Equal Stats Tournament 2022: Rex Salazar vs Number man

[FRIMI]

I'd like to retract my vote. I'm not actually sure whether or not Number Man could break Rex's shield. It's for sure not incon, I'm just undecided rn

 

[Peppersalt43]

Block party is more vulnerable to piercing damage so he could attempt that. (Granted Six's Katana was prolonged) but there's nothing stopping Rex from moving around with the shield or quickly reshaping it as well.

Also Rex would detect him via Breach Sensing precog and his Nanites would react without Rex's consent.

I'm pretty sure there was an entire section in @Wokistan feat essay regarding how The Number Man can avoid other people's precog. Is Rex's precog baseline? Because if so, it might get countered

 

[Jag50]

I'm pretty sure there was an entire section in @Wokistan feat essay regarding how The Number Man can avoid other people's precog. Is Rex's precog baseline? Because if so, it might get countered

It can sense beings from completely alternate realities/dimensions like Breach. (it's how he obtained the ability in the first place) with Rex even telling her that his Nanites simply just evolved against her portal creation so probably not baseline.

 

[Peppersalt43]

It can sense beings from completely alternate realities/dimensions like Breach. (it's how he obtained the ability in the first place) with Rex even telling her that his Nanites simply just evolved against her portal creation so probably not baseline.

How far above baseline? As explained by @Wokistan, he was able to calculate the possibilities of 10^90 universes. So pretty high at least.

 

[Greenshifter]

It’s spatial awareness, not precog. He essentially gets a Peter tingle when he’s facing dangerous (EVO) opponents or when someone rips into the fabric of space-time.

 

[Peppersalt43]

It’s spatial awareness, not precog. He essentially gets a Peter tingle when he’s facing dangerous (EVO) opponents or when someone rips into the fabric of space-time.

Breach Sensing precog

But anyway, isn't that still precognition? Like the person in Precognition page is Spiderman so you can't use the Peter tingle as a reference

 

[Greenshifter]

Like the person in Precognition page is Spiderman so you can't use the Peter tingle as a reference

Eh good point. It’s listed as extrasensory perception on his page, but it’s also essentially spatial awareness which would fall under that.

 

[Jag50]

It’s spatial awareness, not precog. He essentially gets a Peter tingle when he’s facing dangerous (EVO) opponents or when someone rips into the fabric of space-time.

In "Riddle Of The Sphinx" Rex sensed Dr. Holiday in her disguise while within the tomb so its when facing any threat, really.

 

[Greenshifter]

She has nanites though, but you’re probably right

 

[Peppersalt43]

In "Riddle Of The Sphinx" Rex sensed Dr. Holiday in her disguise while within the tomb so its when facing any threat, really.

Either way, being able to predict danger instantaneously with limited information counts as precog and that means The Number Man can work around it

 

[Greenshifter]

Hmm, what are his feats regarding this? Anyways I don’t think this matters, SBA tells Rex what his nanites would otherwise tell him more or less. And the nanites reacting to stuff after it has happened or while it’s happening isn’t precog.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Hmm, what are his feats regarding this? Anyways I don’t think this matters, SBA tells Rex what his nanites would otherwise tell him more or less. And the nanites reacting to stuff after it has happened or while it’s happening isn’t precog.

So instinctive reaction?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Small summary?

 

[DemonicDude]

Skill argument for Number man

Information Quantity
Number Man's able to math out that an attack manifests every possible variation of itself into one space. There's around 10^90 alt universes in worm. This is such a ridiculous number that I don't really feel like I need to post more stuff for quantity.
Melee Combat
When he was at most 12, his power was used to aim Jack Slash's power up King's nose to strike his Corona Pollentia and kill him. This was done because King has a power that lets him transfer harm inflicted on him away to others on reaction, but destroying his Corona also destroys his power.

Now, as for why the Corona stuff is kinda dumb, let's head on over to Bonesaw's statements on the matter.

