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Fairy Tail Hundred Year Quest Discussion Thread 3

CNBA3 said:
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As the author he can do whatever he wants with his series but the problem is when he tries to manipulates the readers to believe his characters will die. But if he doesn't like to do that then he shouldn't even attempt to make us believe that they will.

Also a series theme can drastically change. Here's an example I didn't watched yet: Puella Magi Madoka Magica. Apparently the series became a bit darker and more serious even being a Mahou Shoujo kind of series. The theme is the same, but the twists on it are more complex and with actual danger.

Isn't about respecting the theme but respecting the audience. I dropped FT because how many times did Mashima attempted to insult my intelligence with that BS. And I hate him so much for it so that's why I feel a bit relaxed that he isn't fully related to the sequel and I won't read Eden Zero unless he changes that mindset.

And as it was said above, death is an esential part of life even if it's sound contradictory. FT members's tears feels incredibly fake when someone dies because I seriously think that from the bottom of their own minds they are sure that the dead person will come back just because 'FT theme is friendship and happiness'.
 
He never manipulated his readers, he simply stated that the character is truly dead if he is dead without a shadow of a doubt. I don't know that series so I cannot relate, Which the audience should respect the theme because it reflects their interest as well to begin with when they read the story, that is what is important. Eden Zero has been showing quite some difference besides some similar character designs. No, a person is only dead if confirmed without a doubt dead, if a person is shown to be alive then that means they are alive. And death is present in FT, so don't go complaining about contradiction
 
Which deaths? The one from nameless fodder or the one from characters with little to zero relevance? And yes, I'm putting the dragons within there because even Igneel was absent during the 98% of the series and actually did nothing to the plot (ripping an Acno's arm and setting the Timeskip that changed nothing but the overall power level of the series).

If he doesn't want them to die and he let us know that then why was he still trying to make us feel sad about those deaths if we know they will come back for sure? Drawing characters crying to make us feel sad for their lost just to make the dead character come back to life just because he doesn't like them dead is manipulating the readers's feelings about that event.

Otherwise he may do it like this:

  • Makarov uses the Fairy Law even knowing it could kill him.
  • He doesn't die in the first place.
  • Makarov goes 'phew, what a relief'.
And done. It's way better to make the spectator that the character might die if he do something but he doesn't at the end than killing the character to just wake him up ten chapters later.

Sorry but I can't stop hating Mashima for his coward attitude. I could blame many things from FT but that's the worst thing he has as a writer.

@Homu

Oh you know. Characters that should've died didn't died and I'm complaining about it. Nothing new.
 
We're talking about the deaths of characters in series now. Kinda my fault, kinda not.

@Calaca. I can tell you from personal viewing and extensive conversations with Kaltias and other PMMM supporters: PMMM is not a happy verse. It's an active deconstruction of the Magical Girl series. Everyone dies. If you haven't died in the series, you become 2-A , and even then, you probably died brutally in another timeline.

I do kinda feel it does have to do with respecting the theme. And yes, bringing characters back from the beyond has been done well, even in other Shounen. Edo Tensei in Naruto wasn't bad, and there's quite a few in Dragon Ball, even if that's the trope definer of death-has-no-stakes.

I personally don't go into series to come out with depression. That's why when I finally watch Evangelion, I'm gonna watch K-On for the first time as well even though I vehemently dislike moe shows (I mean, come on. If you're not plot based or comedy based, why are you a show? You can only be a drama, comedy, or somewhere in between. That's been a thing since Shakespeare).
 
Igneel and Dragons were always present as they were part of the dragon slayers. Have you ever wondered why we see Igneel every time Natsu powers up? Igneel and Dragons risked their lives for humanity and their children, and their sacrifice meant a lot as it gave them the chance to be ready for Acnologia next time. You should not ask why and should just let things happen, it saves you the trouble of trying to control things you have no control over, it is an illusion. If a person never died then there is no reason for you to claim they were dead in the first place. He only does that once with Makarov and it is with actual reasoning which has been foreshadowed throughout the series.
 
Funny thing is, there are some Spongebob episode that darker than FT if memory serves.

You mean the one where Squidward's toenail came off?
 
The real cal howard said:
PMMM is not a happy verse. It's an active deconstruction of the Magical Girl series. Everyone dies.

