Espeon Vs Issei

[Overlord775]

I think i may have found a hard counter for Issei

Strongest form for Issei and Speed Equalized

Purple Cat:8

Red Drago:1

Inconclusive:0

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Espeon spams psychic moves until Issei dies. Due to Magic Bounce, Divide does nothing but screw over Issei.

 

[GyroNutz]

Espeon has magic bounce to lolnope Divide and power swap to lolnope Issei's boosts. Naturally none of Issei's breast based abilities work here, whereas Espeon has precognition. I'd say this is pretty decisive in Espeon's favour

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Espeon FRA

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Espeon fra then.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Issei uses Penetrate and shreds Espeon with a single attack.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

wait lemme fix that

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Issei uses Divide on Espeon and lolnopes Magic bounce with Penetrate. Then he uses black fire to burn Espeon from existence. Could someone explain Espeon's precog since it isn't explained on it's profile?

 

[GyroNutz]

I looked it up, penetrate has allowed Issei to hit through some type of power null and forcefields. It hasn't shown the ability to ignore Magic Bounce afaik.

Issei doesn't have EE on his profile.

Basically, pokedex entries say that Espeon can:

'read air currents, allowing it to predict the future, as well as its opponents' next moves.'

'it can feel minute shifts in the air and predict the weather... and its foe's thoughts.'

It's been stated to straight up possess 'precognitive powers/faculties'

It also has Future Sight as part of its moveset.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I didn't say erases, I said burns. Because his fire burns the soul and body of the opponent.

Okay, that doesn't really explain how Espeon dodges the huge AOE fire so it still gets burned to death.

 

[Overlord775]

Issei doesn't have soul manipulation, he only has the ability to hit intangible beings

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Blazing Inferno of Scorching Flames: Issei breathes flames that can never be extinguished and will continuously burn until the target is reduced to ashes or disintegrated. It is able to engulf an entire island.

Non-Physical Interaction (Can damage intangible and non-corporeal entities such as ghosts and spirits)

 

[GyroNutz]

He also doesn't have soul manipulation.

Espeon doesn't have to dodge it, they can attack it back with their own abilities. Along with that, Espeon has access to Baton Pass, which is shown as position switching in the Mystery Dungeon games.

 

[GyroNutz]

Oh ninja'd.

Espeon can cure its burn with refresh and would make Issei burnt as well via Synchronoise. Even then, it's not like Pokemon haven't dealt with burns before.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Issei just applies his Penetrate to the fire and it rips straight through Espeon's attacks. If Espeon uses Baton Pass, then Issei just keeps attacking or turns around if that's what it does.

 

[GyroNutz]

Ok, I'm calling bs, the description for penetrate says it bypasses defensive abilities, not straight up ignore attacks.

Espeon isn't using it as a defensive ability, it's using psychic to counter the attack

 

[GyroNutz]

Also Espeon would be spamming its own psychic attacks on Issei, so it's not like it'll be on the defensive the whole time, and has recovery + countermeasures to Issei's stat amp/reduction

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Issei breathes flames that can never be extinguished and will continuously burn until the target is reduced to ashes or disintegrated.The fire won't be stopped by the attack. Issei can also use Reflect on physic and Boost himself. Synchronise doesn't give statuses that affect it back if said status makes it unconcscious (like Freeze and Sleep). The fire would kill Espeon due to the boosting.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Issei breathes flames that can never be extinguished and will continuously burn until the target is reduced to ashes or disintegrated.The fire won't be stopped by the attack. Issei can also use Reflect on physic and Boost himself. Synchronise doesn't give statuses that affect it back if said status makes it unconcscious (like Freeze and Sleep). The fire would kill Espeon due to the boosting.

NLF. Just because they can't be extinguished in one verse doesn't mean another verse can't.

 

[GyroNutz]

If an attack is hit by another attack of similar AP, then yes it can be stopped.

Continously burn < move that specialises in healing statuses like burns.

Espeon won't become unconcious from the burns, and even then, that's one of the primary effects it does reflect.

If Issei boosts, it makes it even easier for Espeon via power swap.

Espeon resists the reflected psychic, and it's not like Issei can or will do all of this at once.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

What's NLF about a stronger attack beating a weaker one? The fire will be stronger than the psychich after Issei Boosts it and Divides the attack. Since he's not Dividing Espeon, the Divide will still work since it's specifically the attack.

