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Er-gen verse, 1-A downgrade discussion.

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Well, those are actually special cases. For the first, he "messed" with the River of Time and Space (it must be noted that the River of Space and Time isn't the Essence of Space (or time). One is a river that might as well be considered a separate "being" with infinite Essences and stuff, the other is..well, Essence of Space), which is possibly 5th step+ thing going from the end of AWE, and back then MH just entered 4th.

As for the Karma stuff, there's no way Meng Hao is still limited by it. Like, absolutely no way. What he did is called the process of reaping Karma, why Sever it when you can reap it and advance your cultivation? That is by no way limitation, it's just logic imo. (especially when way before the 4th step he could already sense all Karma threads linking him to more powerful cultivators, so a mortal would be a breeze) But all of that is irrelevant about your main point either way, I understand your skepticism about him being able to destroy Essence or not. As for me, I believe that if one can create , why can't he destroy. Anyway, as Ric said : " They can at least play around with it and modify it at will. " XD.
 
That was the River of Time of the Vast Expanse, does it even have anything to do with the one in AWE? Pretty sure different dimensions have different rivers. Regardless, being the platonic concept of time, the Essence of Time would definitely have to include the River of Time. If not, this quote wouldn't make much sense:

Essence exists outside of Time, but simultaneously creates and contains all time
He says himself that it was like a huge weight had been lifted out of his shoulders. Even if he can sever Karma, I don't think he can just destroy the concept of Karma altogether.

Creating Essence wouldn't necessarily mean he can destroy any. Some Essences are more powerful than others, Space being particularly op, for example. Same way a Quasi-Dao Terracota soldier could destroy Daos, but I really doubt he could just destroy, say, the Dao of Reality.
 
No, that isn't something that there is any reason to assume. A guy from another dimension summoned the same river that Bai uses, the river is never stated to be connected to any one dimension or place, and it's always referred to in singular.

And the River of Time and Space is what contains infinite essences, not the other way around.
 
It says that it was made from time of the Vast Expanse:

The natural and magical laws in the area all transformed into spiralling threads, which merged together to form a mighty river. It was a river formed, not from water, but from the fragments of time which existed in the starry sky of the Vast Expanse. Within that flowing river were numerous vicious beasts, one of which was a crocodilian creature fully 30,000 meters long. As it rose up from within the river, it looked like a hulking island.
 
Meng also stops specifically the River of Time of the Vale of the Godgrave, so there are different rivers for different dimensions, it seems:

The Third Hex caused the river of time in the dimension to slow to a halt. Time had no boundaries, no limits, no end, and yet the flow of time was stopped.
Or at least the part of the river that passed through there
 
All right.I have to present my honest opinion.This matt person wants the dimensions.Why?bcoz all popular have them.Even though no series explictly states there properties.They just exist.Now they are used for power scaling.If this matt person does not get the dimensions he is willing to ignore all other hints of 1-A(like some stated above).Even though it is stated essence is above space-time(which in itself should contain all the dimensions) nope.He wants the dimensions.Suppose if xianxia was popular before the concept of dimensions.Every thing measured in terms of spatial law densities and higher realms.Then such threads would have been completly role reversed.It is almost like this guy wants his god to be absolute so eliminating other gods.SPACE TIME SHOULD CONTAIN ALL THE DIMENSIONS SO WHY SHOULD IT BE MENTIONED.If the concept of dimensions Was brought on in the first place it is a given that the space should contain higher dimensions(1D 2D 3D....no reason to stop there).Also tell me have you ever seen 4-D in action.Nope.All I see is 3-D.When even other series can't show 4-D,How do you suppose some chinese author to explain it to you.
 
Those are some great reasons!

Seriously tough Matt, are you being an asshole on porpuse? Your opinion of this being an echo gender fell on it's face when they gave you he choice to argue with one person in a proper manner and you were a no-show. And you were active on the wiki so saying that you were too busy to even give a time when you'll be free ain't holding up.

And Ultima agreed that it fits true platonic concept, so yes they agreed
 
Also the reasons for 1A seems good enough with later on post. If you ask for current or DC to prove they are even in tier 1 it would be very difficult but no one asks for it
 
Also I saw matthew debunk a similar magi thread.Dude your Absolute dimensional ideology is gonna ruin a lot of verses.maybe it would be better If we rate characters on actual feats Rather than my infinity more infinite than your infinity which should be infinitly trancending character 3's infinity.Also there are other series in er gen verse maybe we can get some "dimensions"in them.
 
I know I'm no grmar god, but please use punctuations.

And they were used. The dimensional stuff comes from ISSTH, and the platonic concept from A Will Eternal.

