Elden Ring Speed CRT

[Chariot190]

my brain melts at the fact that you keep saying the same thing, when it is irrelevant to what I posted originally

The site precedent is 11 km/s for summoned meteors. I'm leaving this godforsaken thread.

Summoned meteors =/= Meteors that get directly portaled from space. Might seem like semantics, but there's a difference.

We ain't talking Final Fantasy or Fire Emblem, something that has actual "summoned" meteors.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Summoned meteors =/= Meteors that get directly portaled from space. Might seem like semantics, but there's a difference.

We ain't talking Final Fantasy or Fire Emblem, something that has actual "summoned" meteors.

DUDE

WATCH THE CLIP

THAT'S LITERALLY HOW IT WORKS

THEY OPEN A HOLE INTO SPACE

AAAAAAAGH

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm currently under the impression, at this point, that this is intentional trolling. I genuinely refuse to believe that you two, in good faith, concocted this idea, looked at everything I've said, and said "mmm seems wrong". I cannot fathom that you'd do that.

 

[Chariot190]

DUDE

WATCH THE CLIP

THAT'S LITERALLY HOW IT WORKS

THEY OPEN A HOLE INTO SPACE

AAAAAAAGH

My dude, do you not realize I'm saying who gives a shit about the Bloodborne example, it's wrong, a false precedence, and just because something else is wrong, doesn't mean we should make this wrong too just because. Two wrongs don't make a right, ignoring it's not even a "site precedence" like you claim but rather just an accidental mistake that nobody really picked up on in the past. We can fix Bloodborne later.

 

[Chariot190]

I'm currently under the impression, at this point, that this is intentional trolling. I genuinely refuse to believe that you two, in good faith, concocted this idea, looked at everything I've said, and said "mmm seems wrong". I cannot fathom that you'd do that.

I mean, it literally is wrong Bambu, you're unironically arguing because something else is wrong we MUST treat this wrongly too. We aren't gonna do that, could you imagine if whenever something was wrong we had to mistakenly treat all other examples of it wrong as well? It'd be insane, no instead, like with most other times stuff like this happens, we fix it, not break it even further.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean, it literally is wrong Bambu, you're unironically arguing because something else is wrong we MUST treat this wrongly too. We aren't gonna do that, could you imagine if whenever something was wrong we had to mistakenly treat all other examples of it wrong as well? It'd be insane, no instead, like with most other times stuff like this happens, we fix it, not break it even further.

No. No I am not. I am pointing out a site precedent. I have even said I don't even agree with it. Y'all just actually refuse to read my posts as I am making them and continue to portray it, wrongly, in the worst faith possible. This is why I am forced to assume you are trolling, because the opposite end would require me to question your reading comprehension. Either you are refusing to read my words, or you cannot. It is only an option between those two.

You have continuously addressed the wrong point. I'd like to think you're getting there, as this is now about the precedent (although still falsely assuming my stance on said precedent). However, prior to my last response, you were still arguing some fever-dream born idea that Astel was a different situation than the Living Failures.

My purpose in this thread, initially, was pointing out a past ruling. Whether you want to fight to change the ruling, absolutely up to you, I DO NOT CARE. You have made it so I am more or less unwilling to ******* speak on these threads, because of the shitfest that is made. Message received, loud and bloody clear.

Christsake.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I will now hope, perhaps in vain, that I am understood, and I will speak on my personal thoughts.

You probably aren't getting 70km/s. This speed is associated with combining the speed of meteors with the speed of Earth's travel around the solar system, meaning it requires very specific conditions to be met. I will also add that 42km/s is technically the fastest meteors in the void, rather than the standard. That much is stated in your own pages:

The fastest move at about 42 km/s (94,000 mph) through space in the vicinity of Earth's orbit. This is escape velocity from the Sun, equal to the square root of two times Earth's speed, and is the upper speed limit of objects in the vicinity of Earth, unless they come from interstellar space. Earth travels at about 29.6 km/s (66,000 mph), so when meteoroids meet the atmosphere head-on (which only occurs when meteors are in a retrograde orbit such as the Eta Aquariids, which are associated with the retrograde Halley's Comet) the combined speed may reach about 71 km/s (160,000 mph) (see Specific energy#Astrodynamics).

