Eternatus Issues

[GyroNutz]

Two main things:

• Why does this Pokemon have Low 2-C AP? Neither warping space time nor having infinite amounts of 3-D energy warrants this rating. High 3-A is iffy already, but that's less of a glaring issue.

• Why does it have a category for every ability affected by its power null? That makes zero sense; categories are only for abilities/feature that the character itself possesses.

Smaller things: I'd like to know why its range is planetary, and also its speed should be justified. I know why it has Relativistic+ speed, but your average person reading the profile will not.

 

[NeoZex6399]

-I agree with the first question, "likely High 3-A" is enough.

-I don't mind too much, we can add the abilities that Eternatus negates in the Eternamax key.

-Eternatus should be comparable in speed to a fully evolved pokémon and obviously comparable to Zacian, which is described as extremely fast:

"Zacian dashes through the battlefield to strike its enemies with the speed of a swift wind. Its graceful movements are beautiful to behold and have been compared to a dance. Zacian's slashing attacks possess a speed that makes them impossible to see with the naked eye, and those hit by its blade are cut down before they can even feel pain from the blow."

 

[Abstractions]

As I already said here, I think Eternatus should simply be Unknow until it gets more exposure.

The High 3-A is so weird because how can Eternatus suddenly contain infinite energy after only absorbing the energy from the Galar region? Did Galar somehow contain infinite energy within it?

It's just weird as a whole, how does something that supposedly contained infinite energy lose and have to gain it back? You cannot divide infinity apart.

Legendaries obviously tend to scale above fully evolved Pokemon when it comes to speed, Zacian's speed may not compare to what we already have but its supporting nonetheless.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Doesn't change the fact that Pokedex entries are typically what provide the most accurate information about Pokemon, so if it says that it radiates infinite energy, then that should be accepted, like how Pupitar's entry of blowing away a mountain is accepted

 

[PaChi2]

Having infinite energy or absorbing infinite energy isnt High 3-A unless you can actually use infinite energy at once.

Otherwise its just hax or infinite stamina.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Doesn't change the fact that Pokedex entries are typically what provide the most accurate information about Pokemon, so if it says that it radiates infinite energy, then that should be accepted, like how Pupitar's entry of blowing away a mountain is accepted

if Infinate energy counts as High 3-A, then Kirby having "infinate Power as stated in the games" would make him High 3-A as well maybe even higher given that reason

 

[NeoZex6399]

The description of Eternabeam (Infinite Beam in Japanese) states that Eternamax is the original form of Eternatus.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

For the high 3-A stuff, im pretty sure its not because of either but because it's both at once. Affecting space-time using said infinite energy.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Having infinite energy or absorbing infinite energy isnt High 3-A unless you can actually use infinite energy at once.
Otherwise its just hax or infinite stamina.

Pretty sure that's what Eternatus is doing. The fact that it's radiating this infinite energy is what's warping space-time

 

[Ionliosite]

In any case, Low 6-B is the lowest possible lowball to Eternatus, there's no reason to rate it as Unknown.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Rose claims that Eternatus is a limitless source of energy that can guarantee everlasting prosperity for Galar.

But I will honestly remain neutral.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Yeah the profile does need some work, pretty sure it's the only tier 3 mon (that's accepted to my knowledge) but yeah listing what its power-nulls does is indeed overkill, perhaps a link to a blog on either the notes or explanations on how its power null works will be more appropriate?.

Also a simple link to the Poliwrath calc will likely suffice for the speed.

Tbh I'm neutral on High 3-A scaling too, ofc as a mascot level legendary being only Low 6-B is ludicrous lowball imo however considering the direction of Gen 8 (with the lack of immersive lore as well as rather Incomplete "stuff") I doubt Eternatus will get more development until the manga/anime catches up with the games.

 

[Abstractions]

Eternatus was in a state of power overload when returning to its original form, but my problem is how it depowered and had to gain back its supposed infinite energy by absorbing a finite amount.

Eternatus shouldn't be Low 6-B because he can't be infinitely weaker than his original state, his power leaked and was responsible for the Dynamax phenomena but you can't divide infinity that way.

There's also Zacian and Zamazenta being able to defeat Eternamax-Eternatus in lore, when all we have for them is splitting the sea and ramming through mountains.

EDIT: Its Power Null should just have a more lengthy description summarizing the extent of its capability, not a whole category.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Rose claims that Eternatus is a limitless source of energy that can guarantee everlasting prosperity for Galar.
But I will honestly remain neutral.

This is supported by Eternamax Eternatus' Pokemon Shield Dex entry: "Infinite amounts of energy pour from this Pokémon's enlarged core, warping the surrounding space-time."

This also shows that the infinite energy is causing the warping of space-time. As such, I'm at least standing with the High 3-A rating staying

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yeah the profile does need some work, pretty sure it's the only tier 3 mon (that's accepted anyway) but yeah listing what it power-nulls does is overkill perhaps a link to a blog on either the notes or explanations on how its power null works will be more appropriate?.
Also a simple link to the Poliwrath calc will likely suffice for the speed.

