Elden Ring Profiles

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Shabiri is already dead lore wise, so this is a big nono.

In this case, okay

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

The fact that Malenia has not yet attained godhood during her fight against the Tarnished proves that this is not a valid argument for defending the Godfrey 4-A.

Am I crazy?
Didn't Malenia literally attain Godhood in the second phase of her fight?

I'm fine with Godfrey being 4-A, since Radagon/Elden Beast is significantly above baseline, Godfrey would still fall in that range from downscaling. And if we treat absorbing Remembrances as absorbing the power of the ones we claim them from, then the boost from killing Godfrey is only about 2x or a little bit above, so it's not even a very sizeable downscale.

That and the fact that he was fully ready to take on Radagon to once again claim the throne

 

[SheevShezarrine]

The fact that Malenia has not yet attained godhood during her fight against the Tarnished proves that this is not a valid argument for defending the Godfrey 4-A.

She's very damn close, to the extent that she's even just straight-up called the Goddess of Rot

The Gloam-Eyed Queen was an Empyrean, not a Goddess. Malenia is also an Empyrean, and she is only High 4-C.

Empyreans encompass both Gods/Goddesses and prospective candidates. There are several videos by SmoughTown and Tarnished Archaeologist (both prolific and well-respected ER lore divers) that lay out solid implications that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was the God of the previous age

It is only their equipments that the Tarnished receives from their remembrances.

Tell that to Elden Beast, I duplicated its remembrance at each of the walking mausoleums to get 350k Runes lel

 

[SheevShezarrine]

I should also mention that Godfrey, as Elden Lord (and all Elden Lords for that matter) is their God's right hand and chief enforcer, so it would be rather odd to have them be leaps and bounds weaker than their matron, as that would make the station of Elden Lord rather useless and redundant. As an aside, would an Elden Lord that's vastly inferior to their God even be capable of siring a worthy lineage? In addition, Godfrey is heavily implied to have fought and defeated Placidusax, whose scales contain the power (albeit at least in part due to time hax) needed to make a weapon capable of killing a God. The weapons made with Placidusax's scales can harm Radagon + Elden Beast with sheer force and withstand the ordeal as well, so that's more evidence towards Elden Lords scaling to their Gods

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Shabiri is already dead lore wise, so this is a big nono.

Sorry not sorry but I heavily disagree, if Melina can be High 4-C by virtue of helping us in the Morgott battle, then Shabriri should be as well for helping us in the Godfrey battle (also friendly reminder he can fight an Endgame Tarnished) so High 4-C Shabriri is a big yesyes

Aside from that, I can agree with the tier downgrade from 4-A to High 4-C for several characters

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Regarding Radagon...should we acknowledge the Elden puppet theory?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Sorry not sorry but I heavily disagree, if Melina can be High 4-C by virtue of helping us in the Morgott battle, then Shabriri should be as well for helping us in the Godfrey battle (also friendly reminder he can fight an Endgame Tarnished) so High 4-C Shabriri is a big yesyes

Aside from that, I can agree with the tier downgrade from 4-A to High 4-C for several characters

Melina is alive and present during the Morgott battle so she's valid. Shabiri isn't.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Melina is alive and present during the Morgott battle so she's valid. Shabiri isn't.

Shabriri is possessing a body, meaning he can interact with the physical world and fight, and he's using Frenzied Flame incantations, which Yura (the man whose body Shabriri is possessing) is never seen using in his fights included the two scripted fights that are parts of his storyline, meaning Shabriri is using his own power and can hurt us and Godfrey with that power. Therefore he's valid.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Am I crazy?
Didn't Malenia literally attain Godhood in the second phase of her fight?

Nope:

Each time the scarlet flower blooms, Malenia's rot advances. It has bloomed twice already. With the third bloom, she will become a true goddess.

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Scarlet+Aeonia

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Nope:

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Scarlet+Aeonia

Friendly reminder that the boss battle is only the second time, not the third (doesn't change the fact she temporarily attains godhood anyway)

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

She's very damn close, to the extent that she's even just straight-up called the Goddess of Rot

That doesn't mean the 4-A is valid, whether it's for Malenia or Godfrey, because a character can have a transformation millions of times more powerful than his previous transformation. But that Malenia Goddess of Rot is possibly 4-A is not impossible either, no other demigod scales to this form anyway

Empyreans encompass both Gods/Goddesses and prospective candidates.