11 km/s comes from the relative baseline speed of a meteor upon entering our own atmosphere, rather than being slowed by it. This, too, is stated in your own sources:

As they draw closer to the planet, they are accelerated to yet higher velocities by Earth’s gravitational field. The minimum velocity with which a meteoroid can enter the atmosphere is equal to Earth’s escape velocity of 11.2 km per second.

Therefore, technically, 11.2 km/s is still sped up due to the gravitational pull of the Earth. I've never really looked into it until now, nor had I planned to until pestered here to the ends of the Earth. Therefore, having read the sources, I am actually inclined to stick with 11 km/s. 42 km/s is peak while attracted to Earth's gravitational pull, while 71 km/s is that combined with the speed of the Earth itself. 11 km/s is a fine baseline.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Meteoroids can actually be slower than 11 km/s, but once they enter Earth's gravitational influence they have a minimum of 11 km/s. So it would be incorrect to imply that 42 km/s is the low-end of pre-ablation speed.

Ablation

Before entering the region of the Earth's gravitational influence, their velocities range from a few kilometres per second up to as high as 72 kilometres per second. As they approach the Earth, within a few Earth radii, they are accelerated to even higher velocities by the planet's gravitational field. As a consequence, the minimum velocity with which a meteoroid can enter the atmosphere is equal to the Earth's escape velocity of 11 kilometres per second.

Asteroids, meteoroids, meteors, meteorites, comets

What is the difference between asteroids, meteoroids, meteorites, meteors, meteor showers, fireballs, bolides and comets? Find out here!

www.sun.org

A meteor is the light that you can see when a small meteoroid enters the Earth’s atmosphere. This normally happens with speeds between 11 and 73 km/s and at altitudes of about 75-120 km.

---

So cloud-to-ground lightning strikes consistently occurs around Fulgurblooms, and the Honed Bolt Incantation summons lightning from above. What are their prospectives of being supporting evidence? Sekiro uses similar justification.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The fulgurbloom was actually brought up somewhere, couldn't tell you where, but the generally consensus was that it was too fast to scale to speed. The same probably goes for the Honed Bolt stuff, but not sure.

EDIT: To be clear, Sekiro's justification I believe has something to do with catching lightning. So even though it is tremendously fast on-screen in Sekiro, his interaction with it makes that point moot, whereas in Elden Ring there's nothing really. Maybe lightning-speed attacks with Honed Bolt?

 

[Qawsedf234]

The same probably goes for the Honed Bolt stuff, but not sure.

Same issue. It's a one frame attack once it goes off.

For the thread topic what Bambu said is right. We either stick with 11 km/s or we need to adjust both sources to match

 

[Chritin]

Meteoroids can actually be slower than 11 km/s, but once they enter Earth's gravitational influence they have a minimum of 11 km/s. So it would be incorrect to imply that 42 km/s is the low-end of pre-ablation speed.

Ablation

Before entering the region of the Earth's gravitational influence, their velocities range from a few kilometres per second up to as high as 72 kilometres per second. As they approach the Earth, within a few Earth radii, they are accelerated to even higher velocities by the planet's gravitational field. As a consequence, the minimum velocity with which a meteoroid can enter the atmosphere is equal to the Earth's escape velocity of 11 kilometres per second.

Asteroids, meteoroids, meteors, meteorites, comets

What is the difference between asteroids, meteoroids, meteorites, meteors, meteor showers, fireballs, bolides and comets? Find out here!

www.sun.org

A meteor is the light that you can see when a small meteoroid enters the Earth’s atmosphere. This normally happens with speeds between 11 and 73 km/s and at altitudes of about 75-120 km.

