Equal Stats Tournament 2022: Rex Salazar vs Number man

[FRIMI]

I'm also gonna vote rex unless @Peppersalt43 has anything else to add

 

[Peppersalt43]

I'm also gonna vote rex unless @Peppersalt43 has anything else to add

Honestly I'm just waiting for @ShadowWhoWalks to get here. I don't know what else to add at this point

 

[Wokistan]

Yeah uh I gotta say Number Man is just not an okay character for a stats equal tournament, becuase he already has a bunch of feats of cheating. People who should dramatically outstat him get physically manhandled due to his math nonsense. With equal stats, Rex can't block the gunfire, so even without getting into anything else he's just sprayed down before being able to get anywhere near number man.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Honestly I'm just waiting for @ShadowWhoWalks to get here. I don't know what else to add at this point

Or @Wokistan I guess

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah uh I gotta say Number Man is just not an okay character for a stats equal tournament, becuase he already has a bunch of feats of cheating. People who should dramatically outstat him get physically manhandled due to his math nonsense. With equal stats, Rex can't block the gunfire, so even without getting into anything else he's just sprayed down before being able to get anywhere near number man.

The AP is relative instead of equal then? Anyways Rex just dodges all of Number Man’s attacks and then outsmarts him and oneshots him.

 

[Wokistan]

Nah this thread is definitely titled "Equal stats tournament". He's not dodging the bullets with number man's wacky aim feats, he's not outsmarting him in general, and he's not one shotting him given that their stats are treated as the same. I'll post a few of the feats in a bit.

 

[Jag50]

Yeah uh I gotta say Number Man is just not an okay character for a stats equal tournament, becuase he already has a bunch of feats of cheating. People who should dramatically outstat him get physically manhandled due to his math nonsense. With equal stats, Rex can't block the gunfire, so even without getting into anything else he's just sprayed down before being able to get anywhere near number man.

Either Rex's Nanites adapt or Rex himself does it since even time manipulators had issues with his fighting ability.

 

[DemonicDude]

While speed is equal those characters who "specifically" has Stats Amp abilities to boost their speed can such as Sanji who did against Vegeta in Round 8 if Rex doesn't have any kind of speed boost then speed is equal.

 

[Jag50]

While speed is equal those characters who "specifically" has Stats Amp abilities to boost their speed can such as Sanji who did against Vegeta in Round 8 if Rex doesn't have any kind of speed boost then speed is equal.

His Punk Busters can give him short Burst speed boosts.

 

[Wokistan]

Information Quantity
Number Man's able to math out that an attack manifests every possible variation of itself into one space. There's around 10^90 alt universes in worm. This is such a ridiculous number that I don't really feel like I need to post more stuff for quantity.

The Number Man was already moving, the mathematical notation filling his field of vision, singing in his ears, running along his skin. He could taste it, virtually swam in a clear, precise, organized outline of the world around him.

His weight shifted as he found his center of balance. He kicked out to push himself to the left.

Three-zero-one-six manifested the strike as though his arm were exponentially larger, the attack repeated in almost infinite variations through the space in front of him, as though he were leveraging every possible version of himself that could have been here, in this basement, drawing them together in one coordinated strike.

Interlude 21[/TD]

With that, the process will begin anew. The same things will occur. This has happened no less than one hundred and seventy times, with little variation. Each time it occurs, realities are left dead, the grace period before resources run out once again is shorter. That the number of worlds exceed the number of particles that might exist in one world’s universe is inconsequential; the creatures multiply exponentially.

Melee Combat
When he was at most 12, his power was used to aim Jack Slash's power up King's nose to strike his Corona Pollentia and kill him. This was done because King has a power that lets him transfer harm inflicted on him away to others on reaction, but destroying his Corona also destroys his power.

Panda: So Jack and Harbinger just stopped giving ***** and stabbed him over and over until all of his pawns died, huh?

Panda: Only way I could see him being taken out like that.

Wildbow: Jack's power up King's nose, to strike the same 'sweet spot' that snipers aim for.

Panda: Oh. Oh wow.

Wildbow: Using Harbinger's power to aim. Followed by stabby aftermath to guarantee it was over..

Panda: That's gruesome and impressive. - Conversation with Wildbow on the IRC, Archived on Spaccebattles.

Now, as for why the Corona stuff is kinda dumb, let's head on over to Bonesaw's statements on the matter.

“See, there’s this part of the brain that people who study parahumans call the Corona Pollentia, not to be confused with the Corona Radiata. It’s a part of the brain that’s different in parahumans, and it’s the part that’s used to manage powers, when the powers can be managed. More specifically, there’s this part of the Corona they call the Gemma, that controls the active use of the power, the same way there are parts of the brain that allow us to coordinate and move our hands.”