And yes, bringing characters back from the beyond has been done well, even in other Shounen.
Click to expand...
Well that proves how much I know about the series :p

I like desconstructions but I don't watch Magical Girl's series so I'm not related to the genre and I feel watching PMMM wouldn't had the same effect if I am.

I'm not saying bringing dead characters is a bad thing but as you pointed there're cases when it's done the right way. Fairy Tail isn't the case since it's not bringing characters to life because Mashima wants them to make something interesting in the future (Did Makarov do something useful after his resurrection?).

Honestly I feel that Mashima only kept his characters alive to make most of their ships canon (but no NaLu which makes me Exceeding Happy [and now I'm going to kill myself because my puns are below Boomstick's level]).

I agree. Spongebob stomps in darkness.

@CNBA

Yeah, he was there everysingle time Natsu amped himself. So? What contributions did Igneel gave to the story rather than more power-ups for Natsu? It's like a Level Up notification at this point.

Things that the dragons made way before the story started isn't a contribution at all. That's the lore setting. Despite Igneel the dragons did everything but help in the fight against Acno. One can assume that 5 fricking dragons would stand a better chance fighting him than just letting Igneel jumps to his death. Igneel took one arm, maybe with the whole gang they could've get a leg or a wing and actually helps their childrens in the future fight severely weakening Acno. And they didn't even cared about Acnologia until he showed himself again. I mean, yeah, Igneel died because Acnologia made of him a dragon croissant but after some tears from Natsu the story doesn't develop going by that major conflict. One would expect that rather than wanting to protect his friends, Natsu's real conflict against Acnologia is his desire to get revenge against the dude that killed the father he was looking for for ten years.

>He only does that once with Makarov

Except he doesn't. I remember the internet burning when Gray died. I was sad and it was tragic. But then whoooops, Superman came back in time so all of them are alive again without any repercussions of seeing their own deaths.

The same applies to Juvia, Gajeel, Natsu for a moment, etc.

>Again with Spongebob

I just remember that chapter where the ghost pirate was trying to scare Bob and he made that horrible transformation with rotten baby heads, worms and even more. 90's TV was priceless.
 
Ghost Host was some episode lol.

Although, what happened with Juvia, Gajeel, and Natsu? I know Makarov's, but those three? Also, Wendy and I think Mira had it pretty bad too.
 
Oh yeah, forgot about Wendy and the Face's explosion and the thing with his hair. A symbol that was destroyed due to Cancer's powers.

I remember little from Juvia's apparent death but Gajeel was travelling through the Death's Tunnel and Irene's Universe Zero 'lolnoped' it which makes little sense to me since it's apparently something non-physical. But meh, I like Gajeel and Levy's finale so I can forgive Mashima for once.

But IIRC Natsu was dying from some kind of cancer too and the thing with E.N.D. is that if he kills Zeref he dies as well (which is a fantastic end for a character no matter who). But again, Zeref died first so Acno was still playing around and the manga needed to make justice of the Dragon Slayer's magic once and Mashima put all the DS together to fight him.

I don't remember Mira's fake death tho.
 
Igneel's contribution is giving Natsu the opportunity to develope as well, because without him in those instances Natsu could very well have died. They have been helping their Dragon Slayers develope overtime as well, like Wendy with her new spells during GMG. Igneel was the mightiest of them, so likely the other four would not have made much of a difference. Plus there were the faces which humanity could not stop, which would have lost all of their magic if the Dragons had not intervened, and Alvarez would have invaded and wiped out everyone. The Dragons were still making sure their children would not turn into dragons. And Revenge is not a way of life, you cannot be burdened by it, it is not healthy. Igneel taught him better than that. That was Time reversal, not resurrection, so that does not count like Makarov did. And Ultear was a repercussion as she is not on her final years of life, her time stolen from her, which is basically the same as being dead. Juvia never died though, same with Gajeel and Natsu and Wendy. Though I wished for more of END, I can understand that some issues can be solved by will power or clear mind, that is a solution to many issues like psychosis. Well many people liked Wendy's long hair iirc
 
so you are expecting a mc death in shounen anime, he even write about his fake death in the volume when irene use universe one, nasu condition was name as naruto, both was dying and seeing the dream while mai girl doing lewd thing with them >_>

guy survived no ne complains

makarov survive everyone world tunr upside down

ichibie dies but in next chapter he got healee back cause kurasaki says his name- everyone is final

juvia dies but i next chapter wendy heals her- again everyone start screaming and complaining

hinamori(idk if i spell her name correctly) idk how many time she survive one piece have fake death this too and leave dragon ball aside
 
@CNBA

Yeah, he was there everysingle time Natsu amped himself. So? What contributions did Igneel gave to the story rather than more power-ups for Natsu? It's like a Level Up notification at this point.