---

So cloud-to-ground lightning strikes consistently occurs around Fulgurblooms, and the Honed Bolt Incantation summons lightning from above. What are their prospectives of being supporting evidence? Sekiro uses similar justification.

While meteoroids can be slower, in vacuums it is much more common to have a significantly higher speed. Especially since they are already moving when they come through the portals. That is why I put them at 42-72 km/s

 

[Chritin]

Same issue. It's a one frame attack once it goes off.

For the thread topic what Bambu said is right. We either stick with 11 km/s or we need to adjust both sources to match

I'm saying we should adjust both sources to match. Bambu hasn't disproven what we've said mathematically, by in-game logic, or by real-world logic, so assuming that the only issue is a site precedent that should not apply to this example, both should be changed to match this.

Like I said though, it makes no sense to assume they immediately decelerated once coming through the portals whatsoever.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

I agree that catching lightning is a stronger evidence in Sekiro, but what I was referring to are the lightning strikes near the ending of the Fountainhead Palace area. One of the clips cited is Lightning Reversal, but the other two is 'dodging' in a similar way to how you can in Elden Ring.

Massively Hypersonic+ (Faster than before, can react to the Divine Dragon's attacks, which go much faster than lighting. Can react to Isshin's natural lightning and the lightning bolts in the Fountainhead Palace Grounds)

---

So until there is more content through DLC, I can see two paths to upgrade beyond High Hypersonic.

1- We can rely on the dragon lightning Incantations, specifically the ones that involves catching lightning from the sky in a way that is similar to what Genichiro does:

2- We can use the mid-end for the meteors, especially if it turns out that meteoroids on the low-end of speed are uncommon.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Speaking of the lightning stuff. Why don't we accept dodging the Draconic Tree Sentinel's lightning wave? That one isn't a hitscan at all like dodging his other lightning attacks

 

[Qawsedf234]

accept dodging the Draconic Tree Sentinel's lightning wave

Because it's not cloud to ground afaik. It spreads out from the ground doesn it?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Found footage of both lightning attack from Draconic Tree Sentinel:


I think Emirp is referring to the first attack. There is flickering on the ground to foreshadow the second attack, but that is something Fromsoftware often uses for cloud-to-ground lightnings in their games.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

While meteoroids can be slower, in vacuums it is much more common to have a significantly higher speed. Especially since they are already moving when they come through the portals. That is why I put them at 42-72 km/s

Again, you should read your source.

72 km/s requires the meteor to be sped up by the gravitational force of Earth to the point that the speed of the Earth is added to the speed of the fastest meteors in the void (42 km/s). So, as it turns out, our 11 km/s baseline speed is based on legitimate facts. Learn something new every day.

 

[Armorchompy]

If the attack is repeated indefinitely by the boss wouldn't some of the meteors come out at a higher end of the speed possible within a void (which as I understand is 42 km/s)?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm not certain why that would be the case? Also I think the proper word would be "repeatedly", each usage of the attack is really only a few seconds. Here's a clip.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm not certain why that would be the case? Also I think the proper word would be "repeatedly", each usage of the attack is really only a few seconds. Here's a clip.

I mean, the boss can do it over and over, right? Eventually meteors that are significantly faster than average and closer to the higher end of speed will come out.

 

[Chritin]

Again, you should read your source.

72 km/s requires the meteor to be sped up by the gravitational force of Earth to the point that the speed of the Earth is added to the speed of the fastest meteors in the void (42 km/s). So, as it turns out, our 11 km/s baseline speed is based on legitimate facts. Learn something new every day.

1. That is only stated in one of the articles and nowhere else. Even still it doesn't say that is the only way meteoroids speed up considering other celestial objects exist in the universe. Meteoroids can be accelerated by the gravitational forces of other objects as well.