She ran her fingers over my exposed scalp, massaging it, as if she were feeling the shape of my head. “The size, shape and location of the Corona and the Gemma changes from parahuman to parahuman, but it tends to sit between the frontal and the parietal lobe. Beneath the ‘crown’ of the head, if you will. They can’t really lobotomize the Corona in criminals. Some of that’s because the location and shape of the Corona depends on the powers and how they work, and trial and error doesn’t work with the scary bad guys who can melt flesh or breathe lasers.”

She tilted my head back and felt around the edges of my mask, trying to find the part where she could pull it off. “I’m really good at figuring out where the Corona and the Gemma are. I can even guess most of the time, if I know what powers the person has. And I can pry it wide open, make it so the powers can’t be turned off, or I can temporarily disable it, or modify it. The powder I blew into your face? It has the same prions I put in the darts I shot your friends with. Cripples the Gemma, but it leaves your powers intact. Can’t experiment with your abilities if I’ve fried your whole Corona Pollentia, right? Right.”

Snare 13.9

As per her statements, the multinational government organization with access to top surgeons isn't able to consistently find the Corona in parahumans, and they'd be doing surgery under normal conditions. Number Man's feat here is directing someone else's hand to strike in such a precise manner that brain surgeons in a low stress situation with a brain right available for them cannot replicate what he has done. Bonesaw herself is a tinker with a specialization in biology, meaning that she makes tech which is literally impossible for humans, in the true sense of the word literally. She's also rather ridiculous even among tinkers, but this isn't a Bonesaw thread.

Clones of 12 year old number man are able to dodge explosions at point blank, and dodge swarms of bugs.

Hoyden exploded, but the Harbingers didn’t get hurt. They spun, spreading the damage around like a person might roll to absorb a fall, ducking and sidestepping to put themselves at the periphery of the effect.

Interlude 26a

The young man closed in. Still smiling. **** me, was that smug smile irritating. I felt a moment’s sympathy for people who’d had to face down Tattletale. I sicced my swarm on him.

He moved through the incoming insects, eyes open and unblinking as he closed the distance to me. Only a few landed, and they landed in spots where they couldn’t target more vulnerable areas.

That he wasn’t closing his eyes was telling. I used my bugs to try and blind him, to keep him from seeing how I was moving, and I reached behind my back, going for the pepper spray.

Venom 29.7

Via abusing leverage, they're able to restrain opponents far stronger than themselves (Bitch's dogs)

A group advanced on the canines without fear. Two people to Huntress, two to Bastard. Young men, if my swarm-sense was correct. The animals weren’t as big as they could get, but they were about as large as a couch. Yet the men didn’t show any fear.

They moved fluidly as the animals lunged, snapping and biting. Confident movements. Two caught Huntress’ head, wrenched it to the side, while the others avoided snapping jaws to catch Bastard’s forelimbs, bodily hauling him up and then throwing him to the ground.

The two animals were brought down in as many seconds. Pinned, as inexplicably as Lung was pinned. Except this wasn’t sheer strength. They were strategic, targeting body parts, one of the young men leveraging his whole body between Bastard’s forelimbs, forcing them apart in a way that the dog’s musculature couldn’t combat.

(...)


Lung and Huntress were pinned by Alexandria. Or by Pretender wearing Alexandria’s body, in a way. Lung was changing, the canines swelling in size, and yet she didn’t look worried. Bastard was still on the ground, one of the boys looking as unconcerned as one could look while holding down a half-ton animal.

Venom 29.7

Jumping into some Ward feats, lets use the Dripfeed stuff. Dripfeed is an artificial combat thinker made by Teacher, who has the ability to convert people into low grade thinkers and tinkers. He can hit people in such a way that their body shuts down and they suffer a disproportionate amount of damage, and this is all through an analysis/perception/intelligence power as opposed to biological manipulation.

Dripfeed was fighting a young woman who was dissolving into bands of flesh. The bands cut the soldier.

But he fought back. He slipped past reaching bands, ducking low, then stepped in close. Fingers stabbed at flesh, targeting specific areas. Where the flesh wasn’t yet dissolved with her power, Dripfeed’s death touch did its work. Each hit used a thinker power to figure out ways to convince the body to produce its own poisons or work counter to its own interests.

She coughed loudly, then expelled a mouthful of vomit with a third cough.

One hit could be enough, without medical care to reverse its effects. Heart arrhythmia that cascaded into heart failure. Carbon Dioxide bubbles manifesting in the bloodstream as the result of very specific wavelengths. Clots were forced to form by impacted sites of damage, that would immediately float free and lead to stroke. Dripfeed could be sadistic, too, leaving people brain damaged and drooling, or paralyzed and aware.


Dying 15.x (Ward link)

The rest of his group is enhanced to a similar degree, although in different aspects. Dripfeed's the important one for melee though. This is because another clone of 12 year old Number Man is considered a worst case scenario for these guys to fight, and the whole group is swiftly killed by him and his teammates once he shows up. He also paralyzes the squad leader with a strike of his own before executing him. That punch on its own would have also been fatal, had the process not been expedited by a bullet.

