragon graveyard for 400+ years

https://***********.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-301-page-16.html

https://***********.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-301-page-17.html

We see Wraith can’t move on the after life due to his will to stay until he can find the man who took his life when he was alive
https://***********.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest-chapter-36-page-18.html
https://***********.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest-chapter-40-page-18.html


And In FT dragon cry the souls of the deceased dragons were shown to have the ability to linger and power up the dragon cry staff due to their emotional state of anger(go to 10:20-11:05)



So Franmalth finding Hades soul near his body within the very same year that hades died isn’t to far fetched
 
@Zackra1799

Yeah, sorry to ninja you like that, I did wait for you to make said thread, but it was a long time, so I just decided to make it myself, however your numeral scans on how Mavis' form is a spirit and ghost just flat out prove that is her soul and she regenerated from it's destruction
 
It seems like to me that Zeref thought the only way he could be freed of his curse of his inability to die was use Neo eclipse something he calls the greatest of methods

https://***********.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-532-page-9.html

https://***********.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-532-page-10.html



So the fact that Zeref has supposedly tried every possible way to die possibly including soul destruction
(which I’m assuming he knows a method of soul destruction and has possibly tried it considering he knew about Fairy Glitter which erased Mavis’s soul and Zeref was the one who taught Mavis magic and specifically Fairy law and possibly the other 2 great Fairy spells)


And yet he still thought that the only way he could be freed of his inability to die was with Neo eclipse which erases the current world and turns back time 400 years to before Zeref even became immortal was the only possible way for Zeref to free himself
 
Irekoz said:
But Wraith said soul and though projection are not the same thing
Click to expand...

The only difference between a thought projection and a Ghost is that Ghosts are Dead and thus have better control over the ability to hit physical objects as it's strictly decided by them, thought projections are still the soul but because the user is still alive It's a harder concept for them to grasp and thus harder for them to control the ability to touch physical objects. What Riess was talking about in that panel is about being able to affect Physical objects he never disputed that Natsu wasn't a Soul at that moment. Heck Natsu was shown to directly manipulate his own soul the 2 previous chapters.
 
I got ninja'd twice... Basically exactly what Zackra and SamanPatou said, Reiss is actually dead and has more experience with being in spiritual form, Natsu is just manipulating his soul while it is out of his body
 
He also they weren’t on the same level and he said that because a Spirt can do things a regular thought project can’t do like decide if their attacks connect with regular solid objects like kicking Levy’s carriage

And Even though Zircons was also a ghost and he couldn’t touch Wendy despite him hating humans and wanting to eat Wendy so it seems there’s a contradiction with wraiths statement
 
Isn’t this technique an illusion projection? One of the scans have her saying this is an illusion and not really me when she wanted one of her friends to attack her.

So I’m a bit confused as to how it ends up being Mid Godly for her?
 
She was saying that it was a illusion so that Cana wouldn’t feel bad about attacking her because that was her Spirt body not her physical body

but that is indeed her soul we see it’s the same with Natsu as after having his soul ripped out him and about to be eaten by wraith his actual soul took form as a though projection and that’s the same thing that happened to Mavis her soul took form as a thought projection after having it ripped from her body
 
What Sensei said, however if that isn't enough then that illusion statement can just be considered an outlier regardless given the 10 other statements about Mavis being a spirit are far more consistent and are from multiple sources in the story.
 
The other 11 are more valid as the context around the other 11 is different and they also are from many different characters as well

and with the 1 illusion statement the context behind Mavis making the statement is kinda shaky as Mavis was just trying to convince Cana to attack her because Cana was hesitant about attacking Mavis because she didn’t want to hurt a friend
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
On her page it states her real body is elsewhere. So unless her body, mind, and soul were destroyed it can’t be mid godly regeneration.
Click to expand...
There is also the fact that there are multiple forms of EE that can't kill Zeref or Mavis, these include Genesis Zero (an EE spell that erases Mind, Body Soul), Lost aspect (Which erases your Mind, Memory, and Body), and Momento Mori (Which completely Erases your concepts of Life and Death)
 
Last edited:
Her physical body was in a incased in a lacrima so when her Spirt body was destroyed the lacrima broke and she fell out and she still had damaged visibly on her but she recovered and woke up right then

but it’s weird because her physical body took damage each time her soul did so when her soul was destroyed her physical body had to follow and take the same amount of damage logically the thing Is the next time we see her and she is just fine after having her soul destroyed as she just recovered from it within seconds
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Then what do we consider regeneration of the soul specifically?
Click to expand...
I think anything under destruction of those 3 fall under Low Godly.

Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body, instead restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other nonphysical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else.

Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate even after the complete destruction of the body and soul/mind.

I don’t thing soul regen falls under anything traditionally unless they’re like Aizen for example who’s body and soul are one in the same. You’d have to ask other staff what this should be.
 
I see, so then it’s Low-Godly for just one of the two, being Body or Soul, while Mid-Godly is if you destroy both
 
Zackra1799 said:
There is also the fact that there are multiple forms of EE that can't kill Zeref or Mavis, these include Genesis Zero (an EE spell that erases Mind, Body Soul), Lost aspect (Which erases your Mind, Memory, and Body), and Momento Mori (Which completely Erases your concepts of Life and Death)
Click to expand...
Aren’t they resistant to those though? If they do come back from any of those EE spells obviously it would be mid godly at least for sure.
 
Yeah, it can't be Mid-Godly since that implies the body is also being destroyed. This is technically the inverse of Low-Godly, since it is restoring the soul while the body remains fine.
 
well if it classifies more as low godly rather than mid godly then I guess it’s low godly

But we also don’t know for 100% fact if Lost aspect or Genesis Zero or Momento Mori have actually been used on Zeref in order to kill him u could argue that memento mori and lost aspect has but I’m still hesitant

we know Zeref stated he has tried every way to possibly die and Zeref thought the greatest and only possible kill way to “kill” him or rid him of his inability to die was with neo eclipse which turns back time 400 years before he even became immortal

But idk if Zeref Regenerated from any of the EE magics or if he just resisted them I would say he resisted them but Still I’m not sure
 
senseikeleon said:
well if it classifies more as low godly rather than mid godly then I guess it’s low godly

But we also don’t know for 100% fact if Lost aspect or Genesis Zero or Momento Mori have actually been used on Zeref in order to kill him u could argue that memento mori and lost aspect has but I’m still hesitant

we know Zeref stated he has tried every way to possibly die and Zeref thought the greatest and only possible kill way to “kill” him or rid him of his inability to die was with neo eclipse which turns back time 400 years before he even became immortal

But idk if Zeref Regenerated from any of the EE magics or if he just resisted them I would say he resisted them but Still I’m not sure
Click to expand...
The problem is that Zeref never says anything about resistance when he mentions his curse, every time he refers to his curse he only ever mentions regeneration. Even in his final fight with Natsu he even says that he's never been put into a state where his Regen wasn't working to heal him despite minutes earlier he took even more damage when Natsu vaporized him.
 
Zackra1799 said:
The problem is that Zeref never says anything about resistance when he mentions his curse, every time he refers to his curse he only ever mentions regeneration. Even in his final fight with Natsu he even says that he's never been put into a state where his Regen wasn't working to heal him despite minutes earlier he took even more damage when Natsu vaporized him.
Click to expand...
That’s true I’m just saying we don’t know for a sure if he tried those methods it’s possible based on statements made by Zeref but not 100% fact

though I’m personally fine with Low Godly since we don’t know for 100% fact if he tried those methods
 
senseikeleon said:
That’s true I’m just saying we don’t know for a sure if he tried those methods it’s possible based on statements made by Zeref but not 100% fact

though I’m personally fine with Low Godly since we don’t know for 100% fact if he tried those methods
Click to expand...
If it's possible then he should get Low Godly, possibly Mid Godly
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
Would this affect Natsu using Igneel's Power? Because of his and Zeref's statement about him being capable to kill Zeref?
Click to expand...
No, because whether or not that version of Natsu could kill Zeref is completely unknown, Zeref speculated maybe Natsu could put him down for good, but IMO, that was just Zeref’s hopeful thinking
 
Well how does everyone feel about at least Low Godly possibly Mid godly regen for Zeref and Mavis instead of just straight up mid godly
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Zeinx1
Zeref Dragneel Death Manip Upgrade
Replies
14
Views
1K
Zeinx1
Zeinx1
Zeinx1
Fairy tail Immortality Upgrade
2
Replies
53
Views
3K
Zeinx1
Zeinx1
Zeinx1
Zeref dragneel cm2 resistance addition and Mavis vermillion august gray silver cm2 removal
Replies
29
Views
2K
Zeinx1
Zeinx1
Zeinx1
Zeref Dragneel Big Hax Addition
Replies
31
Views
2K
Zeinx1
Zeinx1
Zeinx1
Zeref Dragneel Revamp
Replies
37
Views
3K
Zeinx1
Zeinx1
Back
Top