Also, basically what you just said is that 72 km/s is basically the 42 km/s speed with additional speed from gravitational forces, which at most means that 42 km/s is more accurate to the speed of the meteoroids. Like I said though, it doesn't disprove the fact that meteoroids in voids are also accelerated by gravitational forces.

 

[Chritin]

If the attack is repeated indefinitely by the boss wouldn't some of the meteors come out at a higher end of the speed possible within a void (which as I understand is 42 km/s)?

I'm not certain why that would be the case? Also I think the proper word would be "repeatedly", each usage of the attack is really only a few seconds. Here's a clip.

While the attack in the boss fight isn't indefinite, the Meteorites of Astel spell is.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Found footage of both lightning attack from Draconic Tree Sentinel:


I think Emirp is referring to the first attack. There is flickering on the ground to foreshadow the second attack, but that is something Fromsoftware often uses for cloud-to-ground lightnings in their games.

No. I'm talking about the one where he literally scoops lightning from the ground and throws a wave of lightning at you. Why would that lightning be any different from any of other Draconic Tree Sentinel attacks?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

While the attack in the boss fight isn't indefinite, the Meteorites of Astel spell is.

I mean. That, also, is not true. The spell has a set end point, the moment you run out of mana. If you end it before then, it doesn't matter.

1. That is only stated in one of the articles and nowhere else. Even still it doesn't say that is the only way meteoroids speed up considering other celestial objects exist in the universe. Meteoroids can be accelerated by the gravitational forces of other objects as well.

Your sources, man. Also it isn't contradicted by any of the others, so per your own sources, that's what we're dealing with, in addition to previously cited site standards. It does imply meteors speed up based on proximity to significant gravity pulls, such as a celestial object.

Also, basically what you just said is that 72 km/s is basically the 42 km/s speed with additional speed from gravitational forces, which at most means that 42 km/s is more accurate to the speed of the meteoroids. Like I said though, it doesn't disprove the fact that meteoroids in voids are also accelerated by gravitational forces.

No, again, 42 km/s is the maximum speed of a meteor, not a baseline or average.

I mean, the boss can do it over and over, right? Eventually meteors that are significantly faster than average and closer to the higher end of speed will come out.

Eh. Obviously there would be some variation but I dislike assuming that variation would let loose a maximum speed meteor, when all of them are relatively uniform in their speed. There isn't a meteor randomly coming out that's 4x the speed of the others. So there genuinely isn't a good reason to assume maximum meteor speed in this instance, I think.

 

[Chritin]

I mean. That, also, is not true. The spell has a set end point, the moment you run out of mana. If you end it before then, it doesn't matter.

Looks like the video I saw before used the no fp flask, my mistake.

Your sources, man. Also it isn't contradicted by any of the others, so per your own sources, that's what we're dealing with, in addition to previously cited site standards. It does imply meteors speed up based on proximity to significant gravity pulls, such as a celestial object.

One source mentioned the fact that they can be sped up by the gravitational forces of earth, which isn't what I'm arguing against. I'm saying that you arguing the fact that the source contradicts the fact that meteors in voids are that speed is wrong.

No, again, 42 km/s is the maximum speed of a meteor, not a baseline or average.

We. Are. Not. Talking. About. Meteors. Meteors are what Meteoroids become when they fall through the atmosphere. They also have a slower speed. Meteoroids are objects that are in space. The average speed of Meteors is 11 km/s (which goes for any object that has been in PROLONGED FREE FALL in an atmosphere), while Meteoroids move from 42-72 km/s. So in that case, you may be right that the maximum speed of METEORS is 42 km/s, and the maximum speed of METEOROIDS are much faster. I'm not arguing if Meteors are faster or slower, because I'm not talking about Meteors.

Eh. Obviously there would be some variation but I dislike assuming that variation would let loose a maximum speed meteor, when all of them are relatively uniform in their speed. There isn't a meteor randomly coming out that's 4x the speed of the others. So there genuinely isn't a good reason to assume maximum meteor speed in this instance, I think.

