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Er-gen verse, 1-A downgrade discussion.
- Thread starter Ricsi-viragosi
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- #323
If that's enough, then yeah, they can do that easily.
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Slow your roll there. I suggest you read Ultima's comment again.
"The statements regarding Essence containing all of space while occupying no point in it are neat and all but, the thing is that this only implies that it is a dimensionless force / constant, and surprisingly enough, lacking dimensional attributes is not sufficient for something to actually be considered 1-A. The bulk of the Tiering System bases its ratings off of geometrical, dimensional sIze, and in the context of it, lacking dimensions doesn't really mean you are bigger or smaller than anything, it means you have no size or directionality whatsoever, making such a state pretty much unquantifiable in regards to Dimensional Tiering."
"The statements regarding Essence containing all of space while occupying no point in it are neat and all but, the thing is that this only implies that it is a dimensionless force / constant, and surprisingly enough, lacking dimensional attributes is not sufficient for something to actually be considered 1-A. The bulk of the Tiering System bases its ratings off of geometrical, dimensional sIze, and in the context of it, lacking dimensions doesn't really mean you are bigger or smaller than anything, it means you have no size or directionality whatsoever, making such a state pretty much unquantifiable in regards to Dimensional Tiering."
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That's old and has been coveredShadowWarrior1999 said:
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I still don't buy 1-B.
Deleted member 2530
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I don't think it matters if you don't buy it without any proof to downgrade it.
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That's very cool
So they'll get downgraded to 1-B, huh...
So they'll get downgraded to 1-B, huh...
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Hmmmm.
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So, do you have time now or don't you?Matthew Schroeder said:
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Oh, you ready for that debate then?Matthew Schroeder said:
Because if you won't debate it, your tought ls are worth pretty much nothing to this argument.
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Oh, you don't bie it..? Really too bad, if only you were actually given the chance to actually make your position worth anything to the debate...
Seriously. You obviously had time. If you can't bother to argue, then being that background guy who just keeps shouting "you're wrong, by the way" just makes you seem a petty child.
Seriously. You obviously had time. If you can't bother to argue, then being that background guy who just keeps shouting "you're wrong, by the way" just makes you seem a petty child.
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All right, let's not get too aggressive when that isn't needed
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Anyways, is destroying the concept od dimensions 1-A or not?
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@Andy agreed, we have already been there, don't need it again.
However, I do agree with Flowerys sentiment. If he isn't ready, he shouldn't have come back. Just yelling "lol you're wrong, coz I said so" isn't helping anyone here and is derailing. This is why I asked him if he is actually ready now/ has the time to properly debate. If not, he can make a new CRT when he finds the time.
However, I do agree with Flowerys sentiment. If he isn't ready, he shouldn't have come back. Just yelling "lol you're wrong, coz I said so" isn't helping anyone here and is derailing. This is why I asked him if he is actually ready now/ has the time to properly debate. If not, he can make a new CRT when he finds the time.
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@Flowery Not sure, if it's the platonic concept it should be (concept of something doesn't refer to specific instances of that something so I doubt getting 1-A from concept of dimensions would be a reach normally)
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- #339
So, platonic concepts:
Such concepts, or forms, are completely transcendent of reality in every aspect.
This applies to it. It exists outside of the stuff it contains, and it's concepts are just "frameworks" the essence creates.
These forms are 1-A in nature, as they are beyond all spatial and temporal dimensional constructs and all of reality merely "participate" in these concepts.
Again, true, Essence exists outside of space and time, while it contains all of it.
For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the form of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of reality.
Again, it works like that. Changing any of said concepts changes them across all of reality.
These concepts must exist prior to and after the existence of any object of the concept.
This is plain stated to be like this, so yeah.
Such concepts, or forms, are completely transcendent of reality in every aspect.
This applies to it. It exists outside of the stuff it contains, and it's concepts are just "frameworks" the essence creates.
These forms are 1-A in nature, as they are beyond all spatial and temporal dimensional constructs and all of reality merely "participate" in these concepts.
Again, true, Essence exists outside of space and time, while it contains all of it.
For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the form of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of reality.
Again, it works like that. Changing any of said concepts changes them across all of reality.
These concepts must exist prior to and after the existence of any object of the concept.
This is plain stated to be like this, so yeah.
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One of the quotes I saw did legit sound like 1-A. But remember that I'm not an authority on this subject and our standards regarding this rating are extremely strict so my opinion here will likely be insufficient
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Hmm, who could I ask for this then?
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Ultima, DarkLK, Azathoth, Sera are the tier 1 experts (Do take care that some of them might be busy tho)
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Is Sera back again?
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Btw just to be clear, the situation here is that the strings are just representations of dimensions, with the countless strings of different sizes representing countless dimensional levels right? Am I understanding this properly?
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Not really. The threads form the dimensions through their patterns, which is why Meng could only use their power in a limited manner.
The poin ti's that they can create countless dimensions, not that each thread is one by itself.
The poin ti's that they can create countless dimensions, not that each thread is one by itself.
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Each thread contains the properties of dimensions though:
"Withi these threads are length, height, breadth, and size."
"Withi these threads are length, height, breadth, and size."
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Yes, and their pattern decides what dimension takes form.
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That...complicates things for me. Dimensions are characteristics, axes along which something can be measured, they aren't objects that can be created in the literal sense by putting raw material together, if the threads aren't representations of dimension or some kind of abstract phenomenon then I am not as sure about this being a higher D thing anymore
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- #350
But... this is by definition not "objects" created by putting together "raw materials". This is literally taking what makes up their concepts and manipulating it.