Things that the dragons made way before the story started isn't a contribution at all. That's the lore setting. Despite Igneel the dragons did everything but help in the fight against Acno. One can assume that 5 fricking dragons would stand a better chance fighting him than just letting Igneel jumps to his death. Igneel took one arm, maybe with the whole gang they could've get a leg or a wing and actually helps their childrens in the future fight severely weakening Acno. And they didn't even cared about Acnologia until he showed himself again. I mean, yeah, Igneel died because Acnologia made of him a dragon croissant but after some tears from Natsu the story doesn't develop going by that major conflict. One would expect that rather than wanting to protect his friends, Natsu's real conflict against Acnologia is his desire to get revenge against the dude that killed the father he was looking for for ten years.

did you completely ignored that other 4 dragon was destroying the face, and none of them was strong as theur prime self, even ingeel was in his last dyimg state.

>they didn't care about acno till end

cause they didn't have enough power to show themselve. they cleary explain it

>natsu real conflit was protecting his friend and avenge his father, it's not like he forget about ingeel lol, he mention in 6th ep, he mention(flashback) when he killed acnologia etc. atleast he killed his oppoent instead of using talk no
 
You guys know about why Mashima doesn't kill characters, the audience in japan would hate it, killing off characters in japan would kill the audience, unless you're guaranteed best mangaka like Naruto and One Piece, Hiro can't risk killing characters
 
The real cal howard said:
They'd seriously get that uppity about it?
Click to expand...
The death of Itachi in Naruto supposedly caused a kid to commit suicide, so I guess Mangaka don't really want to risk it unless it's a no-name.
 
The real cal howard said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Itachi's development didn't begin until after his death, correct?
Click to expand...
We knew jack about him before that yeah, other than he was a dick to Sasuke.
 
CNBA3 said:
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Power development doesn't help the plot tho. Not in the way you're trying to say. Preventing them to become dragons doesn't change anything because one of the biggest things at the final was 'i'm myself so even if I become a dragon/demon I'll be myself'.

Also what is the problem with turning into dragons? With the sequel we can see there're some DS that can turn into dragons that can be good (like the Water God Dragon that changed his heart because waifu's power). All of the DS have that kind of resolve so it makes little sense to restrict their powers if what the Dragons are truly attempting is to make them stronger.

Even half-dead Igneel managed to take one of Acno's arms. Then what could he do with his full power? I'm pretty sure he'd easily kill Acno even if lore says otherwise because taking an arm isn't something a dying person'd do with ease. And we don't know the difference between the rest of the dragons and Igneel. Yeah, he was the Fire King Dragon but four dragons are four fricking dragons. They could help him just distracting Acno to let Igneel take the final blow instead of just watching him fight and getting rekted.

You missed the point about revenge. Natsu had little to no reasons to fight Acnologia. There's no character progression showing him that fighting for revenge isn't the way to do things because he isn't thinking about it at all. Makes me think he gives zero f**ks about Igneel actually because despite crying a bit he doesn't care about that. He sees Acno and just attacks because plot needs a final fight and not because there's some conflict between them.

For plot convenience time reversal is the same thing as resurrection if we see a character dying and later he's alive. Anyway I quoted Superman's convenient time travel on that one so I don't care.

Ultear being kinda dead. Oh yeah, the same Ultear who made a comeback to fight that Alvarez's girl with the Time God Slayer Magic. She should've died in silence days after she saw Gray but she miraculously is alive despite being an old geezer who barely can walk and has enough magic inside her to suddenly appears.

All of those cases are death feints where the author implies they are dead but they aren't because lolmagicandhappinessBSandbadwriting. Sorry but you can't defend the fake deaths even if you love Mashima and FT. They are too many of them to just forgive him.

Wendy's hair was a resolution of the character not a personal stylic choice of the author (I guess). She'd be one of the most grown up characters when it comes to character progression starting from the support of the gang to make herself a competent fighter that kick as many asses as possible with a good end sacrificing herself. The hair is a sign of she being mature. And then she is saved by the lolicon and her hair grows back making all those pages totally irrelevant because it doesn't change anything.