As per her statements, the multinational government organization with access to top surgeons isn't able to consistently find the Corona in parahumans, and they'd be doing surgery under normal conditions. Number Man's feat here is directing someone else's hand to strike in such a precise manner that brain surgeons in a low stress situation with a brain right available for them cannot replicate what he has done. Bonesaw herself is a tinker with a specialization in biology, meaning that she makes tech which is literally impossible for humans, in the true sense of the word literally. She's also rather ridiculous even among tinkers, but this isn't a Bonesaw thread.
Clones of 12 year old number man are able to dodge explosions at point blank, and dodge swarms of bugs.
Via abusing leverage, they're able to restrain opponents far stronger than themselves (Bitch's dogs)
Jumping into some Ward feats, lets use the Dripfeed stuff. Dripfeed is an artificial combat thinker made by Teacher, who has the ability to convert people into low grade thinkers and tinkers. He can hit people in such a way that their body shuts down and they suffer a disproportionate amount of damage, and this is all through an analysis/perception/intelligence power as opposed to biological manipulation.

The rest of his group is enhanced to a similar degree, although in different aspects. Dripfeed's the important one for melee though. This is because another clone of 12 year old Number Man is considered a worst case scenario for these guys to fight, and the whole group is swiftly killed by him and his teammates once he shows up. He also paralyzes the squad leader with a strike of his own before executing him. That punch on its own would have also been fatal, had the process not been expedited by a bullet.

Last of the melee things that I feel like pulling up right now, lets use Sveta as an example. She didn't think she'd survive a fight with one of these clones even if he was unarmed, and this is after being shown to have a biology weird enough that Dripfeed couldn't quickly end the fight.

There's an argument to be made that she's weaker after certain story events made her body a little less out there compared to normal people, but even at worst she'd be a pretty strong 9-B with atypical biology, superhuman movement speed and durability, and the ability to unfurl into razor sharp tentacles that can shred most anything that comes near her. At best, she'd have her own stats but with better control, which would make her 9-A and durable enough that she can't kill herself.

Ranged Feats
He has more but I want to save time so I'll just nab some stuff I already have open.

Number Man is explicitly better at range than in melee. All that melee stuff above? Inferior to what he can do with a gun. Dude said it himself.

12 year old clones threw something at the big half ton dogs and disabled them.

Bouncing bullets around.

General Feats
I'll just leave off on some stuff that I feel is good to know. Adult Number Man is significantly better than his juvenile counterparts. He and Contessa fight eight at once, killing three and conscripting the other five when they surrender. Scion notes that despite them all having the same power, adult Number Man's connection to it is a lot more mature.

Victoria Dallon and Citrine both agree that he could solo Cradle's army, were Citrine and Number Man not preoccupied with a greater threat. Victoria's group was being helped out by two of the clones of Number Man, which were useful but did not solo the entire army without leaving a trace the way the adult one apparently could.

Based off of this and something else, I actually think now that there's a decent argument to be made that he outstrips another utterly ridiculous combat thinker, March. Due to being made later, March's profile actually has her feats linked on the page, so I'm not reposting them all. I'd direct special attention to the bit where March's aim is so good that she was mistakenly believed by Tattletale to have stolen an aim power that made the user literally incapable of missing even when actively trying to. Anyways, reason #1 is in the quote above. March was among Cradle's army. Reason number two involves a third character, Foil. Before this paragraph gets any more bloated I'll post the quote.

Foil has the same powerset as March, but distributed differently. Same core trio of aim, timing, and dura neg, but Foil skews the most towards dura neg and March towards timing. March is really weird, and Foil's had to deal with her for years. They have an on page fight in Ward but it's like half an entire chapter so I'm not pasting that whole thing over, I'll find what one if people are really skeptical. Point is, Foil's comparable to March, but overall worse in terms of combat acumen due to March being biased more towards extra thinker power. I don't think, however, that the gap between them will be the same as the gap between 12 year old Number Man and 40ish year old Number Man, given the above quotes.

