Elminster vs. Tezzeret

[Moritzva]

Right. I argued that he could use etherium attacks to scramble Elm's brains, as seen when he used a trap to paralyze intruders via metal wire sliding directly into their brain.

Given his speed, AP, and prep time, does that seem plausible?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Elm resists mindhax, if that's what's being implied. Pretty damn well.

I'm not sure about 2-C healing, but I know it let him regen from an at minimum Low 2-C torturing him. Granted, torture could be holding back.

 

[Udlmaster]

It's most likely Low 2-C, as said Devil Prince was recently bumped out of his position and wanted to use the Silveflame to get back to said position or even higher.

When he found Elm, Elm was near death anyway, he'd just about got to Hell before dying and wasn't expecting to be captured (I don't think Hell was a good choice) and so Elm used the Silveflame to protect him, heal him and keep him alive.

It allowed Elm to survive his incredible torture (Apparently it made him weap, it was so bad) as well as the Prince probing his mind as well.

 

[Moritzva]

If it is 2-C, make a CRT as nothing close to that level is listed on his profile. If it is 2-C at all, this is a stomp. Although I have seen no evidence that it can revive him from being dead either way.

Also, your brain being destroyed isn't mind hax. I don't have mind hax just because I'm carrying a sledgehammer.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I doubt it is 2-C, was my point. I believe devil boy was probably holding back. What we do know is that the healing was so good that the Tier 2 wanted it.

Regarding your sledgehammer comment. It depends on the methodology boyo.

 

[Udlmaster]

Well, Mystra herself uses the Silverflame.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Not unreasonable to assume hers is a bit stronger.

 

[Udlmaster]

No, no, no, it's a kind of Magic, it's not an item, all Chosen of Mystra have the ability given to them,

"Once per hour, a Chosen of Mystra can unleash from within his or her body a beam of magical whitish flame known as silver fire (which is also used as a general name for the overall power invested in each of her Chosen by the goddess). This beam is 5 feet wide and can be made to extend as far as 70 feet if desired. No magical or physical barrier has been discovered that can stand up against it, and the beam inflicts tremendous damage on all beings struck by it. Any nonliving object touched by the beam is utterly destroyed. An individual also can choose to expel the silver fire in the shape of a cloud that fills a cone-shaped area 5 feet in diameter at its base, up to 70 feet long, and up to 70 feet across at its widest."

" This use of the silver fire is extremely rare, since Mystra considers it an emergency action only."

It should also be noted that silver fire is composed of pure Weave magic energy, thus the clashing of silver firewith pure Shadow Magic will cause the multiverse to unravel itself, tearing the fabric of the world, causing huge dimensional rifts between the planes. As has happened in Shadowdale in the Year of Wild Magic (1372 DR), when Elminster was fending off several invading Shadow Princes, who were actually shadow-mattered creatures. His silver fire did vaporize one of them, but also created a rift between Toril and the Nine Hells.

 

[Udlmaster]

OH BOI, LOOK AT WHAT I JUST FOUND!

"A portion of a Chosen's silver fire can be used to hold the knowledge of how to cast a particular spell within a Chosen's mind. While held in this way, these spells can be cast by silent force of will alone, without the need for verbal, somatic, or material components."

 

[Moritzva]

Cool, but can it revive the dead, and how strong is it? Because if this is true, make a CRT since 2-C healing that affects the dead makes this an absolute stomp.

 

[Udlmaster]

It flat out heals all Damage dealt to him physically and mentally, also, with the Silver Fire's ability to hold Magic without Verbal, Somantic or Material Components, this goes to Elm as Tezz's powernull doesn't work when it's without verbal or somantic components.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I meant her magic would be stronger.

Being that she's a god.

However, it does seem Elm can just think to cast wish.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Can't non-god characters only use wish once or twice without penalty?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I've never read that but

Only really need once

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Can we seriously change wish to causality manipulatoion on both elminster and orcus profiles?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Elminster yes, Orcus if it is unlocked.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Ask Kaltias, even though he's not an expert on the verse she has some knowledge and would probably be willing to help

 

[Mr. Bambu]

is Kalt a she, legit didn't expect that if so

EDIT: Zach fixed it, was genuinely confused kek

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

No he's a dude

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Bump.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Have we taken into account to even achieve 6-B levels Elminster needs like two months of prep?

Granted, certain planes of existence he has access to progress through time slower but still.

 

[Moritzva]

Fairly sure we have not. I did not know this.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah. It didn't even occur to me that Dargoo has it at two days.

If you look at the calcs for the spells that put him at 6-B, the prep time is something like over sixty days needed.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

59 Days for Ice Age (6-B)

18 Days for Global Warming (High 6-C)

 

[Moritzva]

Right, but lolwish is still the argument. A big argument of if Tezz, with two days, can prevent Elm from verbally casting Wish.