An Empyrean is a possible heir to a God, not a God himself. In your logic, Base form Malenia would be superior to Radahn because she's an empyrean and Radahn just a demigod, and that contradicts the lore. And there's literally no explicit or implicit evidence that the Gloam-eyed queen was a God like Marika, she was just an empyrean who was a big threat to Marika and her family because she had the black flame.

so it would be rather odd to have them be leaps and bounds weaker than their matron, as that would make the station of Elden Lord rather useless and redundant.

There is absolutely nothing inconsistent with Godfrey being vastly inferior to a God who is vassal of the Elden Ring.
Even if you are the most powerful being in the universe, you can still have qualities that you lack to carry out certain projects, so in this case you must hire other people with these missing qualities to help you.

In addition, Godfrey is heavily implied to have fought and defeated Placidusax, whose scales contain the power (albeit at least in part due to time hax) needed to make a weapon capable of killing a God. The weapons made with Placidusax's scales can harm Radagon + Elden Beast with sheer force and withstand the ordeal as well, so that's more evidence towards Elden Lords scaling to their Gods

The Storm Lord Godfrey faced could be Placidusax just as it could be the Stormhawk King.
And if it was Placidusax, it's not necessary proof because as you said yourself, it's via a time hax, only via a time hax as the description says:

This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god.

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Somber+Ancient+Dragon+Smithing+Stone

Tell that to Elden Beast, I duplicated its remembrance at each of the walking mausoleums to get 350k Runes lel

Remembrance runes are only gained by selling them, and the runes given by the bosses are clearly not usable for powerscaling between them, the same for multipliers. All this is just gameplay, lorewise we just know that runes can be converted into power by Melina, that's all.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

(doesn't change the fact she temporarily attains godhood anyway)

True godhood will only be achieved with the third bloom, so that means she wasn't really the equivalent of Marika after the second bloom.
And there's nothing to suggest that Malenia's transformation after the second bloom is temporary btw.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Aren't Empyreans simply stated to be a race like all others anyway?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

True godhood will only be achieved with the third bloom, so that means she wasn't really the equivalent of Marika after the second bloom.
And there's nothing to suggest that Malenia's transformation after the second bloom is temporary btw.

Never said she was the equivalent of Marika, just that she is a goddess at the moment of her second phase. As for the temporary part, the whole "she will only attain true godhood after the third bloom" is what kind of makes me think the second is only temporary but that's just me

 

[SheevShezarrine]

a character can have a transformation millions of times more powerful than his previous transformation.

Which Malenia's isn't

An Empyrean is a possible heir to a God, not a God himself.

An Empyrean is as much a state of being as it is a title. Marika didn't stop being an Empyrean, she just graduated to being a successful one: a God

In your logic, Base form Malenia would be superior to Radahn because she's an empyrean and Radahn just a demigod, and that contradicts the lore.

That's not what I said and I think you know that.

And there's literally no explicit or implicit evidence

Explicit? Sure. Implicit? Lol, lmao even.

that the Gloam-eyed queen was a God like Marika, she was just an empyrean who was a big threat to Marika and her family because she had the black flame.

Still a direct threat in a direct dust-up, and would be considerably less notable if Marika was more than capable of reducing her to atoms with a wave of her hand before Gloam-Eyed Queen could attempt a hax win

There is absolutely nothing inconsistent with Godfrey being vastly inferior to a God

Aside from being second to last boss in the game after we've collected massive chunks of the Elden Ring and being quite prepared to kill Radagon to get his chair back

who is vassal of the Elden Ring.
Even if you are the most powerful being in the universe, you can still have qualities that you lack to carry out certain projects, so in this case you must hire other people with these missing qualities to help you.

She brought on Godfrey as someone who could lead her armies from the front, someone who could rule an empire, and as someone she could make babies with. All three of which she is capable of

The Storm Lord Godfrey faced could be Placidusax just as it could be the Stormhawk King.

