Fairy Tail - Tartaros Arc problem

[Graf_Thorsdottir]

Apparently Tartaros Arc Oracion Seis members are 7-A for damaging Jellal. However, it makes little sense, storytelling-wise, that someone like Angel, Racer and Hoteye can be stronger than the likes of Erza and Mira, or the 9 Gates of Tartaros

My suggestion? Perhaps deem the Oracion Seis' current ratings an outlier, or scale just about all relevant characters in Tartaros to Jellal but to a lower degree

 

[Graf_Thorsdottir]

bump

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

You should link this in the discussion thread so the knowledgeable members will come here.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

They stay the same, 3 members of the Oracion Seis pretty handily damaged Jellal, while they took very little damage, until he used Sema, it might seem weird but the Oracion Seis are just that strong

 

[Graf_Thorsdottir]

it might seem weird but the Oracion Seis are just that strong

I'm sorry, but I have to call bull on the idea of Racer, Hoteye and Angel of all people being comparable to Jura and Laxus. The idea of Midnight and Cobra being that strong is already ridiculous in the storytelling perspective

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

They were beating Jellal, until he used Sema, feats put them on that level, the only fight they had in x791 had them beating Jellal bad, their is no one else to compare them to, point is, feats put them at that level

 

[BlackeJan]

Wait if that's the case....then Sema needs it's own key since they were beating him yet his Sema took them down

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

They were beating him with Numbers, one on one he solos, he did damage them himself, however they were still damaging him, meaning they broke his durability also once again Sema is part of his AP Blackejan, if the Oracion Seis can survive it and stay consious, they have 7-A Durability, and Jellal's Basic attacks were damaging them, it was a close fight but they still hurt jellal, also i was wrong before, Grand Chariot Hurt them as well

 

[BlackeJan]

The way I see it it can say the same for them. Even w/ numbers wouldn't make a difference just like how others in anime get surrounded but numbers yet when they pull out a move then they down them. If Jellal has to win due to Sema instead of himself then that means it needs a separate key cause Jellal himself had trouble

EDIT: it's the same w/ Irene so why can't we do it w/ Jellal when it shows truth that the only way to win was Sema....just like how he had trouble w/ Jura during the GMG

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

We scale almost every character to their strongest feats, Jellal's sema is his Ap, Irene's Deus Sema is her Ap, that is how we do scaling for Fairy Tail

 

[BlackeJan]

Ah ok then forget about Irene but it still stands w/ Jellal thiugh since again he was getting beat by them but them moment he used Sema he won the fight

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Oracion Seis Survived Sema, and were still conscious after Sema, they have 7-A Durability, Jellal can Damage them with Grand Chariot a generic Spell, therefore Jellal's normal AP is still 7-A, that is how Scaling works

 

[BlackeJan]

Wait so if Sema is 7-A then how in the world Oracion Seis is also 7-A yet they were downed and couldn't move. They shouldn't scale to something that damaged the crap out of them

Also by what u r saying Jellals magic = his Sema (cause that's his magic) so if that's the case....what would be the point in using Sema in the 1st place

 

[fandom_9TailAcno]

Hoteye never tank sema, because he was neutral in fight

 

[KaiserReinhardt]

Just because they're 7-A doesn't mean that they can beat the likes of mard geer who is also a 7-A.

They can still lose to mard geer. I don't see how this is a good reason to downgrade them.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

People need to remember that people of the same tier csn still utterly curbstomp each other. That's why scaling chains are a thing.

 

[BlackeJan]

People need to remember that people of the same tier csn still utterly curbstomp each other. That's why scaling chains are a thing.

That is very true but Jellal was losing the fight but the moment he pulled out Sema he was able to win which I honestly think needs it separate tier

Also by what @Demon said Jellals magic = Sema (cause that's his magic) yet he needed to use it

 

[Captain_Torch]

We already talked over before why Sema isn't separate. He tanked his own Sema, so his durability, and with that AP scale.

Also Jellal was never really losing, the whole point of the fight was to make them join Crime Sorciere.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It doesn't need a separate tier. Simply "higher with Sema" at most.

 

[Captain_Torch]

Jellal is on his tier thanks to his Sema though

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

They stay at 7-A, we can't downscale like that, for all we know Jellals Basic Attacks could be 500 Megatons, as opposed to Sema's 578 Megatons, it's the same as upscaling we can't make a character a higher tier due to being far superior to a near baseline feat, same should apply that we can't downscale someone who is weaker than a feat, Oracion Seis and Jellal himself Survived Sema and stayed Conscious, that means they have 7-A durability, Jellal Hurt them with Basic Attacks that means Jellals basic AP is 7-A, he Jellals Basic Attacks aren't as strong as Sema, but they're still 7-A, that is how scaling works

 

[BlackeJan]

It doesn't need a separate tier. Simply "higher with Sema" at most.