 

[Udlmaster]

To be fair, we wasn't even considering his AP anyway, we was considering Wish vs Tez.

 

[Moritzva]

Yea, it's kinda one-shot vs one-shot. Tezz can use his way higher AP and the fact that Etherium, which he can use as a power source and weapon, is everywhere...

Well, he can control it and just kill Elm, honestly. Elm couldn't survive Tezzeret doing that, and Tezz can't survive a Wish. Except Wish needs to be said, while Tezz just needs to think and command the metal.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I don't feel like giving Elm more prep changes the matchup much, considering this is primarily a hax-based matchup.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I realize this wasn't AP, just that Elm has no method of being 6-B in this match with current stuff. And... more prep time could shift things a lot considering D&D prep time.

 

[Moritzva]

So, should we continue debate? Because I still do believe Tezzeret can just AP blitz him, as it's a bit hard to talk while being murdered violently by someone who blasts you into pieces with every attack.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"AP doesn't matter"

"I believe Tezz AP blitzes"

hm.

 

[Moritzva]

I mean we believed it doesn't matter but we are comparing someone who's actually 6-B to someone who's... really not, not without massive prep time.

He could viably win on AP alone, just because of his massive AP advantage.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

On a more serious note. Assuming we take this to be the correct prep time, as in, 59 days minimum to allow Elminster any chance to actually be the tier he needs to be in this fight (since this is apparently still a thing that needs to be considered), the amount of things Elminster can achieve is quite literally anything. This includes thought based attacks that force a target to spew out all of their blood, for example. No, I'm not exagerating.

So my vote is still for Elm. Without prep time, all he needs to do is speak briefly and Tezz is gone. With prep time, this might be a stomp considering Elm can commit any number of atrocities. This is, of course, assuming we ignore the aforementioned 2-A help that Elm naturally has.

 

[Moritzva]

Yea, checked again. Country Level and possibly Multi-Solar System Level AP vs Small City+ Durability.

Yes, Tezz has an immense AP advantage, and he's on an island of Etherium so that can't hurt.

 

[Moritzva]

Also, yea 2 days of prep is enough to keep this fair. Too much more and this is an insane stomp.

With 2 days of prep time, I still believe Tezz has this. His spells are several kilometers in range, so he could easily snipe Elm before he can do a single thing. Since his speed is also higher, it would be incredibly easy for him to restrain and slice apart Elm using the very metal he's standing on before he can even talk.

Without prep time, I say Tezz decisively wins. Elm is extremely unlikely to lead with such a hefty Wish if he doesn't have to, since the repercussions are insane. Meanwhile, Tezz just kind of breathes on him and he dies. He only knows he has to use Wish with prep time.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"He only knows he has to use Wish with prep time."

except like

that's not true

coz wish is easy to get and he can spend tons of prep time just learning about tezz

and ask literal gods about that shit

so

 

[Moritzva]

In the end of the day, this is how it goes:

With two days of prep time, well, this battle is hard to determine. Tezz and Elm both have methods of precog, although Tezz precog via Clockworking is more consistent and reliable.

Elm has a lot of prep he can do, but Tezz can Power Null just about everything except Wish apparently- I disagree with the notion, but let's say the spell can't be countered or nulled. His enchantments and similar things can, without a doubt, and Tezz will prepare for the pesky ones.

From there, it's who strikes first. And I say Tezz strikes first. First, Tezz has enough range to hit Elm from starting distance with a majority of his spells. Starting the battle, he'll dispel a majority of what Elm has on him whilst also going to kill him instantly with sheer AP since Country > Small City.

So while it's easy to say Elm just mutters one word, they both kill each other with relatively few spells. Elm casts one wish, and Tezz casts one attack of just about any kind.

Except Tezz is faster, and Elm needs to say it.

Tezz does not need to say it.

This is why I vote Tezzeret.

 

[Moritzva]

Also, I literally said that with any amount of prep time, he'll lead with Wish. So I guess you agreed with me on that point?

 

[Udlmaster]

Elm uses Silver Fire.

He wins.

Silver Fire heals Elm and protects him from various hax and any physical assult on him.

Then Elm casts wish and wins.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's one possibility. Arguing AP in a hax fight tho is... a no go, really, just flat out. Elm resists Tezz' best stuff aside from flat out AP, and has his own hax to literally and instantly kill Tezz. Speaking briefly finishes this. Tezz might be faster, but he's also crossing a huge distance. So "muh speed" means very little when Elm can just speak at you.

So no offense, I consider you wrong. Keep your vote, but I don't see validity in arguing "I AP you when you can just talk at me and I can die".