Elden Ring Profiles

[M3X_2.0]

There is also this item:

A talisman engraved with a scene from a heroic tale.
Raises strength.

The mightiest hero of the demigods confronted the falling stars alone—and thus did he crush them, his conquest sealing the very fate of the stars.

Starscourge Heirloom | Elden Ring Wiki

Elden Ring Starscourge Heirloom Guide: Where to find Starscourge Heirloom, effects, how to use it, best combinations, tips and tricks for this Medallion.

eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com

Nah ^

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Nah ^

Why are you saying nah to yourself?

 

[M3X_2.0]

I'm talking with the dude above my reply and quoting what I posted on the last pahe about Radahn's feat.

 

[Dienomite22]

Nah ^

yes

"Well, well... Seluvis in not a name I ever wanted to hear again...But, fine. If it will help you, my apprentice, I offer my knowledge. The stars alter the fate of the Carian royal family. And the fate of your mistress, Ranni. But long ago, General Radahn challenged the swirling constellations, and in a crushing victory, arrested their cycles. Now, he is the force that repulses the stars. If General Radahn were to die, the stars would resume their movement. And so, too, would Ranni's destiny."

But it seriously depends on translations. Though it doesnt make sense if all the descriptions related to Astrologers and Carian magicians and their ties to stars and reading fate by viewing the stars to actually mean they are talking about meteors, especially when the servants of Carian royals have drawings of stars on their gowns and hats showing they know what stars actually are.
Something is going on with the translations within this game. Or Radahn stopped the orbit of everything in space besides the Earth but thats only possible if every single thing in the game is accurately translated.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I've mentioned this before, so I'll say it again here:

In this instance, I don't actually know whether the Japanese translations, be they finnicky or not, would actually take priority from the English ones. From what I understand, GRRM wrote the overall mythos for the game and then Miyazaki went to town on it.

Whether this would lead to favoring Tier 4 or not, don't really know, I still think Tier 4 stuff requires too many gaps to be left unanswered. But uh... yeah. The devs may well have worked from English to Japanese, meaning English could very likely be the more accurate language.

 

[Dienomite22]

I've mentioned this before, so I'll say it again here:

In this instance, I don't actually know whether the Japanese translations, be they finnicky or not, would actually take priority from the English ones. From what I understand, GRRM wrote the overall mythos for the game and then Miyazaki went to town on it.

Whether this would lead to favoring Tier 4 or not, don't really know, I still think Tier 4 stuff requires too many gaps to be left unanswered. But uh... yeah. The devs may well have worked from English to Japanese, meaning English could very likely be the more accurate language.

Miyazaki expanded on the overall mythos, I doubt George had a hand in things like dialogue or most of the descriptions of everything. I think he just made the all the important beings and setting but I got to check when I get home which will be a while. If you go to the Archive website and search up elden ring in the text/book section their is a famatsu book features interviews with miyazaki talking about George’s involvement.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Miyazaki expanded on the overall mythos, I doubt George had a hand in things like dialogue or most of the descriptions of everything. I think he just made the all the important beings and setting but I got to check when I get home which will be a while. If you go to the Archive website and search up elden ring in the text/book section their is a famatsu book features interviews with miyazaki talking about George’s involvement.

I'm aware, but I doubt you'd be able to point to which bits George did and didn't do. Saying "I doubt" or "I think" doesn't mean he didn't. Frankly, I take a lot of the higher end Mythos stuff as George's work- political clashes between armies and houses smells like A Song of Ice and Fire to me.

Unfortunately I don't speak Japanese, but I have read an English interview available online, where he does say George mostly worked on background stuff and the mythos- which would include what I'm talking about. The stars, their importance, the ring itself, etc. If he does lay out literally everything George does there, so be it, but that looks to be a relatively short interview, so eh.

 

[M3X_2.0]

yes

"Well, well... Seluvis in not a name I ever wanted to hear again...But, fine. If it will help you, my apprentice, I offer my knowledge. The stars alter the fate of the Carian royal family. And the fate of your mistress, Ranni. But long ago, General Radahn challenged the swirling constellations, and in a crushing victory, arrested their cycles. Now, he is the force that repulses the stars. If General Radahn were to die, the stars would resume their movement. And so, too, would Ranni's destiny."

But it seriously depends on translations. Though it doesnt make sense if all the descriptions related to Astrologers and Carian magicians and their ties to stars and reading fate by viewing the stars to actually mean they are talking about meteors, especially when the servants of Carian royals have drawings of stars on their gowns and hats showing they know what stars actually are.
Something is going on with the translations within this game. Or Radahn stopped the orbit of everything in space besides the Earth but thats only possible if every single thing in the game is accurately translated.