More likely Placidusax

And if it was Placidusax, it's not necessary proof because as you said yourself, it's via a time hax, only via a time hax as the description says:

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Somber+Ancient+Dragon+Smithing+Stone

Still doesn't address the fact that weapons upgraded with them have the AP and durability needed to harm gods and not be destroyed by them and those directly comparable to them.

Remembrance runes are only gained by selling them

You can literally use them like other consumable runes

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Which Malenia's isn't

There is no proof that Malenia Goddess of Rot is millions of times stronger than her base form just as there is no proof that she is just twice as strong as her base form. So in any case no concrete evidence of 4-A for Malenia.

That's not what I said and I think you know that.

I think you implied that Malenia was 4-A because the "Empyreans encompass both Gods/Goddesses and prospective candidates." If you didn't think so, I don't see why this argument was useful for our debate (which concerns the 4-A of Godfrey and Malenia).

Explicit? Sure. Implicit? Lol, lmao even.

In this case shows this implicit evidence that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was a goddess. Above all, it doesn't make sense that the Gloam Eyed Queen was a goddess:

The Gloam-Eyed Queen was an Empyrean, a title given to the heir of a God and chosen by the Two Fingers, thus bound with the Greater Will and the Elden Ring. When Maliketh defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen, Marika was already a Goddess and vassal of the Elden Ring (the War of the Giants was even passed as a Fire Monks joined the Gloam-Eyed Queen), as she removed the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring.

There can't be two Gods and two vassals of the Elden Ring.

Aside from being second to last boss in the game after we've collected massive chunks of the Elden Ring

Being the second to last boss means absolutely nothing in terms of powerscaling.

and being quite prepared to kill Radagon to get his chair back

Still no concrete proof to scale Godfrey has a God. Being ready to go someone doesn't mean you're necessarily going to beat him up or give him a hard fight. And Godfrey didn't even know he was going to face Radagon, and he's also probably not even aware that Radagon is Marika.

Still a direct threat in a direct dust-up, and would be considerably less notable if Marika was more than capable of reducing her to atoms with a wave of her hand before Gloam-Eyed Queen could attempt a hax win

You can be Wall level and be able to hax stomp a Planet level without issue in a fight. So no, there is no scaling possible between the Gloam-Eyed Queen and Marika for now.

She brought on Godfrey as someone who could lead her armies from the front, someone who could rule an empire, and as someone she could make babies with. All three of which she is capable of

There is no evidence that Marika has any knowledge of commanding an army and in the art of war in general.

Godfrey led the army in the War against the Giants, Radagon in both Liurnia Wars, Godwyn ended the War of the Ancients Dragons by confronting and defeating Fortissax, and Maliketh defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen and her Apostles Marika is the vassal of the Elden Ring but she constantly lets her allies defeat her enemies, enemies she could defeat herself. So no, there is no inconsistency in Godfrey being vastly inferior to Marika.

More likely Placidusax

Both characters are very likely, there is currently no explicit or implicit evidence that it is one or the other

Still doesn't address the fact that weapons upgraded with them have the AP and durability needed to harm gods and not be destroyed by them and those directly comparable to them.

And how does this argument help to scale Godfrey to 4-A??? I must remind that the Tarnished can upgrade their weapons between the Godfrey fight and Radagon/Marika/the Elden Beast fight, which prevents scaling the first to the second via the argument that Godfrey is the previous boss fight in Radagon.

And the lore specifies that the scales of Placidusax allow you to defeat a God thanks to time hax, not brute force. So no reason to scale Placidusax and the Elden Beast

You can literally use them like other consumable runes

And how does it help in terms of powerscaling ????

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Still no concrete proof to scale Godfrey has a God. Being ready to go someone doesn't mean you're necessarily going to beat him up or give him a hard fight. And Godfrey didn't even know he was going to face Radagon, and he's also probably not even aware that Radagon is Marika.

