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Elsa (Frozen) VS Noelle Holiday (Deltarune) (Grace)

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Mariogoods

Mariogoods

5,968
4,146
Rule:
1. Both are in their strongest and bloodlusted.
2. Speed is equalized.
3. SBA

Vote:
Elsa (Frozen): 0
Noelle Holiday: 8 (Originlima, FarerPurple, The_Almighty_Wholesome, FinePoint, Imaginym, Sonicflare9, JustANormalLemon, Psychomaster35)
Inconclusive: 0
 
Last edited:
Noelle's strongest attack snow grave does take some time to charge up and even deal damage. Can't Elsa just kill her before that's even prepared
 
Could Noelle use ice shock, sleep mist, or even her sealing before Elsa shoots an ice blast? Plus all of her attacks ignore conventional durability and aim straight for the soul.
 
The_Almighty_Wholesome said:
Could Noelle use ice shock, sleep mist, or even her sealing before Elsa shoots an ice blast? Plus all of her attacks ignore conventional durability and aim straight for the soul.
Click to expand...
Ice Shock she might do, but she might not use it without being told to do so. But willing to kill, so I guess.
Sleep Mist doesn't work on foes that aren't already tired.
The Sealing is how she sealed the Addison into the Freeze Ring. Which she only did after being told it was to get stronger & being told to "Get it" repeatedly by Kris/The SOUL/The Player.
 
Both of them are able to oneshot each other with their abilities, actually. Though, depending on how Elsa fights, Noelle would probably be able to graze her attacks until she gets enough TP to cast an IceShock.
 
Psychomaster35 said:
Both of them are able to oneshot each other with their abilities, actually. Though, depending on how Elsa fights, Noelle would probably be able to graze her attacks until she gets enough TP to cast an IceShock.
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Oh yeah, she needs to dodge.

& IIRC, Noelle is easily scared, & before getting far into SnowGrave, she's clumsy enough to trip when doing TakeCare X.
So without knowing how much TP she gets per Graze (Plus, she might be too scared to actively try to Graze instead of just dodging/getting as far away as possible.) she might get hit before she gets enough & realizes to cast IceShock, especially if she's more focused on non-violent methods like tiring Elsa out or healing herself.

Can she even Graze? IDK if Noelle's profile gives her The SOUL, which is what does the actual Grazing.
 
Imaginym said:
Can she even Graze? IDK if Noelle's profile gives her The SOUL, which is what does the actual Grazing.
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I mean, even after Kris gets KO’d and Noelle is still alive, she gets the SOUL, so yes.
Imaginym said:
Plus, she might be too scared to actively try to Graze instead of just dodging/getting as far away as possible.
Click to expand...
...that’s never happened before? True, she clumsily defends herself with her hands when defending against an enemy, but her being scared doesn’t really changes how she grazes. Rather, she grazes the same way as Kris and others would.
 
Psychomaster35 said:
I mean, even after Kris gets KO’d and Noelle is still alive, she gets the SOUL, so yes.
Click to expand...
She can still hear the SOUL's voice yes, & it tells her what to do, but Kris was present for that battle to begin with, & nearby. Not so here.
Psychomaster35 said:
...that’s never happened before? True, she clumsily defends herself with her hands when defending against an enemy, but her being scared doesn’t really changes how she grazes. Rather, she grazes the same way as Kris and others would.
Click to expand...
If Grazing IS her action, then why wouldn't it be influenced by her being clumsy?
I'd assume it's more likely the SOUL's action, not Noelle's. The SOUL tells her what to do by voice, seemingly not through direct control.
 
This literally isn’t even implied to be the SOUL’s action as it is contradicted by you being able to control Susie in Chapter 1 when she fights Lancer alone.
 
Psychomaster35 said:
This literally isn’t even implied to be the SOUL’s action as it is contradicted by you being able to control Susie in Chapter 1 when she fights Lancer alone.
Click to expand...
Toby Fox himself stated in a live stream that the reason we see the SOUL coming from the corner of the screen is it's coming from where Kris is.
That is the SOUL that is Kris's, not some SOUL of Susie's own.
1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void said:
we could just assume the Anomaly is controlling her actions via soul
Click to expand...
Then why have Kris verbally instruct her?
 
1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void said:
No.
Click to expand...
Okay I know I'm asked, but I'm pretty sure that's Incorrect.

For example, Rudy says:

  • Wasn't too long ago you were just the creepy kid next door.
  • Now you're the creepy kid right in front of me!
  • Hahahaha!!!

It's just Rudy, but he probably knows Kris well enough, probably similarly to Noelle, plus that he says it implies Kris had that reputation, even before being met.
 
Imaginym said:
Okay I know I'm asked, but I'm pretty sure that's Incorrect.

For example, Rudy says:

  • Wasn't too long ago you were just the creepy kid next door.
  • Now you're the creepy kid right in front of me!
  • Hahahaha!!!

It's just Rudy, but he probably knows Kris well enough, probably similarly to Noelle, plus that he says it implies Kris had that reputation, even before being met.
Click to expand...
But not creepy to the point where Noelle feels uncomfortable being around them I believe
 
Imaginym said:
Okay I know I'm asked, but I'm pretty sure that's Incorrect.

For example, Rudy says:

  • Wasn't too long ago you were just the creepy kid next door.
  • Now you're the creepy kid right in front of me!
  • Hahahaha!!!