Unless... you know... they are all max speed... Either way, 42 km/s, and 72 km/s are both MHS, so it doesn't make too much of a difference when it comes down to it. Hell if it were me I'd just say "these meteors are in this range" rather than picking which value is better.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

One source mentioned the fact that they can be sped up by the gravitational forces of earth, which isn't what I'm arguing against. I'm saying that you arguing the fact that the source contradicts the fact that meteors in voids are that speed is wrong.

42 km/s can be achieved, I think, the source at least doesn't put that entirely to rest. I'm just saying that is listed as the maximum speed even with attraction to celestial objects.

We. Are. Not. Talking. About. Meteors. Meteors are what Meteoroids become when they fall through the atmosphere. They also have a slower speed. Meteoroids are objects that are in space. The average speed of Meteors is 11 km/s (which goes for any object that has been in PROLONGED FREE FALL in an atmosphere), while Meteoroids move from 42-72 km/s. So in that case, you may be right that the maximum speed of METEORS is 42 km/s, and the maximum speed of METEOROIDS are much faster. I'm not arguing if Meteors are faster or slower, because I'm not talking about Meteors.

They become meteors upon entering the atmosphere, yeah. I don't understand why you're getting caught up on the semantics of this point when objectively Astel's stuff is meteors, even if that has zero bearing on the discussion lol. You linked sources for METEOROIDS and it lists the speed of METEOROIDS as 11 km/s prior to entering the atmosphere. Read your sources, all of the shit I'm referencing is for METEOROIDS, I'm using the term METEORS because even though they would be going METEOROID speed, they are in the atmosphere, making the correct term METEORS. Ffs.

Unless... you know... they are all max speed... Either way, 42 km/s, and 72 km/s are both MHS, so it doesn't make too much of a difference when it comes down to it. Hell if it were me I'd just say "these meteors are in this range" rather than picking which value is better.

Which would be a truly godawful assumption to make. 42 km/s isn't good, 72 km/s certainly isn't good. 11 km/s will do. Also, you said METEORS rather than METEOROIDS. Just to catch you up on that, I'm told we're talking about METEOROIDS and not METEORS. Make of that what you will.

 

[Chritin]

42 km/s can be achieved, I think, the source at least doesn't put that entirely to rest. I'm just saying that is listed as the maximum speed even with attraction to celestial objects.

The Wikipedia article (the one that lists them as 42 km/s) talks about Meteoroids in our solar system specifically by the way, not general meteoroids in voids. Considering the fact that numerous other articles beyond the Wikipedia one day otherwise, including a study from NASA that I'm pretty sure chariot saw before, it is safe to say that it isn't a direct cap on their speed, unlike 71-72km/s.

They become meteors upon entering the atmosphere, yeah. I don't understand why you're getting caught up on the semantics of this point when objectively Astel's stuff is meteors, even if that has zero bearing on the discussion lol. You linked sources for METEOROIDS and it lists the speed of METEOROIDS as 11 km/s prior to entering the atmosphere. Read your sources, all of the shit I'm referencing is for METEOROIDS, I'm using the term METEORS because even though they would be going METEOROID speed, they are in the atmosphere, making the correct term METEORS. Ffs.

The whole reason I made that distinction is that Meteors and Meteoroids have consistently different speeds on average. Meteors are around 11 km/s to 42 km/s. Meteoroids are around 42 km/s on average up to 71 km/s. Hell, think about it. Meteors which are just Meteoroids being slowed in the atmosphere have a maximum speed of 42 km/s because they were meteoroids moving at that average speed. Even though there may be meteoroids moving 11 km/s, why do you insist on using a low ball for a completely different concept when you could just use the average of 42 km/s for meteoroids.

Also, I use the term Meteoroids when discussing what Astel uses to differentiate them from our standard concept of Meteors. Plus like I said, Meteors are meteoroids that are being slowed down in the atmosphere for a prolonged time while Astels Meteors are not being slowed down for a prolonged time. Still, it is primarily just for distinction.