The boy stepped forward, two weird stuttering steps like he was dancing or feinting, before he lunged forward, closing the distance, and struck the Wasp Commander.

The world spun as the Wasp Commander stepped back, found no footing, and fell into the hole.

His head cracked hard against concrete, and he felt his special knowledge flee him, his regular thoughts scattering into darkness and brightness, stillness, and noise. He tried to lift his arms and legs and found them too heavy.

The boy smiled, looking down at him.

(...)


None of this suited anything. Why had he lost, with his elite soldiers? Why a ******* Harbinger? One of the worst potential threats in the list of enemies he’d been briefed on.

(...)

The Wasp Commander closed his eyes, and found it to be a Herculean effort to get them open again. He considered that he might have blacked out for a second in the process of relaxing his focus.

He was dying, he realized. His focus slipped and overall, he wasn’t recouping what he lost. His brain was just… drifting away, sinking into numb darkness threaded through with jolts of pain that made him want to jump or writhe, though he could barely move.


Dying 15.x (Ward link)

Last of the melee things that I feel like pulling up right now, lets use Sveta as an example. She didn't think she'd survive a fight with one of these clones even if he was unarmed, and this is after being shown to have a biology weird enough that Dripfeed couldn't quickly end the fight.

“How far are you going? What are you really doing here?” she ventured, still not turning around. If there was a gun, there would be no chance. If she dropped and there was something to hold on to, she could-

-probably not live. The boy was Number Man, writ small.

Dying 15.x (Ward link)

There's an argument to be made that she's weaker after certain story events made her body a little less out there compared to normal people, but even at worst she'd be a pretty strong 9-B with atypical biology, superhuman movement speed and durability, and the ability to unfurl into razor sharp tentacles that can shred most anything that comes near her. At best, she'd have her own stats but with better control, which would make her 9-A and durable enough that she can't kill herself.

Ranged Feats
He has more but I want to save time so I'll just nab some stuff I already have open.

Number Man is explicitly better at range than in melee. All that melee stuff above? Inferior to what he can do with a gun. Dude said it himself.

My power is better at range. Better still as I get further away, attack from other angles, in more subtle ways.

Interlude 21

12 year old clones threw something at the big half ton dogs and disabled them.

Golem tore his eyes away from the scene. He glanced down at the street, where Bitch, Parian and Foil were reinforcing Tecton and Hoyden, backing them up as the Harbingers approached. One Harbinger threw something, and a dog dropped like its heart had stopped.

Sting 26.5

Bouncing bullets around.

“Sniper’s active,” Rime’s voice came through the earbuds. She was panting. “Deliberate, accurate shooter. I’ve taken three bullets, ice armor took most of the force out of the shots. Bambina is accompanied by Starlet and August Prince, um. Shooter’s shots ricochet. Can’t dodge. There’s wounded just outside craft. Traffic caught underneath when you fell.“

Drone 23.2

General Feats
I'll just leave off on some stuff that I feel is good to know. Adult Number Man is significantly better than his juvenile counterparts. He and Contessa fight eight at once, killing three and conscripting the other five when they surrender. Scion notes that despite them all having the same power, adult Number Man's connection to it is a lot more mature.

The entity observed the ongoing conflict. No less than five seconds after it had been trapped, two figures had emerged from a doorway between worlds. The entity could see the paths forming, trace them back to the source. Another world, a living world without a shard occupying it.

They engaged the eight with their own perception abilities, intervening to assist a group of others. As a pair, they opened fire with guns, then waded into hand to hand combat.

The entity looked at the male, and it saw the connection to the same shard as the eight. His connection was stronger, more mature.

It looked at the female, and it saw a shard that wasn’t its own, but wasn’t dead.

Puzzling.

The fight progressed. Strikes with weapons and with the creature’s limbs were evaded, a careful dance of attacks where each edge and bludgeon touched skin, many even shaving off the finer hairs from cheeks, noses and chins.

The male fought the eight in such a way that they couldn’t move without exposing themselves to attacks from the female. Each movement placed the male in a path for obvious harm, a fatal blow, but the eight could not capitalize on that. At the same time, he positioned himself in such a way that four or five at a time were unable to retreat. Not just in reach of weapons, but in reach of arms, elbows, for being taken hostage.

The female felled three of the eight, and the situation was decided. The remaining five dropped to a position where they sat on their knees. She spoke, and an interdimensional portal appeared behind them.

Interlude 26

Victoria Dallon and Citrine both agree that he could solo Cradle's army, were Citrine and Number Man not preoccupied with a greater threat. Victoria's group was being helped out by two of the clones of Number Man, which were useful but did not solo the entire army without leaving a trace the way the adult one apparently could.