I can actually agree to this

@Demon

For all we know it could be lower then that. Again I said (in a way) that Jellals magic = Sema (cause it's his magic) yet he had to use it in order to put Oracion down cause again

EDIT: after reading the chapter it seems like Jellal indeed had trouble from the get go and yes while he did use Grand Chariot, it didn't put them down yet Sema ACTUALLY did. Imo we should wait for more people to say something but I agree w/ Sema being Higher

EDIT 2: wait if we do agree on the Sema = Higher then what would Jellals Tier be then? That's if we agree to it

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

No, Sema is his AP, like How Deus Sema is Irene's AP, Sema is the Feat we are using to Scale, so that is just his AP, and even if his tier becomes higher with Sema, he'd still just be 7-A, cause he would be unquantifiably lower than Sema, but his AP should just be 7-A, no need fora higher with Sema, we don't put Characters strongest attacks separate from their AP, unless it is a special situation, which does not fall under

 

[BlackeJan]

Yet Jellal put down Oracion w/ Sema but not his Grand Chariot. He even had a bit of trouble (in a way, you could say it's a one shot yet not at the same time)

 

[Captain_Torch]

Same as Luffy beat Enel only with his final punch, Natsu beat Zeref, Acno only with his final attack, etc.

Characters get on a tier due to their strongest move. Not to mention that Jellal could tank Sema himself, which grants him mountain level dura either way.

 

[BlackeJan]

1). Luffy uses a giant bell to beat Enel

2). Natsu beat Zeref due to PoF (literally he was losing the fight until he started spouting out friendship and his guild mark started glowing indicating that it was PoF) and w/ Acno he had help from other DS

3). Where did Jellal tank his own Sema cause that wouldn't make sense to cast it and then he would go and take damage. Actually looking at it could also be PIS since Meredith was literally RIGHT UP CLOSE to Jellal yet when it was cast she didn't take any amount of damage and same w/ Hoteye (looking at the radius of of the boat everyone should had been caught in it but if only 2 people weren't yet they were right in the battlefield then yes that would just be plain PIS right there)

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

1) That was pretty Much his own Power

2) Natsu Ignited his soul and went back and fought with Zeref and Won, he basically pulled an asura's Wrath, Beating the Final Boss with his Emotions

3) They were Out of His Range, and he Did Tank his Own attack, Plus the Oracion Seis were alive and Conscious so they have 7-A Durability and Jellal can damage them with his normal attacks, he is 7-A, literally nothing changes

 

[BlackeJan]

1). No....he had a bell around his first

2). It was PoF no matter how u look at it

3). Then please explain how Hoteye and Pink waifu wasn't affect by the blast nor damaged yet they were ALL close together? Even though the Sema was so big that EVERYONE would be in the radius

 

[HST_Master]

It was Luffy, his fist was breaking the Golden Ball around it

Flame Of Emotions is a in verse thimg for Natsu

 

[fandom_9TailAcno]

1). No....he had a bell around his first
2). It was PoF no matter how u look at it

3). Then please explain how Hoteye and Pink waifu wasn't affect by the blast nor damaged yet they were ALL close together? Even though the Sema was so big that EVERYONE would be in the radius

Jellal was going to use sema in gmg, so he is going to kill normal person? Watching games? He can control his magic and aim for those 4 not for hoteye annd meledy

 

[KaiserReinhardt]

Jellal was able to tank his own attack (sema), and the oracion sei was able to damage jellal in which would make them 7-A.

Also not all 7-A is equal, each on of them can stomp each other. Mard geer > 7-A Jellal > 7-A oracion sei.

If OP doesn't have anymore justification for their downgrade, then this thread should be closed.

 

[BlackeJan]

U guys r missing the point in what I've said....if Jellal indeed wasn't in the explosion then so should had Pink waifu and Hoteye since they ALL were closed to one another yet she didn't take any damage nor did Hoteye so again this could be PIS. Also again his Grand Chariot didn't knock them down yet his Sema did the trick. Anyways again we should just wait for more people since it's just been us talking about it.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Stop using PIS for everything Fairy Tail good lord...

 

[BlackeJan]

Good lord I don't use it for everything....

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Natsu beats Sting and Rogue, PIS, Jellal Survives Sema, PIS, Natsu One Shots Spriggans, PIS, Erza Destroys Meteor, PIS, Natsu beats Zeref, PIS, Natsu beats Acnologia, PIS

Everyone always makes PIS Claims about Fairy Tail

 

[KaiserReinhardt]

Calling anything "PIS" isn't a justification for their downgrade, you need to bring a very reasonable argument or proof for why they should be downgraded.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Tbf, the PIS claims about Erza are "kinda" true. Except the things that make no sense in and out of story are done so often its the standard.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

The thing is, Erza's BS powerups have been happening since the beginning, She used a BS powerup against Ikaruga, Azuma, Kagura, Minerva, Kyoka, Neinheart, and Irene, if it's consistent that she gets insane powerups when she is losing hard, then it's not PIS, it's part of her character, it's definitely not good writing but whatever, I don't like to hard about the Power of Friendship powerups

 

[fandom_9TailAcno]

merwdy and hoteye is outside of jellal seam aoe

 

[fandom_9TailAcno]

The thing is, Erza's BS powerups have been happening since the beginning, She used a BS powerup against Ikaruga, Azuma, Kagura, Minerva, Kyoka, Neinheart, and Irene, if it's consistent that she gets insane powerups when she is losing hard, then it's not PIS, it's part of her character, it's definitely not good writing but whatever, I don't like to hard about the Power of Friendship powerups

Azuma,kagura,minerva is not PIS, even again kyok lily explain(not remember about ikaruga)but she was island lvl and destroy a large island lvl meteor is not a pis.

Pis is something like goku hurt by a bullet