Which would be a truly godawful assumption to make. 42 km/s isn't good, 72 km/s certainly isn't good. 11 km/s will do. Also, you said METEORS rather than METEOROIDS. Just to catch you up on that, I'm told we're talking about METEOROIDS and not METEORS. Make of that what you will.

Like I said before, no need to be rude. I can see why saying a range isn't good, but as I said, meteors and meteoroids have their own averages. Even though Astels meteoroids by the technicality of being in the atmosphere for a short time can be considered "meteors", they don't change speed immediately nor are in the atmosphere long enough to decelerate.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The Wikipedia article (the one that lists them as 42 km/s) talks about Meteoroids in our solar system specifically by the way, not general meteoroids in voids. Considering the fact that numerous other articles beyond the Wikipedia one day otherwise, including a study from NASA that I'm pretty sure chariot saw before, it is safe to say that it isn't a direct cap on their speed, unlike 71-72km/s.

Link me the study from NASA, then. You probably should have just linked the relevant thing in the OP, rather than linking sources contradictory to your point.

The whole reason I made that distinction is that Meteors and Meteoroids have consistently different speeds on average. Meteors are around 11 km/s to 42 km/s. Meteoroids are around 42 km/s on average up to 71 km/s. Hell, think about it. Meteors which are just Meteoroids being slowed in the atmosphere have a maximum speed of 42 km/s because they were meteoroids moving at that average speed. Even though there may be meteoroids moving 11 km/s, why do you insist on using a low ball for a completely different concept when you could just use the average of 42 km/s for meteoroids.

Also, I use the term Meteoroids when discussing what Astel uses to differentiate them from our standard concept of Meteors. Plus like I said, Meteors are meteoroids that are being slowed down in the atmosphere for a prolonged time while Astels Meteors are not being slowed down for a prolonged time. Still, it is primarily just for distinction.

Again, your own sources disagree with you on this. Meteoroids have a baseline speed of 11 km/s to enter our atmosphere, thus becoming meteors. I insist on the baseline speed because using the maximum speed is stupid. The average speed of a meteoroid is not 42 km/s, everything you have cited disproves this.

I don't care why you're arguing semantics, it's a dumb point.

Like I said before, no need to be rude. I can see why saying a range isn't good, but as I said, meteors and meteoroids have their own averages. Even though Astels meteoroids by the technicality of being in the atmosphere for a short time can be considered "meteors", they don't change speed immediately nor are in the atmosphere long enough to decelerate.

You are making things up, though. Like objectively you're inventing words in your sources that do not exist. You, for some reason, have read the same bit as me (the bit that refers to the maximum speed of meteoroids as 42 km/s) and are saying that's the average. Your sole arguing point on this is arguing that because I used the term meteors, clearly the things have different speeds, totally ignoring the fact that the page this tidbit comes from is titled "Meteoroids". Pull it together, man. They aren't decelerating in the atmosphere, even 11 km/s assumes they have been sped up by gravitational pull accelerating them. It's agitating to repeat yourself, so please, read my words and those of your sources.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Let me spell it out, for all of you. I will exclusively quote the sources provided by the OP. They are objectively incorrect, as are those kudos-ing them.

Meteor

A meteor is a streak of light in the sky caused by a meteoroid passing through Earth's atmosphere.

education.nationalgeographic.org

About METEORS and not METEOROIDS, but hey, what do I know

The fastest meteors travel at speeds of 71 kilometers (44 miles) per second.

• Meteors, not meteoroids
• Fastest, not average
• This article doesn't help us much because, despite the OP intending to speak about METEOROIDS, it is about METEORS.

Moving on.