Literally nothing you said debunks that description. It's the most literal statement we have in the game about what does star means in this context. Falling stars is what was stated in this item telling the story of radahn's fight with the stars, a star fell on Nokron. Doesn't seem that hard to understand.

 

[M3X_2.0]

The devs may well have worked from English to Japanese, meaning English could very likely be the more accurate language.

I thought that as well. Why would japanese be the most accurate one when the only language the game is dubbed is english?

 

[Dienomite22]

I'm aware, but I doubt you'd be able to point to which bits George did and didn't do. Saying "I doubt" or "I think" doesn't mean he didn't. Frankly, I take a lot of the higher end Mythos stuff as George's work- political clashes between armies and houses smells like A Song of Ice and Fire to me.

It’s all perspective, for all we know the game’s translations wasn’t made from English to Japanese regardless of George’s level of involvement.

Unfortunately I don't speak Japanese, but I have read an English interview available online, where he does say George mostly worked on background stuff and the mythos- which would include what I'm talking about. The stars, their importance, the ring itself, etc. If he does lay out literally everything George does there, so be it, but that looks to be a relatively short interview, so eh.

The interview I’m talking about was a fairly large interview that was multiple pages. If I could get it and link it right now I would.

 

[Dienomite22]

Literally nothing you said debunks that description. It's the most literal statement we have in the game about what does star means in this context. Falling stars is what was stated in this item telling the story of radahn's fight with the stars, a star fell on Nokron. Doesn't seem that hard to understand.

It debunks the idea that its just meteors/comets

 

[Dienomite22]

I thought that as well. Why would japanese be the most accurate one when the only language the game is dubbed is english?

all souls games are originally released with an
english dubbed only

 

[Chariot190]

I've mentioned this before, so I'll say it again here:

In this instance, I don't actually know whether the Japanese translations, be they finnicky or not, would actually take priority from the English ones. From what I understand, GRRM wrote the overall mythos for the game and then Miyazaki went to town on it.

Whether this would lead to favoring Tier 4 or not, don't really know, I still think Tier 4 stuff requires too many gaps to be left unanswered. But uh... yeah. The devs may well have worked from English to Japanese, meaning English could very likely be the more accurate language.

It's weird but Japanese takes priority, GRRM did way less than you think as well, he wrote the baseline outline and premise (like the core concepts), and Miyazaki and lads did what they usually do, the vast majority of the work and fleshing it all out and adding shit, most of everything was by them still.
And the game had a weird translation cycle even then.

GRRM > adapted into Japanese transcript > translated back into english > dubbed/written over.
The Japanese text is the original raw version of everything, english comes one step after, and that goes for the voicework too, the game might be english in releases, but the english actors are reading lines translated from the japanese transcript. And it's kinda obvious too, english version has a few contradictory lines and paradoxes that only exist due to mistranslation that aren't in the japanese text.

It's fucky here but japanese would be the closest we have to the original, it supersedes the english text which was translated from the japanese text.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

all souls games are originally released with an
english dubbed only

Sekiro being the exception, right?

 

[Dienomite22]

Sekiro being the exception, right?

Sekiro and bloodborne I think.

Feels like I’m the only person that doesn't view Sekiro as a souls game lmao.

 

[M3X_2.0]

all souls games are originally released with an
english dubbed only

Bloodborne

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Ah ah, they said SOULS. And as we all know, Bloodborne is just Borne

sarcasm

 

[Dienomite22]

Ah ah, they said SOULS. And as we all know, Bloodborne is just Borne

sarcasm

soulsborneden ring: shadows die twice

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

soulsborneden ring: shadows die twice

Beautiful name

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It's weird but Japanese takes priority, GRRM did way less than you think as well, he wrote the baseline outline and premise (like the core concepts), and Miyazaki and lads did what they usually do, the vast majority of the work and fleshing it all out and adding shit, most of everything was by them still.
And the game had a weird translation cycle even then.

GRRM > adapted into Japanese transcript > translated back into english > dubbed/written over.
The Japanese text is the original raw version of everything, english comes one step after, and that goes for the voicework too, the game might be english in releases, but the english actors are reading lines translated from the japanese transcript. And it's kinda obvious too, english version has a few contradictory lines and paradoxes that only exist due to mistranslation that aren't in the japanese text.

It's fucky here but japanese would be the closest we have to the original, it supersedes the english text which was translated from the japanese text.

It seems to me the functioning of stars would fit the premise of the game.

The game has adapted to fit GRRM's writings. This means English is the original, with Japanese being the original for a lot of things.