>so you are expecting a mc death in shounen anime, he even write about his fake death in the volume when irene use universe one, nasu condition was name as naruto, both was dying and seeing the dream while mai girl doing lewd thing with them >_>

Could you rephrase this please?

>Guy and Makarov

Lol I complained about Guy and Tsunade's survival as well. Actually, I'm the only one complaining about all of this right now and I think I'm the only here that does it.

And Ichibei's comeback was BS as well. Bringing up other examples doesn't redeem Mashima from the same mistake.

But if you want to play that game then go ahead. I complain about all the fake deaths especially when the author tries to make me feel something fake. DB has his own problems and I fricking hate OP's fake deaths as well. Pell is one of my favourite side characters of the whole series and his death was brilliant and epic but then he's alive for some reason (that reason is editor's pressure).

Now Oda has killed many characters in these recents arcs so I can't blame him for it. And the kill count is increasing. What has Mashima on his side? Fake deaths. More than Oda has.

I'm sorry how many times did Natsu looked after Igneel again? He didn't say anything about him nor the author expresses the intention of that victory with the emotional weight that Natsu carried with Igneel's death. There's literally no background to the fight. Acno showed himself like four times in the whole series and he's suddenly the final boss but he does little to nothing to achieve that title and when it comes to beating him up his defeat is totally tasteless and anti-climatic because there's no weight on it.

I prefer the Talk no Jutsu. At least Naruto knows about conflict and how to solve it more than Mashima.

@Mitch

D-did you said what I think you said?

@Cal

Itachi was one of the most populars characters even before his death IIRC.
 
@Calaca

>What is the problem with turning into Dragons?

Well look at the 1st Dragon Slayer Erza's Hot Mom Irene. She was stuck that way for centuries and even after getting her human form back, it was in appearance only. She couldn't eat normally or any human functions. They'd live longer and get stronger sure but otherwise they'd no longer be able to lead normal lives.

>Igneel vs Acno

Acnologia wasn't even trying his hardest during that fight, along with the other Dragons destroying face and Igneel presuming he beat Acno while the other Dragons were conversating.

>Natsu had little to no reason to fight Acnologia

20Natsu vs Acno
He has plenty. Not only did he specifically leave to train because of Acno, he attacked them prior. Simply cuz he didn't state "I'm fighting you because you killed Igneel" doesn't make it moot since we the reader already knows this. He even disses him by claiming he's not a true Dragon like the likes of Igneel.

>Ultear

The Ultear that helped Wendy and Sherria was a thought projection that could only exist within the timestop. Real Ultear was still old and still at home. And why would she be dead in the 1st place? The side effect of Last Ages is simply rapid aging. Along with Alvarez only being a year after when she used it. That's not even a death faint, she just aged.

>Wendy and her hair

Yes her hair grew back but the meaning behind it stayed. She resolved to get stronger and keep fighting as long as her friends are and so far she's kept that resolve.
 
I prefer Hot Redhead's Hot Redhead Mom rather than Irene.

Hmm fair enough.

>Acno vs Igneel

Which means Acno was underestimating Igneel and still he got his arm ripped. With the five dragons the damage'd have been worse. It's PIS that the dragons didn't do sh*t against him.

>Natsu vs Acno

Author's intent doesn't show anything related to Igneel at all. Natsu's just shouting what he thinks but there's no real conflict. Again, he cries and he starts training. Then what? Did the trauma "magically" dissapeared? Or Natsu doesn't give a f*ck about Igneel or he's so stupid that he just forgot that Acno killed his dad. Pick whatever suits you.

>Ultear

Does the magic accelerates the aging at one determinate age? She going from hot woman to old geezer in some days so by the time the timeskip happened she should've been dust unless there's some rule stated somewhere that that magic stops at a certain age or has some conditions about how much the user ages.

>Wendy

His whole thing was the strength to sacrifice herself and not crying anymore. Then she's saved and gets his hair back and even then she doesn't demonstrate that what she just learned is still on his head. Is like what Gildarts said to Natsu in Tenrojima about not fighting is a good thing in the same arc where Natsu just fights back without thinking of the consequences and completely forgetting about what Gildarts taught to him.

In other matter I hate Mashima because Natsu looked so cool with the long hair but he can't even do a proper Timeskip redesing without killing the new style. God I hate that guy.
 