I'd actually been rewatching Generator Rex at a time when I thought that maybe I'd end up revising some things, and I genuinely have no idea how to pull him having better combat feats than this. His main advantage is much higher numbers, and that's nullified by this being a stat equal tournament. His weapons are nice, but less efficient than just gunning someone down. I'll toss my vote to the literary nerd over the animation nerd.

Yes, Number Man's profile is a bit misleading and could benefit from usage of that feats section.

Counter 1:

I meant why can he shoot through Rex's shields despite equal stats, is the AP gap between himself and his rifle still there?

Rex upscales from Vilgax who's been essentially untouched by a planetary army of ghosts for weeks and Rex can also burrow underground (assuming equal AP doesn't prevent that) where Number Man can't touch him or fly outside of his range. Rex can also (dura neg) slice all the bullets by using his buzzsaw(s) against them.

Rex consistently beats and even outsmarts extraordinary to supergeniuses in a fight due to his unpredictability and own intellect (but I wouldn't really put him at that rating himself).

Dura neg, read the rest of the thread.

The only way I can see it being unfair is if Number Man's got a massive speed advantage with his rifle due to speed equalization keeping relative differences (but if we equalize reactions this is kind of fixed).

Counter 2:

I'm essentially asking if this lies more as a passive hax ability for number man or a raw skill/intelligence feat.

Because even with full context only the former of these would pose an issue to the ability Rex's Nanites have. The latter wouldn't exactly translate as well to his advantage without primarily theorizing.



Flight advantage abuse, Aerial spam, Precog, reactive evolution, Nanites subconsciously taking control of his actions without consent, Nanites making new weapons to counter, etc. I could go on with the issues on that end, even if he was to be vulnerable in those instances. Not disregarding Number Man's skill of course because I am rereading this again.


Which again goes back to my original question. Is this considered more passive hax or pure intelligence/skill? The former would be more to his benefit. Otherwise I'm still not sure what's threatening or stopping his Nanites from adapting and exploiting.

I'm reading a LOT of biological, pressure points, turning everything into a solvable equation and whatnot. Which is insane.

But I'm trying to find how this can counteract the reactive evolution and defense systems, more of less. Because again, WOG confirmation has Rex's Nanites making ANYTHING to counteract an issue his pre-existing powers cannot deal with.

With the only weaknesses of course likely being reality and law breaking stuff or just flat out far superior stats.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Rex FRA for now as I don't see The Number Man dealing with the dura neg

 

[Tllmbrg]

How
Number Man literally can wreck power armors with kitchen knives, **** over people with a single strike and math out all possible moves
The only in verse person that can outskill him directly is Contessa whose precog is just above his

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

How
Number Man literally can wreck power armors with kitchen knives, **** over people with a single strike and math out all possible moves
The only in verse person that can outskill him directly is Contessa whose precog is just above his

Can he outprecog other precog users?
Or can he keep evading people the same lvl of speed as him easily continuously?

 

[Tllmbrg]

Can he outprecog other precog users?
Or can he keep evading people the same lvl of speed as him easily continuously?

He can easily defeat other people with precog in verse yes

Btw I saw it above and didn't comment but people really downplay the corona feat as the implication was that it isn't that impressive because the surgeons just couldn't **** it up so it wasn't a low stress envoirment and I'm like "Aren't all brain surgeries like that?"
He still guided someone's hand so precisely to hit a part of the brain surgeons with all the time in the world can't consistently do

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

He can easily defeat other people with precog in verse yes

Scans on how he defeats them?

 

[Tllmbrg]

I don't feel like posting fights he had

 

[Popted2]

okay since this thread is still ongoing and there are other matches to be made, i'll give you two choice: coin flip or Incon

chose

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I don't feel like posting fights he had

Well can you show how he evades stuff via precog?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

okay since this thread is still ongoing and there are other matches to be made, i'll give you two choice: coin flip or Incon

chose

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Rex's skill level at its peak has him overpowering enemies with manipulation over space, time, matter, anti-matter, elements and so on with just his Builds alone.