Yeah, just put a little note in paranthesis like (Should be at least as fast as Poliwrath) and link the calc if necessary

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Nowhere is infinite energy accepted for such tiering. Especially not on the scale this Pokemon displays any feats.

Best get some more staff input.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Nowhere is infinite energy accepted for such tiering.

The infinite energy alone wouldn't qualify for High 3-A, but it's because the infinite energy is also causing space-time to become warped that it's in that tier

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That literally means nothing, was it doing it throughout the universe? No

 

[CloverDragon03]

That literally means nothing, was it doing it throughout the universe? No

Doing it throughout the universe would make its range universal, but as shown on Eternatus' profile, its range isn't universal. That doesn't scale to its AP

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Sorry, I'm pretty sure this wouldn't get accepted anywhere.

 

[Wokistan]

Well there's the matter of how everything warps spacetime to some extent, which is half of why "warping spacetime" is meaningless.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Being able to affect space-time with your energy alone also suggests that its infinte given that space-time is what's factored in.

Also, aren't the Dens in the wild area created by Eternatus's power as well?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Well there's the matter of how everything warps spacetime to some extent, which is half of why "warping spacetime" is meaningless.

The way it does it though is on a different scale, as shown with how it's to an extent that images of other locations occasionally flash during the battle.

 

[Wokistan]

"The way it does it though is on a different scale, as shown with how it's to an extent that images of other locations occasionally flash during the battle. "

This doesn't really suggest that it's doing it across an infinite distance along 4 dimensional axes.

Also yeah what is even going on with that power null tabber

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Even I'll admit that's sounds a little iffy, so essentially; Eternatus has access to an infinite amount of energy however it is limited on a planetary range however due it warping time and space, it gets an universal rating.

Am I understanding this right?.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Basically, since range doesn't have to scale to AP

 

[Wokistan]

It's kinda important here though. Being explicitly limited to a planetary range counts against it having actually infinite energy, as opposed to an unreliable statement/hyperbole, and even then it's High 3-A at best.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Where does it display planetary anything even? I don't recall. Last I checked it was limited to the galar region.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im with Dragon on the range stuff. Why would affecting only a particular range disqualify it's AP?

And for the record, I actually do agree Low 2-C is an issue, but stand with High 3-A.

 

[CloverDragon03]

How so? Infinite energy =/= Infinite range

And also, how is a statement from the Pokedex, the same thing that gave us Pupitar's mountain-busting ability that we use to scale fully-evolved Pokemon nowadays, unreliable?

Additionally, based on what your saying, what would a suitable range be for its infinite energy?

 

[Wokistan]

Being explicitly limited to a planetary range counts against it having actually infinite energy, as opposed to an unreliable statement/hyperbole

That's why. If the statement's not only unsubstantiated but outright contradicted...

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Wokistan, thats not an explanation for why it does.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Being explicitly limited to a planetary range counts against it having actually infinite energy, as opposed to an unreliable statement/hyperbole

That's why. If the statement's not only unsubstantiated but outright contradicted...

And like I said, how does its range contradict this statement? Infinite energy =/= Infinite range

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Honestly just some context would be nice because after reading what little lore there is, I honestly don't see where the universal scaling comes from.


I've seen numerous muguffins in fiction that have: infinite, endless, limitless, etc amounts of energy/power AND can warp time, space, reality, etc yet they don't get tier 2/3 ratings based on that alone, so what makes Eternatus any different?.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I've seen numerous muguffins in fiction that have: infinite, endless, limitless, etc amounts of energy/power AND can warp time, space, reality, etc yet they don't get tier 2/3 ratings based on that alone, so what makes Eternatus any different?.

Could you give examples then please? Cuz Eternatus is the very first time i've dealt with this at least.

 

[Wokistan]

How so? Infinite energy =/= Infinite range

It... kinda does though. An infinitely powerful explosion is going to be infinitely large, that's just how releasing this amount of energy works.

And also, how is a statement from the Pokedex, the same thing that gave us Pupitar's mountain-busting ability that we use to scale fully-evolved Pokemon nowadays, unreliable?

Because just because a thing says one right thing doesn't make everything it says unquestionable truth and everything should be scrutinized to see if it holds up?

Additionally, based on what your saying, what would a suitable range be for its infinite energy?

Considering the apparent context of "thing would want to affect more than limited distance and doesn't yet" and "thing apparently has infinite energy", a range infinite across 3 axes.

 

[GyroNutz]

The power null category thing was more because it has 98 categories, with dozens of categories (stuff like "Earth users") being on the profile just because Eternatus nulls it. But I agree that the tabber should just be removed and explained better.

 

[Wokistan]

Does eternatus have some strange power null mechanic that necessitates listing everything its ever worked against anyways

 

[CloverDragon03]

The Pokedex is the literal Pokemon encyclopedia. Generally speaking, its statements aren't hyperboles, and Pokedex entries are typically accepted when considering scaling, especially for the legendaries. It's not just one instance, it's a general trend.

Also, "an infinitely powerful explosion is going to be infinitely large" is not a true statement. It can be true, but range does not have to scale to AP.

 

[GyroNutz]

It just nulls pretty much every Pokemon move, I don't think there's any "strange mechanic" behind it.