This is my personal mindset when killing off characters (villains excluded). I personally feel like once a character's killed off, I can't go back and see anything that they do as any more than pointless. Any relationship they formed, character arcs that they go through, all meaningless. I can't get invested in that character anymore, because I know where that investment leads. For example, take Gurren Lagann, an anime I love with characters I love. I can't fully invest in Simon's relationship with Nia because I know the latter's gonna die by the end of the series, and I love that ditzy princess. Of course, this only applies in retrospect, and not when you're going through the series normally, but retrospection is still a big part of a show's legacy.
 
>Acno vs Igneel

Acnologia wasn't trying his hardest when he killed Igneel why would 4 other half dead arguably weaker Dragons do besides make him put more effort into it and stomp them. Along with the Dragons vansihing quickly after they talk with their respective slayer.

>Natsu vs Acno

Again, simply because he doesn't directly state "I'm fighting you for Igneel" doesn't discredit his own reasons for leaving the year before and his words to Acno. It's not like "Hey Acno Imma deck you in the snozz cuz I can!" Alongside Acno bringing Natsu to him and starting the fight, not the other way around(He was hunting them the whole arc starting with God Serena) and we do see Natsu think back on Igneel

07Igneel
>Ultear

It's only rule is that she ages. No "rapidly age until you die" she simply became old.

>Wendy

What? Wendy's demonstrated her resolve to keep fighting and not just be a burden several times during the Alvarez Arc from her fight with Ezel, Irene, and being the 1st one of the DS to wake up and rescue Natsu from being Crystallized and the idea to give Natsu all their magic.
 
Davidsteel1 said:
1997KD said:
can anyone calc 4 dragon destroyin the 3000 face across ishagr?
Click to expand...
It was calced a long time ago as being MHS, AP won't be anything impressive unfortunately
Click to expand...
Didn't those calcs not use the 3000 faces, but 2000 or something like that ?
 
Anyone else finds it funny that Wendy was the only 1st gerneration that could activate DF be herself? And how no one attempted to even go DF vs Acnologia in the final fight?
 
Actually Natsu was the first to activate Dragon Force by himself during the fight with Mard Geer
 
Also I like that Fairy Tail doesn't have deaths, it's one of the few happy and fun series that jusst makes you feel good and not think too hard about the story, I know that's not what everyone is looking for, but when looking for a fun series you can just casually watch and enjoy, Fairy Tail is the choice, That's why it's my favorite series... Also the artwork is phenomenal
 
Honestly, most big shounen avoid deaths in their series, not to mention that FT had some deaths that actually affected the readers/story. For example Igneel or Mavis/Zeref. Naruto had more deaths of course(granted, the Neji death was REALLY stupid), but it's not like FT is that much worse in that regard. The real problem are the death fakeouts. People die but then return, which was especially the case in the final arc. I'm moderately fine with it, but I can get why it is annoying. One Piece is probably the worst offender in that regard though, given how much people "died" but then turned out alive. Even Ace, who had an amazing death, returned as Sabo(Not to mention that Luffy's character development after Ace's death was thrown out of the window. This is the thing that really pissed me off)

Fairy Tail has some big issues, but the "characters not dying" is a trope in many shounen, not just FT.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Actually Natsu was the first to activate Dragon Force by himself during the fight with Mard Geer
Click to expand...
Well what I should had said was "by her own free will" like a SSJ transformation
 
@calac power up is a form of plot progression, I mean if you cannot become stronger then you are not guaranteed to succeed and thus you cannot develope further in the story.

becoming a dragon is not some power up you can just turn on or off, it is a literal curse that no one wants, you suffer from all the forms of negative drawbacks like Irene did.

The Dragons stated that Igneel was the strongest dragon ever and there has been no one stronger, so by logic, the other dragons would offer very little challenge.

There is more to caring about someone than just revenge, and revenge is not morally good. Natsu just got justice from Igneel's death, justice is about harmony, revenge is just making oneself feel better. Natsu truly cared about Igneel since he was with him the entire time, he was there for his adventures, with his friends, shared every moment.

Ultear could only do that because it was outside the physical world, thus meaning she could not actually help at all the way she was now. Thus my point still stands as she is literally near death as she is st the end of her lifetime.

Well it is your fault for believing they are dead, you have to take the author at his word that they are only dead unless confirmed dead with no doubt.

There is more to the character than just hair style, it is the character's determination itself. Do not be so focused on the physical things and look at their strength of their spirit.
 
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