“We could use that husband of yours on the field, if the stories I hear are right,” I said. “He’s good enough that he could do it and not leave a trail that leads to you.”

“He is. Unfortunately, we’re being targeted. There are no valid moves on this board that don’t put us at risk of being picked off.”

Teacher?

I clenched my fist, angry.

Blinding 11.12 (Ward link)

Based off of this and something else, I actually think now that there's a decent argument to be made that he outstrips another utterly ridiculous combat thinker, March. Due to being made later, March's profile actually has her feats linked on the page, so I'm not reposting them all. I'd direct special attention to the bit where March's aim is so good that she was mistakenly believed by Tattletale to have stolen an aim power that made the user literally incapable of missing even when actively trying to. Anyways, reason #1 is in the quote above. March was among Cradle's army. Reason number two involves a third character, Foil. Before this paragraph gets any more bloated I'll post the quote.

Foil opened fire with her crossbow, aiming so it was on a path to hit two of the enemies, and the Harbingers dodged the shot.

She’s not supposed to miss.

Interlude 26a

Foil has the same powerset as March, but distributed differently. Same core trio of aim, timing, and dura neg, but Foil skews the most towards dura neg and March towards timing. March is really weird, and Foil's had to deal with her for years. They have an on page fight in Ward but it's like half an entire chapter so I'm not pasting that whole thing over, I'll find what one if people are really skeptical. Point is, Foil's comparable to March, but overall worse in terms of combat acumen due to March being biased more towards extra thinker power. I don't think, however, that the gap between them will be the same as the gap between 12 year old Number Man and 40ish year old Number Man, given the above quotes.

I'd actually been rewatching Generator Rex at a time when I thought that maybe I'd end up revising some things, and I genuinely have no idea how to pull him having better combat feats than this. His main advantage is much higher numbers, and that's nullified by this being a stat equal tournament. His weapons are nice, but less efficient than just gunning someone down. I'll toss my vote to the literary nerd over the animation nerd.

Yes, Number Man's profile is a bit misleading and could benefit from usage of that feats section.

 

[Peppersalt43]

@Greenshifter, @Jag50, are you two gonna respond to that?

 

[Jag50]

Information Quantity
Number Man's able to math out that an attack manifests every possible variation of itself into one space. There's around 10^90 alt universes in worm. This is such a ridiculous number that I don't really feel like I need to post more stuff for quantity.



Melee Combat
When he was at most 12, his power was used to aim Jack Slash's power up King's nose to strike his Corona Pollentia and kill him. This was done because King has a power that lets him transfer harm inflicted on him away to others on reaction, but destroying his Corona also destroys his power.

Now, as for why the Corona stuff is kinda dumb, let's head on over to Bonesaw's statements on the matter.

As per her statements, the multinational government organization with access to top surgeons isn't able to consistently find the Corona in parahumans, and they'd be doing surgery under normal conditions. Number Man's feat here is directing someone else's hand to strike in such a precise manner that brain surgeons in a low stress situation with a brain right available for them cannot replicate what he has done. Bonesaw herself is a tinker with a specialization in biology, meaning that she makes tech which is literally impossible for humans, in the true sense of the word literally. She's also rather ridiculous even among tinkers, but this isn't a Bonesaw thread.

Clones of 12 year old number man are able to dodge explosions at point blank, and dodge swarms of bugs.



Via abusing leverage, they're able to restrain opponents far stronger than themselves (Bitch's dogs)


Jumping into some Ward feats, lets use the Dripfeed stuff. Dripfeed is an artificial combat thinker made by Teacher, who has the ability to convert people into low grade thinkers and tinkers. He can hit people in such a way that their body shuts down and they suffer a disproportionate amount of damage, and this is all through an analysis/perception/intelligence power as opposed to biological manipulation.

The rest of his group is enhanced to a similar degree, although in different aspects. Dripfeed's the important one for melee though. This is because another clone of 12 year old Number Man is considered a worst case scenario for these guys to fight, and the whole group is swiftly killed by him and his teammates once he shows up. He also paralyzes the squad leader with a strike of his own before executing him. That punch on its own would have also been fatal, had the process not been expedited by a bullet.


Last of the melee things that I feel like pulling up right now, lets use Sveta as an example. She didn't think she'd survive a fight with one of these clones even if he was unarmed, and this is after being shown to have a biology weird enough that Dripfeed couldn't quickly end the fight.

There's an argument to be made that she's weaker after certain story events made her body a little less out there compared to normal people, but even at worst she'd be a pretty strong 9-B with atypical biology, superhuman movement speed and durability, and the ability to unfurl into razor sharp tentacles that can shred most anything that comes near her. At best, she'd have her own stats but with better control, which would make her 9-A and durable enough that she can't kill herself.

Ranged Feats
He has more but I want to save time so I'll just nab some stuff I already have open.

