Usability of 4-A Elden Ring profiles

[DarkGrath]

After reading through all of this, I'll restate my opinion on this matter.

I don't think alternative explanations for what occurs in the Elden Beast fight are irrelevant or inherently invalid. That's why I do not defend 4-A as a definitive tier. There's enough room for doubt that it would not be reasonable, rational, or sincere to treat it as though we have everything about it figured out.

However, with the limited information on hand, it's evident to me that considering it a 4-A dimension-creation feat from the Elden Beast is the most reasonable theory. This is the explanation that we reach when we take what information we have at face-value as much as possible, and the alternative explanations require much larger leaps in logic. This is why I don't think it's fair to toss out 4-A entirely.

Hence why I have, and still do, defend giving "possibly 4-A" to the Elden Beast and relevant scaling characters. We have the "possibly" rating for circumstances like this in the first place, after all. We tend to give it for reasonable yet not conclusive explanations.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody who are helping out here. I also hope that you will recover soon DarkGrath.

 

[DarkGrath]

After reading through all of this, I'll restate my opinion on this matter.

I don't think alternative explanations for what occurs in the Elden Beast fight are irrelevant or inherently invalid. That's why I do not defend 4-A as a definitive tier. There's enough room for doubt that it would not be reasonable, rational, or sincere to treat it as though we have everything about it figured out.

However, with the limited information on hand, it's evident to me that considering it a 4-A dimension-creation feat from the Elden Beast is the most reasonable theory. This is the explanation that we reach when we take what information we have at face-value as much as possible, and the alternative explanations require much larger leaps in logic. This is why I don't think it's fair to toss out 4-A entirely.

Hence why I have, and still do, defend giving "possibly 4-A" to the Elden Beast and relevant scaling characters. We have the "possibly" rating for circumstances like this in the first place, after all. We tend to give it for reasonable yet not conclusive explanations.

There was a point I meant to add to this comment that slipped my mind when I first wrote it. I considered just editing it to add my point on, but I thought it'd be more appropriate to make a separate post for it.

The explanation that the night sky depicted in the Elden Beast's dimension is not actually a night sky but just "a bunch of lights in the sky of indeterminate size" doesn't actually work. At least, not on its own.

Looking at the details of the skybox (which you can find in pretty much any footage or screenshots of the fight), you can easily see that there's far more detail to it than simply white lights against a black backdrop. There are also distinct, cloud-like patterns of light dispersion, where the sky looks "polluted" and faintly lights up in patches around and in-between the stars as well. This is characteristic of nebulae, low-density clouds of dust and particles spanning upwards of millions of light years across, and it's what gives a clear night sky that distinct "night sky" look that you don't get from simply putting white dots on a black background.

Beyond the point that, to be frank, the sky in the Elden Beast arena was very clearly intentionally designed to look like a night sky, this opens up other problems for the alternative explanation. If the sky was just a bunch of white orbs of indeterminate size far up in the sky, what's causing the appearance of nebulae? You don't get that kind of light dispersion when you just suspend a light a few metres in the air and wave some dust in front of it. This, combined with all the other factors that have to be accounted for, makes me think that waving away the feat by anything along the lines of "it's not a night sky, it's something else that just looks like one" requires far more arbitrary assumptions and contrivances than just taking the information at face-value.

 

[DarkGrath]

Bump?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean.

The vote remains the same. At least, nobody has voiced changing their opinion. So the last thing stands, either we take current voting as it is or try to get more staff opinion.

 

[Qawsedf234]

We can recount I guess and just ask the staff who commented to comment again.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Okay so we basically just have two choices

• At least 7-A, possibly High 4-C
• At least 7-A, possibly 4-A

Eh, the controlling the stars still seems kinda wack.

Emirp has seemingly gone back on his idea of using some three tier ratings.

So if anyone has commented if you could re-comment regarding this topic regarding your vote then we can get this sorted out.