All I'm saying is, we're using weebshit logic that Japanese takes priority, when in this case that doesn't seem to be the case. The only rebuttal I've ever heard is "oh but GRRM didn't do much"- yeah, but he did work on the fundamentals on which the game was built. The game seems to expound on stars quite a lot, I fail to see how that wouldn't be touched upon by George.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The interview I’m talking about was a fairly large interview that was multiple pages. If I could get it and link it right now I would.

Aye, I found the thing. It isn't really terribly large. It's multiple pages, but much of those pages are covered with gaudy graphics.

 

[Chariot190]

It seems to me the functioning of stars would fit the premise of the game.

The game has adapted to fit GRRM's writings. This means English is the original, with Japanese being the original for a lot of things.

All I'm saying is, we're using weebshit logic that Japanese takes priority, when in this case that doesn't seem to be the case. The only rebuttal I've ever heard is "oh but GRRM didn't do much"- yeah, but he did work on the fundamentals on which the game was built. The game seems to expound on stars quite a lot, I fail to see how that wouldn't be touched upon by George.

I hope to God I don't have to explain why it doesn't work like that and "lol weebshit logic" isn't a rebuttal worth a damn, or worth anything for that matter, because that isn't what it is, it's literally just common sense and knowing how shit gets made.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Bruh we knew this would be confusing but it keeps getting worse and worse

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I hope to God I don't have to explain why it doesn't work like that and "lol weebshit logic" isn't a rebuttal worth a damn, or worth anything for that matter, because that isn't what it is, it's literally just common sense and knowing how shit gets made.

I'd actually like an explanation, yeah? GRRM had a part in creating the basic groundwork for the verse. Specifically the phrase I've seen used is the "mythos". So why, specifically, are we ignoring the English variants and saying "welp whatever it says in Japanese", when A. this, from what I can tell, creates a huge slew of issues for Anime verses as it is, and B. probably isn't even correct in this instance? My flippant dismissal of weebshit aside (this is the scientifically correct term), I really don't see how you can just say "gr this is just how things get made gr". Like no, it isn't, this is far from a typical creation when the world was written by one man and modified by another.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean it seems pretty simple to me, GRRM created the groundwork sure, but that groundwork was first adapted into a Japanese script, and then that Japanese script was translated into English. Even if the source of some of the plot is English, the English script we have on our hands is descended from the JP one, not GRRM's writing. Hell we don't even know if the translation team was given direct access to GRRM's original groundwork.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean it seems pretty simple to me, GRRM created the groundwork sure, but that groundwork was first adapted into a Japanese script, and then that Japanese script was translated into English. Even if the source of some of the plot is English, the English script we have on our hands is descended from the JP one, not GRRM's writing. Hell we don't even know if the translation team was given direct access to GRRM's original groundwork.

That doesn't seem to justify using purely the Japanese over the English at all. Not knowing the extent of the writer team's access GRRM's writing is irrelevant- whatever they received, it was based on GRRM.

We have a general notion of what GRRM did. We know that he probably didn't write that in Japanese. If we're arguing that we should use Japanese because it is the language used to fundamentally tell the story of the game (then translated into English), then the argument exists that English would take superiority because the story was originally written into English, and then adapted into Japanese, to later be translated back to English for the US release of the game.

I'm aware the Wiki standard is to just say "ah welp use Japanese, came from Japan", which is all well and good in basically every situation besides this one. We literally know the basic verse was written in English. Using Japanese over English for this one situation is so weird.

 

[Armorchompy]

That doesn't seem to justify using purely the Japanese over the English at all. Not knowing the extent of the writer team's access GRRM's writing is irrelevant- whatever they received, it was based on GRRM.

Yes, and it was also written in Japanese. It really shouldn't be that hard to realize that the English script is further removed from GRRM's writing, not less.

The story was originally written into English, and then adapted into Japanese, to later be translated back to English for the US release of the game.

... Which means the Japanese script is closer to the original. Do you think that somehow by translating something into JP and then back into EN will remove the errors made by the JP translation? It will literally just add more.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yes, and it was also written in Japanese. It really shouldn't be that hard to realize that the English script is further removed from GRRM's writing, not less.

If we assume they just tossed said writings into the bin, sure. Otherwise, they could just... reference GRRM's writing again, for the English translation. I literally don't know why we're saying nobody on the team used GRRM's stuff except for Miyazaki himself.

... Which means the Japanese script is closer to the original. Do you think that somehow by translating something into JP and then back into EN will remove the errors made by the JP translation? It will literally just add more.

No, it means the original is closer to the original. I don't know why we're ignoring the original.

For others, I'm speaking to Armor on Discord to see if I'm just schizophrenic, which is admittedly possible. Like this isn't even a huge deal compared to the main issues, I just don't understand the logic here.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Update: I'm certainly not schizophrenic, the assumptions that we should use Japanese were indeed just that, and some day I'll have someone just admit that out the gate rather than beat around the bush. Some day indeed.