Number Man is explicitly better at range than in melee. All that melee stuff above? Inferior to what he can do with a gun. Dude said it himself.


12 year old clones threw something at the big half ton dogs and disabled them.


Bouncing bullets around.


General Feats
I'll just leave off on some stuff that I feel is good to know. Adult Number Man is significantly better than his juvenile counterparts. He and Contessa fight eight at once, killing three and conscripting the other five when they surrender. Scion notes that despite them all having the same power, adult Number Man's connection to it is a lot more mature.


Victoria Dallon and Citrine both agree that he could solo Cradle's army, were Citrine and Number Man not preoccupied with a greater threat. Victoria's group was being helped out by two of the clones of Number Man, which were useful but did not solo the entire army without leaving a trace the way the adult one apparently could.


Based off of this and something else, I actually think now that there's a decent argument to be made that he outstrips another utterly ridiculous combat thinker, March. Due to being made later, March's profile actually has her feats linked on the page, so I'm not reposting them all. I'd direct special attention to the bit where March's aim is so good that she was mistakenly believed by Tattletale to have stolen an aim power that made the user literally incapable of missing even when actively trying to. Anyways, reason #1 is in the quote above. March was among Cradle's army. Reason number two involves a third character, Foil. Before this paragraph gets any more bloated I'll post the quote.

Foil has the same powerset as March, but distributed differently. Same core trio of aim, timing, and dura neg, but Foil skews the most towards dura neg and March towards timing. March is really weird, and Foil's had to deal with her for years. They have an on page fight in Ward but it's like half an entire chapter so I'm not pasting that whole thing over, I'll find what one if people are really skeptical. Point is, Foil's comparable to March, but overall worse in terms of combat acumen due to March being biased more towards extra thinker power. I don't think, however, that the gap between them will be the same as the gap between 12 year old Number Man and 40ish year old Number Man, given the above quotes.

I'd actually been rewatching Generator Rex at a time when I thought that maybe I'd end up revising some things, and I genuinely have no idea how to pull him having better combat feats than this. His main advantage is much higher numbers, and that's nullified by this being a stat equal tournament. His weapons are nice, but less efficient than just gunning someone down. I'll toss my vote to the literary nerd over the animation nerd.

Yes, Number Man's profile is a bit misleading and could benefit from usage of that feats section.

Wait can you further elaborate on that first one? Because we're talking about someone with Semi-Sentient Nano-Machines that can make new weapons or even just violently react to the opponent via pure evolution should they deem it an actual danger to Rex's life. Like shutting a body down without it having anything to do with the biology? I'm kind of lost on that one.

Also Rex's weapons are weapons of mass destruction....So it depends on what you mean by that, gunning people down as in regular guns? His Slam Cannon can rip people's bodies off with even faster speeds than a bullet or just create an AOE.

Rex's skill feats mainly come from Agent Six and the Consortium's demi-god abilities so its more so how you'd compare them to one another.


Because I'm not sure if this character is simply breaking stuff down into a mathematical science as some form of extreme passive hax or if its all just intelligence feats. If it's the former then yeah, That profile is misleading and imo probably needs an entire revamp. If it's the latter, again, Still not sure how it can work around the Nanites inside of Rex, since they feed off of passive stuff like that....But if this is an actual hax superpower then maybe its different. Only if that's the case, though. (Granted WOG still states Rex's Nanites can technically make anything for any calculable situation)

 

[Wokistan]

Wait can you further elaborate on that first one? Because we're talking about someone with Semi-Sentient Nano-Machines that can make new weapons or even just violently react to the opponent via pure evolution should they deem it an actual danger to Rex's life. Like shutting a body down without it having anything to do with the biology? I'm kind of lost on that one.

I'm not really sure what there is to elaborate on. It's a feat for the sheer amount of information he's able to process. That guy he's fighting has the ability to hit way harder than normal via pulling every alt universe version of his arm into that same space, and there's more universes than particles in a single universe. That's where the 10^90 comes from.

Also Rex's weapons are weapons of mass destruction....So it depends on what you mean by that, gunning people down as in regular guns? His Slam Cannon can rip people's bodies off with even faster speeds than a bullet or just create an AOE.

They're not weapons of mass destruction, that term is pretty narrowly defined but stat equalization renders all of this irrelevant anyways. When you equalize stats, it's all a game of proportions. Number Man's guns shoot bullets that travel at a far higher speed than him and will penetrate targets of his caliber easily. If stats are equal, then Rex would be around where he is, and as such is susceptible to just being shot until he dies and being pretty much entirely unable to block it since he defaults to blocking rather than dodging and that doesn't work when you upscale things via equalization like this. Number Man doesn't even need to fully draw his guns to fire them and has shot people from further ranges than I'm aware of Rex doing, and the slam cannon takes quite a while to get ready. Gotta shapeshift into it, let it eat a chunk of the ground, then fire that chunk.Lot slower than a quickdraw.