Anyways, Bai could warp all essences with "a stir of his Will", and he had yet to be full on fifth step, so I'd say 1-A is justified with Ultima accepting essence as platonic.
 
I don't think he has debunked ergenverse. Aside from saying it is not 1A/1B he hasn't provided any evidence. The only thing that bugs me is that despite being provided many evidence by users above he is denying justbecause it is a generally unknown verse. Current DC is like what 6D and Marvel is hardly infinite in both size and dimensions
 
I've been following the thread for a while but haven't been able to keep up with everything,hell I don't even know the verse,so what's the arguments against 1-A?
 
Matt stop, you were literally requested to pick a time to your suiting and debate your arguments in a comfortable manner. The fact that you didn't do that and then come on to say shit like:

"All that this thread became was a bunch of people who like the series and want to upgrade it discussing of how to do it, effectively creating an isolated echo chamber around it."

"All my reasons have already been laid out but they're just ignored by randos who try to paint me as a tyrant."

Is just utterly ridiculous. Have the minimum amount of self-awareness when debating instead of solely antogonizing the opposition without acknowledging your own faults
 
First Witch said:
Matt, with all due respect, youre not helping this thread at all. If your contribution to this thread continues to only consist of vague "I dont see it"'s and "no its not"'s it would be really better if you withdraw for now.

The opposition asked multiple times for you to elaborate what the problem with their evidence is. But instead of actually elaborating, youre dropping one liners that do not contribute to the topic at hand at all. Do you actually want this topic to be concluded without another full thread or do you just want to shove your opinion down everyones throat and force your view on this verse onto the wiki with no one else (Like you know, people who actually read the series) being able to at least discuss it out properly?

I know i know, youre probably really busy with so many things on wiki and of wiki. But if thats the case then let this one rest, wait till youre actually ready to debate it out. If you being stressed leads to you calling the other side as stone walls just because they want an actual discussion then just stop participating. Especially when youre the actual stone wall in this discussion.

I dont say that your opinion is invalid or anything. I believe that if you actually discuss we would reach to a satisfying conclusion. Ant dosnt values your opinion so highly for nothing. But as it stands now, i dont see any of that here.
Click to expand...
Literally this Matt.

You were asked to do what you're supposed to do on a crt. Argue.

You didn't. That's it. No shit people will not care about your opinion if you don't actually contribute to the discussion.
 
I agree with the thing that matt is being pressurised into believing.But,the real problem here is the fact that the definition of essence here has some components of 1-A,while having nothing on dimensions.Has anyone read other ergen nove
 
Again Dark, your point doesn't make much sense. The essence of space was already showed, and it literally incorporates width, depth, and height.

And this re coming from multiple works.

And no, he isn't pressured. He was asked to argue, he didn't. He can believe whatever he wants, but that doesn't matter without an argument.
 
Oh but I m on the 1-A side.also going by matthew's logic some other verses like magi will be seriously downplayed bcoz they follow xianxia like cosmology(higher realms)
 
Darksmash said:
Oh but I m on the 1-A side.also going by matthew's logic some other verses like magi will be seriously downplayed bcoz they follow xianxia like cosmology(higher realms)
Click to expand...
Doesn't magi follow higher reality?
 
@Darkmash because things that from mythology/religion/philosophy etc that appears on fiction can be vastly different each other.We dont rate every Zeus in fiction the same as Zeus in mythology. Not all Platonic concept in fiction is 1-A which is why we have false platonic concept. Even when dimensions are involved you still need to prove that these dimensions meet our standards for dimensions.

Also, we use things other than dimensions. Check the Composite Hierarchies page. As long as these planes of existence/realms has dimension like quality then it can be used
 
Darksmash said:
so why do they use the dimensions from real world science?
Click to expand...
We don't, we use an interpretation of dimensions that is prevalent in fictional works and only when the verse in questions proves that it's abiding by that interpretation
 
@Darksmash

"Dimensions from real world science."

No, the interpretation of dimensions used here isn't even remotely close to real life.
 
That implies that meng hao can not probably be classified as 1-A (as it was stated(probably)there is an even bigger world out there.so big that meng hao's multiverse paled in comparison)
 
Uh... no?

The fifth step is above him, sure, but "realm" refers to his powerlevel here (like in AWE, where there is the sovereign realm, the eternal relm, and the fifth step/unknown realm).

And he is half a step into fifth realm regardless.
 
Oh I see.Btw aren't tier 1 characters a bit difficult to debate.I mean people compare them with the size of their omniverses.It is almost like comparing two character's own strength on the basis of the size of their kingdoms(which is absurd).
 
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