Meteor and meteoroid - Space Rocks, Fireballs, Trails

Meteor and meteoroid - Space Rocks, Fireballs, Trails: On any clear night beyond the bright lights of cities, one can see with the naked eye several meteors per hour. Meteors can last for a small fraction of a second up to several seconds. Quite often, as the glowing meteoroid streaks through...

www.britannica.com

ALSO about METEORS and not METEOROIDS.

As meteoroids are traveling in interplanetary space near Earth, their velocities relative to Earth’s range from a few kilometres per second up to as high as 72 km per second. As they draw closer to the planet, they are accelerated to yet higher velocities by Earth’s gravitational field. The minimum velocity with which a meteoroid can enter the atmosphere is equal to Earth’s escape velocity of 11.2 km per second.

• This bit is about meteoroids!
• Meteoroids actually accelerate when near planetary bodies, rather than slow down. So being in a true void would most likely render them slower if anything at all.
• Though this is unclear, the actual minimum is "a few kilometers per hour" according to this source, and 11 km/s is technically the speed needed to breach into the atmosphere on its own. However, 11 km/s is still our site standard and I think it's fine in the void of a better number to use.

Meteoroids travel around the Sun in a variety of orbits and at various velocities. The fastest move at about 42 km/s (94,000 mph) through space in the vicinity of Earth's orbit. This is escape velocity from the Sun, equal to the square root of two times Earth's speed, and is the upper speed limit of objects in the vicinity of Earth, unless they come from interstellar space. Earth travels at about 29.6 km/s (66,000 mph), so when meteoroids meet the atmosphere head-on (which only occurs when meteors are in a retrograde orbit such as the Eta Aquariids, which are associated with the retrograde Halley's Comet) the combined speed may reach about 71 km/s (160,000 mph) (see Specific energy#Astrodynamics). Meteoroids moving through Earth's orbital space average about 20 km/s (45,000 mph).[19]

• The fastest meteoroids are 42 km/s, even this is somewhat affected by planetary bodies and their gravitational pulls
• 71 km/s is their speed in addition to the speed of Earth, and only occurs when they are moving straight towards Earth, as then Earth is moving in the opposite direction, giving it an effective speed of 71 km/s.
• Average meteoroids affected by Earth's gravitational pull are 20 km/s, though that would not apply if these are sucked from empty voids of space.

Based on all of this, I have no idea how you can advocate for the attack being assumed to be maximum. We have never assumed the maximum possible value for anything. Mountains? 609 meters tall, baseline. Nukes? Never assume they're all the Tsar Bomba. Assuming 42 km/s would require us to be, as someone once said, disingenuous.

 

[Chritin]

Link me the study from NASA, then. You probably should have just linked the relevant thing in the OP, rather than linking sources contradictory to your point.


Again, your own sources disagree with you on this. Meteoroids have a baseline speed of 11 km/s to enter our atmosphere, thus becoming meteors. I insist on the baseline speed because using the maximum speed is stupid. The average speed of a meteoroid is not 42 km/s, everything you have cited disproves this.

I don't care why you're arguing semantics, it's a dumb point.


You are making things up, though. Like objectively you're inventing words in your sources that do not exist. You, for some reason, have read the same bit as me (the bit that refers to the maximum speed of meteoroids as 42 km/s) and are saying that's the average. Your sole arguing point on this is arguing that because I used the term meteors, clearly the things have different speeds, totally ignoring the fact that the page this tidbit comes from is titled "Meteoroids". Pull it together, man. They aren't decelerating in the atmosphere, even 11 km/s assumes they have been sped up by gravitational pull accelerating them. It's agitating to repeat yourself, so please, read my words and those of your sources.

Chariot found it, not me, so I have no clue where it is. The main point was that MULTIPLE SOURCES say otherwise.

Why are you telling me I am making things up when you are claiming that they have a baseline speed of 11 km/s? I'm telling you they have an average of 42 km/s they all say they move in the range of 42 km/s to 71-72 at the fastest. The only one that doesn't is the Wikipedia article, which is talking about Meteors, which is the whole reason I got into semantics on it. I'm also arguing semantics because this entire time you have tried to apply two different concepts to the same speed.