Rex's skill feats mainly come from Agent Six and the Consortium's demi-god abilities so its more so how you'd compare them to one another.

I'm not aware of any feats that surpass Number Man here, nor have I been presented any. A lot of his stuff is posted above in my wall of text.

 

[Jag50]

I'm not really sure what there is to elaborate on. It's a feat for the sheer amount of information he's able to process. That guy he's fighting has the ability to hit way harder than normal via pulling every alt universe version of his arm into that same space, and there's more universes than particles in a single universe. That's where the 10^90 comes from.


They're not weapons of mass destruction, that term is pretty narrowly defined but stat equalization renders all of this irrelevant anyways. When you equalize stats, it's all a game of proportions. Number Man's guns shoot bullets that travel at a far higher speed than him and will penetrate targets of his caliber easily. If stats are equal, then Rex would be around where he is, and as such is susceptible to just being shot until he dies and being pretty much entirely unable to block it since he defaults to blocking rather than dodging and that doesn't work when you upscale things via equalization like this. Number Man doesn't even need to fully draw his guns to fire them and has shot people from further ranges than I'm aware of Rex doing, and the slam cannon takes quite a while to get ready. Gotta shapeshift into it, let it eat a chunk of the ground, then fire that chunk.Lot slower than a quickdraw.


I'm not aware of any feats that surpass Number Man here, nor have I been presented any. A lot of his stuff is posted above in my wall of text.

I'm essentially asking if this lies more as a passive hax ability for number man or a raw skill/intelligence feat.

Because even with full context only the former of these would pose an issue to the ability Rex's Nanites have. The latter wouldn't exactly translate as well to his advantage without primarily theorizing.



Flight advantage abuse, Aerial spam, Precog, reactive evolution, Nanites subconsciously taking control of his actions without consent, Nanites making new weapons to counter, etc. I could go on with the issues on that end, even if he was to be vulnerable in those instances. Not disregarding Number Man's skill of course because I am rereading this again.


Which again goes back to my original question. Is this considered more passive hax or pure intelligence/skill? The former would be more to his benefit. Otherwise I'm still not sure what's threatening or stopping his Nanites from adapting and exploiting.

I'm reading a LOT of biological, pressure points, turning everything into a solvable equation and whatnot. Which is insane.

But I'm trying to find how this can counteract the reactive evolution and defense systems, more of less. Because again, WOG confirmation has Rex's Nanites making ANYTHING to counteract an issue his pre-existing powers cannot deal with.

With the only weaknesses of course likely being reality and law breaking stuff or just flat out far superior stats.

 

[Greenshifter]

Nah this thread is definitely titled "Equal stats tournament"

I meant why can he shoot through Rex's shields despite equal stats, is the AP gap between himself and his rifle still there?

He's not dodging the bullets with number man's wacky aim feats

Rex upscales from Vilgax who's been essentially untouched by a planetary army of ghosts for weeks and Rex can also burrow underground (assuming equal AP doesn't prevent that) where Number Man can't touch him or fly outside of his range. Rex can also (dura neg) slice all the bullets by using his buzzsaw(s) against them.

he's not outsmarting him in general

Rex consistently beats and even outsmarts extraordinary to supergeniuses in a fight due to his unpredictability and own intellect (but I wouldn't really put him at that rating himself).

and he's not one shotting

Dura neg, read the rest of the thread.

The only way I can see it being unfair is if Number Man's got a massive speed advantage with his rifle due to speed equalization keeping relative differences (but if we equalize reactions this is kind of fixed).

 

[DemonicDude]

His Punk Busters can give him short Burst speed boosts.

Would that be enough to deliver the final blow tho ? Cause from the scans posted above Number man accuracy seems very good, either Rex closes the gap via speed amp or get's shot tho if it comes down to close quarter combat which seems unlikely having far higher LS Class G should give him win in physical combat or via dura neg.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Does Number Man get a sniper rifle, and if so does the sniper rifle get its stats buffed?

 

[DemonicDude]

Does Number Man get a sniper rifle, and if so does the sniper rifle get its stats buffed?

Sniper uses AP and that's equalized for both.

 

[Greenshifter]

Sniper uses AP and that's equalized for both.

You should preferably discuss the specific mechanics of speed and AP equalization with staff like Wok for this tourney. I assume that due to being the tournament host, you have the final say in how exactly everything gets equalized though.

 

[DemonicDude]

I already have if a character uses summons then those are completely different entities which we saw in VTSG vs Nia match if he uses AP the AP is Equalized unless a character has specifically "Statistics amplification" that should give him them a boost if the rifle is specifically stated to have Stats Amp then it should be faster but then again Rex Punk busters also gives him slight boost, I'm calling the supervisor to have a look here.