 

[RH0904]

Three tier ratings? i suggested that or the feat in question because the elden beast looks strangely like a supercluster in a elden ring thread a while ago. i should note though that such evidence is tenous.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Looking back on what Darkgrath said, Possibly 4-A is.... Fine I think.

I'd either go with At least 7-A, possibly 4-A.

Adding ", possibly High 4-C" via upscaling from Radahn's tier is a bit pointless as that would probably just be part of the "possibly 4-A" tier.

I'm still against using "commanding the stars" as I don't see anything that suggests it being tier 4

 

[Qawsedf234]

Adding ", possibly High 4-C" via upscaling from Radahn's tier is a bit pointless as that would probably just be part of the "possibly 4-A" tier

Yeah. The High 4-C option is just Radahn upscaling without the Elden Ring stuff. Which would be covered by the 4-A rating.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

The Elden Beast's supposed dimension has no lore connections (at least, that anybody has come forward with- I sure as **** haven't found anything). The Elden Beast also has celestial object-themed attacks- things that, had they been on the ceiling, would also be considered stars. Nebulae. You know the ones I'm talking about. But we know, objectively, that they're smaller than the PC. I just don't understand why people consider that and then, for no reason, assume the other lights are possibly 4-C in size, solely because they're up on the ceiling and not being thrown at the player.

So yeah, still hard against 4-A based on haha tiny lights up thar

I don't like this line of thinking because it's rather shortsighted.

Just because we don't have lore doesn't mean we can't make logical assumptions. Elden Beast came from the stars, the cosmos itself. It's supposed to represent the cosmos and uses attacks that match that aesthetic and theming. Why is it so hard to believe something that's supposed to be the vassal of an entity that created a Ring that governs laws and entire bodies of stars you view as acceptable apparently, as well as has it's entire theming based around the cosmos and is also supposed to be the God tier, suddenly blasphemous and reaching? Literally only one person would scale to it also.

I'd also like to add that the fact other Erdtrees are seen in this realm prove this was done via it's power given all the lore implications there. Would this also not be physical proof of it governing the stars, since the Ring IS the Beast?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Literally only one person would scale to it also.

The proposal wouldn't include one person. It'd be Marika/Radagon, Godfrey, Maliketh and the Tarnished.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I guess those make sense. What I really meant is that only one person upscales. The rest of those would downscale since Godfrey and Maliketh are debatably around Marika/Radagon's level and Marika lost to the EB presumably.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Marika lost to the EB presumably.

Yeah. She shattered the ER and the EB crucified her.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Eh, them scaling to the EB is kinda wack since the EB is established to be the strongest character in the Lands Between, to the point even Gideon is scared shirtless of the Elden Beast.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Eh, them scaling to the EB is kinda wack since the EB is established to be the strongest character in the Lands Between

They downscale but still would be in that AP range. It doesn't make sense otherwise as Godfrey and Radagon both are fight right before it and Maliketh has backing that he's beyond the Demigods.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

They downscale but still would be in that AP range. It doesn't make sense otherwise as Godfrey and Radagon both are fight right before it and Maliketh has backing that he's beyond the Demigods.

And as for Gideon?

 

[Qawsedf234]

And as for Gideon?

From what I've seen most users here say that his dialogue regarding regarding Tarnished indicates he's not powerful enough to fight any God and couldn't battle Godfrey. So he wouldn't scale. But idk.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

From what I've seen most users here say that his dialogue regarding regarding Tarnished indicates he's not powerful enough to fight any God and couldn't battle Godfrey. So he wouldn't scale. But idk.

So I guess he keeps his current rating

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bump I guess.

Though if no one wants to vote, then it's a 3-2 favor for "At least 7-A, possibly 4-A" with Emrip switching. Which can be applied to the Elden Beast and the handful that are agreed to scale scale it.

 

[RH0904]

Bump.

 

[Planck69]

Reading through everything, I think 7-A possibly 4-A should work.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Bump.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Bump.

This thread was finished ages ago.