In any case, Armor has actually backed up the claim. The English translation team outright said in an interview that they did not have access to GRRM's writings due to not wanting to bother Miyazaki. This, for once, seems fair.

If y'all wanna convince me, just provide proof smh.

 

[Armorchompy]

Source is here btw

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Update: I'm certainly not schizophrenic, the assumptions that we should use Japanese were indeed just that, and some day I'll have someone just admit that out the gate rather than beat around the bush. Some day indeed.

In any case, Armor has actually backed up the claim. The English translation team outright said in an interview that they did not have access to GRRM's writings due to not wanting to bother Miyazaki. This, for once, seems fair.

If y'all wanna convince me, just provide proof smh.

I'm just disappointed in the fact that the English translation team just wasn't bothered to contact Miyazaki, when we could have had a more accurate translation

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm just disappointed in the fact that the English translation team just wasn't bothered to contact Miyazaki, when we could have had a more accurate translation

I also am, but hey. I'd like to think they did the best they could, like everything about the game is professional so it seems to me FromSoft would do what they could, but I do wish the English team was given more resources to work with.

Oh well. Fun game, regardless.

 

[GIANTkitty]

I know this is a weird question, but what tiers are we going to separate the characters/bosses into? By that I mean who are we grouping up with who?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I know this is a weird question, but what tiers are we going to separate the characters/bosses into? By that I mean who are we grouping up with who?

That remains to be seen. In my opinion, the demigods are all relatively comparable (barring, maybe, Godrick, due to some lore I seem to recall saying he's a distant relation and also a general shit-eater compared to the others). Similarly, I think Hoarah Loux scales to the end-game bosses, along with a couple other sparse individuals. A lot of the minibosses probably scale to each other, we've discussed some feats for these guys thus far- I think the most promising are the magma wyrm's lava breath and the fallingstar beast's craters, since one of them leveled a mountaintop in Gelmir. NPCs are wildly variable, methinks.

 

[Armorchompy]

Do people like Alexander or Blaidd scale to Radahn or not, in yall's opinions?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Don't know about Blaidd, but IMHO I wouldn't scale Alexander to Radahn at all. Didn't he say in one of his dialogues that a single hit was enough to almost kill him?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

That remains to be seen. In my opinion, the demigods are all relatively comparable (barring, maybe, Godrick, due to some lore I seem to recall saying he's a distant relation and also a general shit-eater compared to the others).

Yep, he's a far descendant of Marika and he's shit compared to the other demigods, he got his ass brutally and effortlessly kicked when he attempted to invade Leyndell and he only survived by hidding and he's still trying to attend to his wounds when we meet him

 

[GIANTkitty]

I think for now, here's the pecking order (at least from what I can tell and some guesswork on my part)

1. The Greater Will
2. Full-blown gods (Marika & Radagon, Elden Beast, Ranni post-Age of Stars, Our Tarnished, etc)
3. Demigods (Malenia, Radahn, etc, and including Godfrey)
4. Other bosses (Placidusax, Fire Giant, Astel, etc, also including Godrick for canonically being a wimp)
5. Minibosses (Fallingstar Beasts, Magma Wyrm, Godskins, Crucible Knights, etc)
6. Basic Enemies and most other NPCs (Soldiers, most NPCs, NPC bosses, etc)

Think this works? I think some specific NPCs like Blaidd or Melina (those who are canonically really powerful) need some more debate but I think they'd be best put in third place along with the demigods since Melina is capable of fighting on par with Morgott, and Blaidd is capable of killing a late-game Tarnished.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I think for now, here's the pecking order (at least from what I can tell and some guesswork on my part)

1. The Greater Will
2. Full-blown gods (Marika & Radagon, Elden Beast, Ranni post-Age of Stars, Our Tarnished, etc)
3. Demigods (Malenia, Radahn, etc, and including Godfrey)
4. Other bosses (Placidusax, Fire Giant, Astel, etc, also including Godfrey for canonically being a wimp)
5. Minibosses (Fallingstar Beasts, Magma Wyrm, Godskins, Crucible Knights, etc)
6. Basic Enemies and most other NPCs (Soldiers, most NPCs, NPC bosses, etc)

Think this works? I think some specific NPCs like Blaidd or Melina (those who are canonically really powerful) need some more debate but I think they'd be best put in third place along with the demigods since Melina is capable of fighting on par with Morgott, and Blaidd is capable of killing a late-game Tarnished.

You listed Godfrey twice

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Placidusax probably scales way above that, gonna be honest. Dude was the equivalent of Elden Lord at one point. His power may well be diminished, given how long it's been, but at least a possibly seems fair. No other complaint comes immediately to mind.