 

[Popted2]

You should preferably discuss the specific mechanics of speed and AP equalization with staff like Wok for this tourney. I assume that due to being the tournament host, you have the final say in how exactly everything gets equalized though.

if the sniper is an ap then yes it gets equliazed as well, for the speed part, i'll wait a supervisor as well

 

[Greenshifter]

Can I argue that Rex's shield is way more durable than his body or not then?

 

[DemonicDude]

Sure

 

[Greenshifter]

It seems that combat speed gets equalized in normal circumstances per the versus thread rules. This would in fact lead to the sniper rifle and Number Man's reactions being way faster than Rex. Which makes me wonder how that works in-verse for him if his combat speed is so much inferior to his reaction speed. This could be a problem for the rest of the tournament.

 

[Popted2]

then every speed should be equalized

even weapons and reactions

if it is a problem please tell me

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah I'm not sure if other people will complain about that, but for me that's fine.

 

[Jag50]

He did come in here stating that Number Man in general is bad for stat equalized tournaments so that might be another can of worms in itself.

 

[Greenshifter]

and they'd be doing surgery under normal conditions

Considering they state that trial and error isn't an option it doesn't seem like "normal conditions" to me.

Number Man's feat here is directing someone else's hand to strike in such a precise manner that brain surgeons in a low stress situation with a brain right available for them cannot replicate what he has done

Rex is so precise that he can make a sculpture of himself in seconds with his buzzsaw, pretty much something ridiculous you'd see in an old cartoon. He can also hit the alpha nanite with Cannonbolt and he used his goggles to see on the nanite/molecular level for that.

Via abusing leverage, they're able to restrain opponents far stronger than themselves

The last guy who restrained Rex ended up in pieces since Rex drilled his body apart while he was getting crushed.

He can hit people in such a way that their body shuts down and they suffer a disproportionate amount of damage, and this is all through an analysis/perception/intelligence power as opposed to biological manipulation.

In a last resort scenario I don't think there's anything preventing Rex from going full EVO mode and transforming into his giant robot form, at which point I think Number Man can't exploit his biology anymore (or to a lesser degree since I heard he has stuff against power armors).

I'm not really sure what there is to elaborate on. It's a feat for the sheer amount of information he's able to process. That guy he's fighting has the ability to hit way harder than normal via pulling every alt universe version of his arm into that same space, and there's more universes than particles in a single universe. That's where the 10^90 comes from.

I don't really see where it's said that he processed all the attacks of that guy's superimposed selves.

Phew, glad I got through that wall of text.

 

[Greenshifter]

He did come in here stating that Number Man in general is bad for stat equalized tournaments so that might be another can of worms in itself.

Hey if he prefers stats unequal for this match I won't oppose KEK.

 

[TauanVictor]

Rex FRA.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Number Man FRA

 

[Greenshifter]

Anyways it seems we've reached something of an impasse, but considering it's grace, it's a pity we couldn't have worked something out sooner. Breach, if you would (take us to the next match)?

Edit (after Tllmbrg's vote): Sigh, looks like the hard way then.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Sigh, looks like the hard way then.

Time to try and get the other side to back down

I mean, why exactly are we voting? It's not like we can add these to profiles

 

[Greenshifter]

Time to try and get the other side to back down

I mean, why exactly are we voting? It's not like we can add these to profiles

Maybe cause this is a tournament and voting determines who moves on to the next round?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

How well can Rex close the distance?

Number Man can easily snipe from over a kilometer away, can ricochet bullets in ways that prevents his target from dodging, and his prediction powers works even better at range, and he can slow his perception:

My power is better at range. Better still as I get further away, attack from other angles, in more subtle ways.

“Not likely,” the ship reported. “Unless the sniper is capable of moving great distances, he is approximately point seven three five miles away. The missile came from a perpendicular direction.” [...] “Sniper’s active,” Rime’s voice came through the earbuds. She was panting. “Deliberate, accurate shooter. I’ve taken three bullets, ice armor took most of the force out of the shots. Bambina is accompanied by Starlet and August Prince, um. Shooter’s shots ricochet. Can’t dodge. There’s wounded just outside craft. Traffic caught underneath when you fell.“ “Stop talking and get inside,” Prefab said. “Can’t close the gap to the Kulshedra without getting shot again. He’s cutting me off.” “Use crystals to form a wall, get inside, damn it,” Prefab said. “Ricochets,” Rime stressed. “I- shit!” [...] Seeing one of her Wards get taken out of action, Rime made a break for us, my decoys moving parallel to her. The sniper fired, and she went down. One guess, and it was accurate.