Good point

In all likelihood he was assuming he was gonna have to fight Marika herself

Also, no, being ready to fight someone specifically to take the place as Elden Lord requires you to at least believe you have a chance at winning. You wouldn't walk into a fight you know you can't win in real life and the same applies here

At the very least a "possibly 4-A" rating is very well deserved

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

In all likelihood he was assuming he was gonna have to fight Marika herself

Also, no, being ready to fight someone specifically to take the place as Elden Lord requires you to at least believe you have a chance at winning. You wouldn't walk into a fight you know you can't win in real life and the same applies here

He also couldn't have known that he was going to face Marika in combat to become the Elden Lord, because the Elden Lord is Marika's Consort

"I had my doubts, but...my, look at you. Only once before have I seen two Great Runes together.
Look there. The Fingers shudder with exuberance.
"Fine work, brave Tarnished. The Greater Will is pleased. You have earned the right to become Elden Lord.
Now, seek the Erdtree, and an audience with Queen Marika. To become Elden Lord, and restore the Golden Order."
The Fingers expect... As much from you as they do young Gideon.
Take this. A token of farewell.

"Queen Marika is the vessel of the Elden Ring, carrier of its vision.
A god, in truth. But after the Elden Ring's shattering, she was imprisoned in the Erdtree.
A grim punishment for shattering the Order, despite her godhood. The Fingers speak...
"Marika's trespass demanded a heavy sentence. But even in shackles, she remains a god, and the vision's vessel.
Confer Great Runes to become Elden Lord, and join Queen Marika as her consort. The Fingers have willed it so"
Now, you may go."

So initially it was planned that the Tarnished who won his journey would have an audience with Marika to marry her, not confront her or confront Radagon.

And that makes sense, Marika is not an Elden Lord and never has been, you don't need to beat her to be the new Elden Lord, she is the queen and the wife of the Elden Lord.

 

[Gasper]

Is there a reason why ancient dragons don't have profiles?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Is there a reason why ancient dragons don't have profiles?

Same as for why Ranni, Blaidd and many others don't. Nobody decided to make them. Also, I don't know about others but Maliketh and Marika need a rework.

 

[RinneItachi]

Is there a reason why ancient dragons don't have profiles?

Nobody cared enough. Elden Ring is huge as a game but in the powerscaling communities it's scarcely talked about. If it was bigger we'd probably have profiles for them.

 

[RinneItachi]

Any predictions for how the DLC will effect the game's scaling if at all? I imagine Miquella will have some crazy feats. And if the Land of Shadow is a different dimension with its own space time that would be huge for the game's cosmology, not that anyone would scale to it unless something crazy happens but yeah.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Any predictions for how the DLC will effect the game's scaling if at all? I imagine Miquella will have some crazy feats. And if the Land of Shadow is a different dimension with its own space time that would be huge for the game's cosmology, not that anyone would scale to it unless something crazy happens but yeah.

Yeah I'm thinking low 2-C if this involves different dimensions shit. And I do believe that scaling is possible depending on who we fight and if said person has dominion over the dimension.

 

[Gasper]

Doesn't the Greater Will scale to the whole cosmology?

 

[RinneItachi]

Doesn't the Greater Will scale to the whole cosmology?

I don't think so. Unless it was said that the Greater Will created all of existence.

 

[Gasper]

I don't think so. Unless it was said that the Greater Will created all of existence.

Greater Will at least created the primordial matter and life from which the Erdtree came from, so maybe.

 

[RinneItachi]

Greater Will at least created the primordial matter and life from which the Erdtree came from, so maybe.

Oh wasn't there some debate about translations with that stuff.

 

[Gasper]

Oh wasn't there some debate about translations with that stuff.

About what exactly? I didn't follow the arguments against this stuff on Vs Wiki.
I only know about a Tree before the Erdtree to be a mistranslation. As far as i know the Crucible which is some kind of primordial matter/life from which the Erdtree emerged is widely accepted.

 

[RinneItachi]

About what exactly? I didn't follow the arguments against this stuff on Vs Wiki.
I only know about a Tree before the Erdtree to be a mistranslation. As far as i know the Crucible which is some kind of primordial matter/life from which the Erdtree emerged is widely accepted.

Idk I just remember there being some big debate on what Hyetta said about the Greater Will and Frenzied Flame being a lot different in the Japanese version but I didn't look into it much. I just go with Eng versions since that's the main one.