 

[GyroNutz]

Also worth mentioning that Magcargo, who's own body alone is far hotter than the surface of the sun, is fodder among fully evolved Pokemon.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Also worth mentioning that Magcargo, who's own body alone is far hotter than the surface of the sun, is fodder among fully evolved Pokemon.

Surviving the sun's surface is like, only multi city block durability. That's fodder to both of these characters.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@Apies

What do you mean? It's just like Amaterasu and Hellblaze. Inextinguishable flames are common in fiction. There's no fallacy about it

 

[GyroNutz]

'own body alone'.

Also I highly doubt Issei has the skill and/or capacity to fire off attacks, boost them, divide Espeon's counter attacks, divide Espeon's other attacks which include a homing barrage of stars and unpredictable (for Issei) attacks from future sight, and then do that all over again after a baton pass.

 

[Overlord775]

Doesn't Issei like to spam Boost on himself ?

Wouldn't that combined Espeon's ability to copy stats amps spell doom for Issei ?

 

[GyroNutz]

Doesn't Issei like to spam Boost on himself ?
Wouldn't that combined Espeon's ability to copy stats amps spell doom for Issei ?

^

not just copy either; swap them too. Issei boosting is practically suicide here.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

So you keep naming all these different moves and the most efficient way for Espeon to use them to win. What does it actually start off with and is likely to use in combat?

 

[GyroNutz]

It has passive precognition that makes what it is 'likely to use' kinda a non-factor

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Well, I don't really understand Espeon's abilities since there are little to no explanations in his page, and Pokemon descriptions normally seem weird and confusing to me.

 

[GyroNutz]

Another thing; Espeon's psychic abilities are amped in the sunlight, which is when the battle takes place as per SBA. This includes moves like Psychic, power swap, both of its 'main' abilities as well as its precognition

 

[DragonEmperor23]

It's precognition, not omniscience. It wouldn't know what Issei is doing just by seeing the result of his actions. It wouldn't know that his Boosts make him 2X as strong or that he can warp space-time. It would only see the visible effects. For all she knows, the reason her attacks get smaller is because his attacks eat hers. How far into the future can it even see?

 

[GyroNutz]

It wouldn't know what Issei is doing just by seeing the result of his actions. It wouldn't know that his Boosts make him 2X as strong or that he can warp space-time.

What makes you think this? There's a lot of stat boosting in Pokemon, so boost won't be anything new to it, and it would know the best way to deal with this. If Issei tries to warp space-time, Espeon would know quite far in advance. I've already shown statements explaining Espeon's precog; two of its methods are via telepathy and psychic-enchanced senses, both of which tell it quite far in advance both what move Issei will use and what he's thinking when he uses it.

Never stated it was omniscience, but the advantage that precognition gives, especially to a smart opponent such as Espeon is significant.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Precognition means it sees what Issei is doing. Something that does not have a visible effect like Issei's boosting or could have multiple abilities that look like it like Issei's Divide on attacks would not be known to Espeon. Just being intelligent isn't enough to give you the explanation for your opponent's powers.


Power Swap switches the user's Attack stat stages and Special Attack stat stages with the target's Attack stat stages and Special Attack stat stages. Since this changes stat stages, the stat stages can be passed via Baton Pass.

Power Swap bypasses accuracy checks to always hit, unless the target is in the semi-invulnerable tur of a move such as Dig or Fly.

Power swap doesn't even work on flying opponents.

 

[YungManzi]

Wouldn't Issei one-shot before Espeon power swaps?...I mean he literally spams boost.

Well I suppose precog can be argued for Espeon, but iirc precog isn't passive and has a limited number of uses.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

@Apies
What do you mean? It's just like Amaterasu and Hellblaze. Inextinguishable flames are common in fiction. There's no fallacy about it

I have to go to work so this will be quick. Houndoom's fire causes burns that hurt forever, but Refresh should still heal them. Same Diff.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Wouldn't Issei one-shot before Espeon power swaps?...I mean he literally spams boost.
Well I suppose precog can be argued for Espeon, but iirc precog isn't passive and has a limited number of uses.

Yeah, and power swap doesn't even work on flying opponents.

 

[ChosenOrDeath]

Espeon FRA

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I know people have made reasons, but Issei would kill Espeon before that.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Just want to point out that Espeon has passive precog as per its pokedex entries