Much like how Bai could use the same threads to make a universe into a dimensionless singularity, then add infinite width, lenght and depth one at a time, and then add a temporal axis.
None of the stuff should be things that you can "add" and "remove", but that's just fiction in the works.
Much like how Bai could use the same threads to make a universe into a dimensionless singularity, then add infinite width, lenght and depth one at a time, and then add a temporal axis.
None of the stuff should be things that you can "add" and "remove", but that's just fiction in the works.
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They represent dimensions in a similar way the river of time represents time. The MC just interacts with them in a ... weird way.
"Meng Hao saw countless dimensions of space, all of them different sizes. [...] They transformed into countless threads"
"Meng Hao saw countless dimensions of space, all of them different sizes. [...] They transformed into countless threads"
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@Ricsi I was just assuming there wasn't any conceptual shenanigans going on. So are the stricts abstractions then, being manipulated by someone who can interact with such things?
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Oh, yes, they aren't actual threads.
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@Ricsi Not meaning to doubt you but can you post some relevant quotes that establish this abstract nature of the strings? Apologies if you've already done so.
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On a phone, but will in a bit.
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It's Meng's way of seeing it, as shoen with those that observe not seeing the threads, and another guy getting the same enlightenment and not seeing the threads at all.
Well, the first thing is that all the observers could "only sense an aura of essence", which makes clear that the threads he could see weren't actual objects that were physically there.
"As Meng Hao sought Dao enlightenment, the area around him distorted, occasionally expanding, occasionally contracting. Sometimes it would bulge upward and downward, and sometimes it would sweep out to the left or right."
Beyond that, the threads create the space he is inside of (which would obviously be impossible for actual threads to do).
"Within these threads are length, height, breadth, and size. They are limitless, and that is space.... They are flat, but actually...."
And Bai's POV about space in a universe (with time thrown in too).
"The starry sky vanished, leaving behind only… a single point!
It was a singularity of absolutely no length, breadth, or depth!
That singularity existed within the starry sky. It contained all magical laws, all natural laws, and a total of 1,080,000 worlds!
When Bai Xiaochun saw that, he smiled. Waving his finger, he caused the singularity to transform into a line…. It had no breadth or depth, and yet, was infinitely long, with no end.
"I'm missing something, aren't I?" After a moment of thought, he waved his finger again, and the infinitely long line suddenly became infinitely wide!
Because it was infinitely long and wide, it was actually impossible to tell which direction was which. Such descriptions could only exist in one's thoughts.
From a distance, it almost looked like an enormous sheet of paper, spread out through the starry sky. Bai Xiaochun looked at it for a moment, smiled again, and then waved his hand, causing it to grow infinitely deep and high!!
Now, it didn't look like a piece of paper, but rather, an infinitely wide, infinitely long, infinitely tall box!
"Still missing something." Shaking his head, Bai Xiaochun waved his finger, causing the infinitely long, wide, and tall box to ripple and distort. It seemed to age, blurring, as though the passage of time was transforming it into something illusory, into a vortex, into… space!
It contained everything that made up the starry sky for the past tens of thousands of years, their existences stretched out together. It contained all life forms and all living beings, from the moment they were born until they died, from the moment they existed, until they didn't exist. And everything in between. By stepping into that space, one could appear at any moment that had ever existed."
Well, the first thing is that all the observers could "only sense an aura of essence", which makes clear that the threads he could see weren't actual objects that were physically there.
"As Meng Hao sought Dao enlightenment, the area around him distorted, occasionally expanding, occasionally contracting. Sometimes it would bulge upward and downward, and sometimes it would sweep out to the left or right."
Beyond that, the threads create the space he is inside of (which would obviously be impossible for actual threads to do).
"Within these threads are length, height, breadth, and size. They are limitless, and that is space.... They are flat, but actually...."
And Bai's POV about space in a universe (with time thrown in too).
"The starry sky vanished, leaving behind only… a single point!
It was a singularity of absolutely no length, breadth, or depth!
That singularity existed within the starry sky. It contained all magical laws, all natural laws, and a total of 1,080,000 worlds!
When Bai Xiaochun saw that, he smiled. Waving his finger, he caused the singularity to transform into a line…. It had no breadth or depth, and yet, was infinitely long, with no end.
"I'm missing something, aren't I?" After a moment of thought, he waved his finger again, and the infinitely long line suddenly became infinitely wide!
Because it was infinitely long and wide, it was actually impossible to tell which direction was which. Such descriptions could only exist in one's thoughts.
From a distance, it almost looked like an enormous sheet of paper, spread out through the starry sky. Bai Xiaochun looked at it for a moment, smiled again, and then waved his hand, causing it to grow infinitely deep and high!!
Now, it didn't look like a piece of paper, but rather, an infinitely wide, infinitely long, infinitely tall box!
"Still missing something." Shaking his head, Bai Xiaochun waved his finger, causing the infinitely long, wide, and tall box to ripple and distort. It seemed to age, blurring, as though the passage of time was transforming it into something illusory, into a vortex, into… space!
It contained everything that made up the starry sky for the past tens of thousands of years, their existences stretched out together. It contained all life forms and all living beings, from the moment they were born until they died, from the moment they existed, until they didn't exist. And everything in between. By stepping into that space, one could appear at any moment that had ever existed."
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@Ricsi Isn't the Bai thing from a different story than ISSTH?
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Yes, but they are from the same verse. Bai later went to Meng's universe for a vacation.
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Oh, didn't realize this was a connected universe
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@Andy it's not ISSTH, but still the same verse
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