He can fight on par with highly skilled competitors like Agent Six (See episode: Six minus Six) with the implication being that he only lost to him in CQC due to him wanting to prove his trust to him and letting his guard down.

He's skilled enough to overwhelm Ben Tennyson, even with aliens like Lodestar who has magnetism powers and DiamondHead, who can completely crush Warlord Vilgax in combat.

Rex's Nanites are also essentially a built-in security and hospital system for him. They can resist and aggressively chip away at any ailment to Rex's body.

Rex's Omega Shields included.

The main thing with Rex is that his Nanites are too adaptable and peculiar on top of his abilities. Overcompensating a lot of weak areas through their seemingly endless amounts of passiveness. Heck, we saw them create his shields without Rex's consent against a laser that destroys atoms and we also have WOG confirming his Nanites can counteract any ability that his pre-existing ones cannot deal with when under pressure.

Question, you from EU?

 

[Popted2]

sleeping is not a choice Monkey

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

sleeping is not a choice Monkey

Hmm?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Rex Salazar (Generator Rex): 7 (Jag, Greenshifter, DD, Popted2, the ultimate, TauanVictor, Monkey)

Isn't it already kinda finished tho?

 

[Greenshifter]

okay since this thread is still ongoing and there are other matches to be made, i'll give you two choice: coin flip or Incon

chose

That’s not how we do things here

 

[Popted2]

Isn't it already kinda finished tho?

that was before they argumented more for Number Man

 

[Popted2]

That’s not how we do things here

i was mostly joking,

 

[Greenshifter]

Number Man literally can wreck power armors with kitchen knives, **** over people with a single strike

Nanites say no.

math out all possible moves
The only in verse person that can outskill him directly is Contessa whose precog is just above his

Cool, I’m pretty sure Brainstorm can do similar stuff and he’d get wrecked by Rex who defeats people smarter than Brainstorm on a regular basis.

"Aren't all brain surgeries like that?"

They explicitly mentioned the Parahumans’ abilities potentially activating during surgery, so no not all brain surgeries are like that. Also Rex is literally more precise than that lol.

 

[Greenshifter]

Why wouldn't he be able to break the shield with calculated consecutive shots?

Bullets don’t really work like swords. Like bullets would probably deflect off the shield, which doesn’t really happen with swords. Also Six had the help of 2 other people to continuously attack Rex’s shield and he had to pierce it for a prolonged amount of time before it finally shattered.

 

[FRIMI]

well like I said earlier, it's for sure not incon, one of them definitely wins. My vote largely depends on if Number Man's sniper can penetrate Rex's shield

 

[Greenshifter]

Like even if the shield is compromised. Rex can still use his BFS-saw + Sky Slider to just intercept all incoming bullets or just burrow underground. Or he can even go full EVO mode at which point the bullets will probably just bounce off of him or do insignificant damage.

 

[FRIMI]

unless he gets lethally sniped right in the head first. The ability to ricochet sniper shots seems like it'd be pretty tough to deflect/intercept

 

[Greenshifter]

Due to speed equal and Rex's flight Number Man's options are pretty limited anyways. Heck Rex could just fly out of Number Man's range. Meanwhile Rex's range should be at least the distance that he punched Diamondhead across Manhattan due to his slam cannon also working via KE.

 

[Greenshifter]

Also now that I think about it. I don’t think that Number Man would be able to execute a prolonged attack like Six to break Rex’s shield due to his limited amount of ammo anyways.

 

[FRIMI]

that's a good point, how much ammo does number man typically carry?

 

[Jag50]

Either way, being able to predict danger instantaneously with limited information counts as precog and that means The Number Man can work around it

But I still don't see how this character's intelligence feats can override the defense and adaptability shenanigans of his Nanites, still.

Which is the main thing. This is why I asked if Number Man had hax.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Scans on how he defeats them?

It's literally in that one essay that @Wokistan posted in the first page near the end