It's just Rudy, but he probably knows Kris well enough, probably similarly to Noelle, plus that he says it implies Kris had that reputation, even before being met.
Click to expand...
he's mostly referred to as a mischievous individual mostly.
 
Meh. So the assumption is the SOUL came with Noelle, &... follows her characterization EXCEPT for the purposes of dodging to graze, but she still does that behaviour of her own volition?
 
So, Noelle actually don't need TP to use her spells. Because Susie used Rude Buster without even having TP.

And if you using 8-A Noelle that's means that she is using Snowgrave. (And she bloodlusted)
 
Originlima said:
So, Noelle actually don't need TP to use her spells. Because Susie used Rude Buster without even having TP.

And if you using 8-A Noelle that's means that she is using Snowgrave. (And she bloodlusted)
Click to expand...
And Snowgrave can be used VERY fast (actually 2 or 3 seconds)
 
Originlima said:
And Snowgrave can be used VERY fast (actually 2 or 3 seconds)
Click to expand...
"Very" fast is.... Questionable. It does have a long animation.

Not to mention, Noelle had to be told to use it repeatedly, denies that she knows it at all when told to use it, & after a single use of it, she said she didn't feel good & left to go home, & was later said to be resting & in no condition to help Queen, implying it takes a lot out of her.

So SnowGrave is kinda do or die for Noelle. (A little weird to kill an ice queen with ice, but eh.)
Also, Noelle can't cast SnowGrave without wearing the Thorn Ring, which constantly damages her until she's at a third of her max HP. (Typically that's 55.)
So she probably gets taken out by fewer hits than normal.
 
Imaginym said:
Also, Noelle can't cast SnowGrave without wearing the Thorn Ring, which constantly damages her until she's at a third of her max HP. (Typically that's 55.)
So she probably gets taken out by fewer hits than normal.
Click to expand...
Without Thorn Ring, it's just 200% TP.
While, characters can use spells without TP.
 
Sorry, but what exactly are the reasons above being used?
I feel like arguments weren't finished.
 
Noelle casting SnowGrave isn't even likely; When told to use it, repeatedly, she INSISTS she doesn't know it, so her casting it freely doesn't make sense.
& when she does cast it, she floats up, her eyes glowing white, plus there's the Thorn Ring's "Trance" Status Effect, so it's implied she wasn't self-aware when she did cast it.
AND she leaves after casting on SnowGrave on Berdly; Even if she is self-aware enough to learn she DOES know it it in the Berdly battle, you can't tell her to use SnowGrave & then backtrack onto the route to use it on a normal enemy.

So if Noelle denies knowing it, & doesn't seem self-aware when casting it, why would she be casting it freely contrary to its only other use, in the battle central to it?
IMHO, her casting it on a regular enemy like a normal spell is a kind of characterization conflict/gameplay-induced plot hole.
 
FinePoint said:
Isn't it a moot point because ice shock also kills?
Click to expand...
True. She'd probably resort to IceShock before SnowGrave, AFAIK.

But she seems like she'd go for Pacifistic methods before IceShock. Other than her somewhat confused reaction when Virovirokun explains to her about using Mercy to win by Sparing enemies, IDK why she'd IceShock before Pacifism; In-character, but willing to kill doesn't mean murder would be her first resort, right?
 
Imaginym said:
True. She'd probably resort to IceShock before SnowGrave, AFAIK.

But she seems like she'd go for Pacifistic methods before IceShock. Other than her somewhat confused reaction when Virovirokun explains to her about using Mercy to win by Sparing enemies, IDK why she'd IceShock before Pacifism; In-character, but willing to kill doesn't mean murder would be her first resort, right?
Click to expand...
No, because incap is a win condition.
So is BFR.
 
FinePoint said:
No, because incap is a win condition.
Click to expand...
So, she'd hope to Freeze Elsa solid? (Though, doesn't Deltarune treat freezing solid the same as murder?)
FinePoint said:
So is BFR.
Click to expand...
You mean her Sealing that she did to get the Freeze Ring? While I could believe she has an Empty Freeze Ring to seal someone into, she had to be pressured into doing that, & denied even doing so afterwards. IceShock seems plenty more likely than Noelle's Sealing.
 
Imaginym said:
So, she'd hope to Freeze Elsa solid? (Though, doesn't Deltarune treat freezing solid the same as murder?)
Click to expand...
No, doesn't she have a spell that pacifies tired enemies? I might be crazy.
Imaginym said:
You mean her Sealing that she did to get the Freeze Ring? While I could believe she has an Empty Freeze Ring to seal someone into, she had to be pressured into doing that, & denied even doing so afterwards. IceShock seems plenty more likely than Noelle's Sealing.
Click to expand...
I was just talking in general that if a chracter uses BFR more often in character, then SBA won't make them prefer murder.
 
FinePoint said:
No, doesn't she have a spell that pacifies tired enemies? I might be crazy.
Click to expand...
Oh. My bad. Sleep Mist. Would Elsa be tired early enough to ensure a victory & would Noelle be able to get Elsa in range of it?
FinePoint said:
I was just talking in general that if a chracter uses BFR more often in character, then SBA won't make them prefer murder.
Click to expand...
Yeah, true. I was just saying murder doesn't seem like Noelle's 1st choice, as opposed to Pacifistic methods.
 
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