At this point though dude, do you just wanna call a vote from everyone? If you think we are repeating the same thing (which we both aren't but whatever), let's just get some other opinions and decide so we can move on.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Chariot found it, not me, so I have no clue where it is. The main point was that MULTIPLE SOURCES say otherwise.

Multiple sources that you both failed to link here. Fascinatin' we're just now hearing about these.

Why are you telling me I am making things up when you are claiming that they have a baseline speed of 11 km/s? I'm telling you they have an average of 42 km/s they all say they move in the range of 42 km/s to 71-72 at the fastest. The only one that doesn't is the Wikipedia article, which is talking about Meteors, which is the whole reason I got into semantics on it. I'm also arguing semantics because this entire time you have tried to apply two different concepts to the same speed.

Because that is what the sources you have linked, state. You are literally making shit up, read my last post. 42 km/s is the maximum, 71 km/s is factoring in the speed of the planet assuming they collide with the planet head-on. 11 km/s is the baseline.

At this point though dude, do you just wanna call a vote from everyone? If you think we are repeating the same thing (which we both aren't but whatever), let's just get some other opinions and decide so we can move on.

You can't vote to pass through something that's wrong lmao. You can't just pretend you are right, this isn't even a matter of opinion. You are factually just wrong.

 

[Chritin]

@Emirp sumitpo @Armorchompy You two are the only mods I have seen on here besides Bambu, can you three vote on this? I'd ask everyone else but I assume the CR decision can only be confirmed by mods. Besides the mods though, literally everyone except Bambu agrees on this scaling of 42-72km/s, if that means anything

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Nah.

You are objectively wrong. There is no vote. It isn't the same as Radahn, where it was interpretation and required a consensus. Either get me these mystical sources that prove all of your other sources wrong, or you aren't getting 42 km/s speed for the spell. That is the way it is.

Now, I do think discussion could be had for the lightning- but that should be its own thread.

@Chritin and @Chariot190 Link me your NASA pages that disagree with every other source, or don't. Until then, the thread is done.

 

[Chritin]

Nah.

You are objectively wrong. There is no vote. It isn't the same as Radahn, where it was interpretation and required a consensus. Either get me these mystical sources that prove all of your other sources wrong, or you aren't getting 42 km/s speed for the spell. That is the way it is.

Now, I do think discussion could be had for the lightning- but that should be its own thread.

@Chritin and @Chariot190 Link me your NASA pages that disagree with every other source, or don't. Until then, the thread is done.

Why do you get to decide? Why are you denying others to interpret what you or I have said and determine who's information is more accurate? Better question, why do you get to decide when this is over? I'm done talking because I thought you three could decide since at this point my brain is melted, so don't have a fit over the fact I bothered to ask other people to interpret the discussion we have had, whether I am right or not.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Why do you get to decide? Why are you denying others to interpret what you or I have said and determine who's information is more accurate? Better question, why do you get to decide when this is over? I'm done talking because I thought you three could decide since at this point my brain is melted, so don't have a fit over the fact I bothered to ask other people to interpret the discussion we have had, whether I am right or not.

My man, it isn't me deciding. It is the physical laws of the universe that disagree with you. There is no interpretation. The information provided in the OP objectively goes against everything you have said. I find it ironic that I was criticized as disingenuous upon entering the thread when you are, right here, right now, lying. There is nothing to vote on. Barring a more reliable source, the facts do not line up with your interpretation.

Now, I do think there is something to be said about using the average speed. The actual average, not the concocted "42 km/s average". 20 km/s is the average speed for a meteor near a celestial body such as Earth, I think changing site standard to that would make a lot of sense. I might look into doing that.

Message me the NASA proof you mentioned earlier if you like. @ShadowWhoWalks please do feel free to make a thread about the various kinds of lightning, discussion may be merited there.