He withdrew a pen from his pocket, spun it around one finger. The notation billowed around it, and through it, he could see the movement of the pen, the plotted trajectory, the velocity and rotation of it. The numbers clicked into place with a speed that made the rest of him, his very perceptions, seem like slow motion. [...] He evaded the attack as he had the first, but allowed it to fall closer. Even without looking back, he knew he had the numbers right. The attack with the left arm was the same size each time. The strike passed within an inch of the Number Man. Probability, time, he thought. He was expending less energy on evading the attacks, now. He focused instead on the possible attacks, the range of motion. The notation that sprung forth put him in mind of the Vitruvian Man, expanded to encompass every possible strike that might occur. Not seeing the future, but rather the possible consequences that might unfold. Now the Number Man was free to evade even before the attacks occurred. As a tennis player might move to cover the open court as the opponent’s racket was drawn back in anticipation of a strike, he was bolting for the safe zone, the area where incoming attacks weren’t as likely to fall, where his opponent would have to take time to adjust his orientation to effectively strike. Which would be a fatal mistake on his opponent’s part. [...] “You’ll miss,” the Number Man said. “And I’ll close in and strike you, using my pen and my hand. I can see the stress points of your body, clear as day. I can shatter your skull like a glass, and it would be an exceptionally painful way to die.”

In close range, if Rex's body or armor has any weakness Number Man would be easily able to exploit them even if he was physically weaker (which he isn't here):

Parian’s doll reached out, and the Harbingers slipped out of the way of the hands, dodging by virtual hairs as they spun in tight circles, ducked and rolled. It was like the thing was moving in slow motion, but it wasn’t. A fire axe and two kitchen knives slid through the creature’s body, severing seams. It deflated explosively. [...] Two attacks struck in concert, a kitchen knife and a fire axe, and a heavy piece of Tecton’s armor was decimated, one gauntlet ruined. No use. [...] Chevalier swung his sword, pulled the trigger mid-swing to shoot at one Harbinger that stood on a fingertip of the reaching hand-platform. Both attacks missed. The Harbinger closest to him stepped close, almost casually, and drove a paring knife through a slit in Chevalier’s visor. His good eye, Golem realized. Nobody had figured out Harbinger’s power, before Harbinger disappeared off the face of the planet. It was an ugly reality that such questions weren’t always answered. The best guess suggested a hyperawareness of space and the movements of their own bodies. But being able to figure out that Chevalier was half-blind, being able to blind his good eye? [...] Golem tore his eyes away from the scene. He glanced down at the street, where Bitch, Parian and Foil were reinforcing Tecton and Hoyden, backing them up as the Harbingers approached. One Harbinger threw something, and a dog dropped like its heart had stopped. [...] A group advanced on the canines without fear. Two people to Huntress, two to Bastard. Young men, if my swarm-sense was correct. The animals weren’t as big as they could get, but they were about as large as a couch. Yet the men didn’t show any fear. They moved fluidly as the animals lunged, snapping and biting. Confident movements. Two caught Huntress’ head, wrenched it to the side, while the others avoided snapping jaws to catch Bastard’s forelimbs, bodily hauling him up and then throwing him to the ground. The two animals were brought down in as many seconds. Pinned, as inexplicably asLung was pinned. Except this wasn’t sheer strength. They were strategic, targeting body parts, one of the young men leveraging his whole body between Bastard’s forelimbs, forcing them apart in a way that the dog’s musculature couldn’t combat. It was like holding a crocodile’s mouth shut. Jaw strength aside, the crocodile wasn’t built to force it’s mouth open. The wolf wasn’t built to draw its legs together against its chest, but couldn’t get feet under it to stand without dislodging the offending attacker. The other had his head caught and twisted to one side. Huntress, for her part, was caught by the head alone, which had been forced down. [...] Bastard was still on the ground, one of the boys looking as unconcerned as one could look while holding down a half-ton animal.

 

[Greenshifter]

How well can Rex close the distance?

Rex can form a bubble forcefield around himself and fly towards Number Man with the latter being unable to do anything about it.

 

[Greenshifter]

In close range, if Rex's body or armor has any weakness Number Man would be easily able to exploit them even if he was physically weaker (which he isn't here):

The nanites can counteract any internal damage that Number Man does. (Maybe not if he directly destroys the heart, brain or lungs, or Rex would need to go full robot mode very quickly)

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Why wouldn't he be able to break the shield with calculated consecutive shots?

Also, if Number Man spots Rex first (since he is hyper observant), wouldn't he be able to snipe before the forcefield is brought up?

 

[FRIMI]

by SBA shouldn't they both be aware of each other at the start? Might be misremembering, but I dont think an ambush is possible

 

[Jag50]

Why wouldn't he be able to break the shield with calculated consecutive shots?

Also, if Number Man spots Rex first (since he is hyper observant), wouldn't he be able to snipe before the forcefield is brought up?

Block party is more vulnerable to piercing damage so he could attempt that. (Granted Six's Katana was prolonged) but there's nothing stopping Rex from moving around with the shield or quickly reshaping it as well.

Also Rex would detect him via Breach Sensing precog and his Nanites would react without Rex's consent.