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Elden Ring Profiles

So, I've finally beaten Elden Ring, and I've been asked a couple of times by a couple different people to give my input on this thread. I can't right at this moment, but I'd love to get involved with the discussion and creation of the profiles!
 
Mr._Bambu said:
As mentioned in prior threads:

  • Radahn's feat of calling down meteors was calc'd (or so I've heard) at 7-A. If that gets posted to an actual calc blog, where someone is insane enough to count the falling stars, they can do so.
  • Right now I've only really seen one instance of arguable Tier 4, and that's the statement from the first teaser trailer where it was said the Elden Ring commands the very stars. Unlike Radahn's "stars", these seem to be the real deal. Only downside? Teaser trailer released two years before the full game.
  • If nothing else for lower tiers, we have shit like Magma Wyrms spitting molten rock, and Fallingstar Beasts being literal meteors. We even have a crater for the one near Volcano Manor, where they leveled the top of a mountain. Both good choices.
  • Shit tier enemies can probably scale to breaking a small cart or a bunch of boxes or smth.
Click to expand...
So, I've actually already talked a little bit about some of this stuff with Bambu in DMs! I'll summarise a few of the things we talked about that are relevant to this thread, as well as my own conclusions.

I'd argue there is more basis for tier 4 than it seems originally, and we don't have to purely rely entirely on "the Elden Ring commanded the stars" as evidence. To quote the sorceress Sellen:

"Well, well... Seluvis is not a name I ever wanted to hear again... But, fine. If it will help you, my apprentice, I offer my knowledge. The stars alter the fate of the Carian royal family. And the fate of your mistress, Ranni. But long ago, General Radahn challenged the swirling constellations, and in a crushing victory, arrested their cycles. Now, he is the force that repulses the stars. If General Radahn were to die, the stars would resume their movement. And so, too, would Ranni's destiny."

Now, this statement is a bit contentious all on its own; Radahn having a "crushing victory" over the stars isn't too meaningful when you consider that the term "star" is used in many different contexts in Elden Ring (such as shooting stars and meteors, which wouldn't qualify for tier 4 in itself). However, the first bolded part is important. Sellen refers to how "The stars alter the fate of the Carian royal family", and this gives more context as to what the "stars" being referred to here are. The Carian royal family revolves around a lot of astrology, and the telescope item even states that it was part of an astrology tool used by the Carian royal family for viewing the night skies. Furthermore, more solidly, various locations related to the Carian royal family feature astrolabes; real life tools used in medieval times to examine and map out the movement of the stars on the night sky. The connection between stars and the Carian royal family doesn't appear to be figurative, nor is it exclusively referring to meteors or shooting stars, as this wouldn't explain the presence and relevance of the astrolabes; they explicitly do study the literal stars in the night sky, and use this to adjust their decisions, as is done with astrology. Furthermore, it specifically states that Radahn's victory "arrested the cycles" of the stars; this is oddly specific phrasing, but makes sense when you consider how astrolabes were used for mapping out the progression of stars across the night sky. "Arresting the cycles", therefore, would refer to stopping the progression of the stars, hindering the Carian royal family who relied on that progression to determine their fate.

All of this together gives context on what Sellen is saying. This feat has to do with the same stars that the Carian royal family studied for astrological purposes, which would confirm that it's referring to the actual stars, as meteors and shooting stars cannot be studied in the same way. And furthermore, this gives an actual exact metric to the feat, albeit one I have no idea how to calculate: Radahn's victory completely halted and restrained the movement of all the stars in the night sky.
 
I'm still hard against Tier 4 Radahn, to be clear, though I did discuss some stuff with Grath in DMs, aye. As mentioned in DMs, I feel it is still far more likely that item descriptions referring to some vague victory over the stars refers to the Fallingstar Beasts (who are also referred to as stars). With this context, the descriptions state that these creatures are tied to Carian nobles- which also fits, given where Astel is. Radahn "arresting their cycles" could well enough refer to holding them back from this world.

All makes sense to me.

EDIT: I should also note Grath and I discussed the Elden Ring's tier itself. If she'd like to summarize that as well, she may.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I'm still hard against Tier 4 Radahn, to be clear, though I did discuss some stuff with Grath in DMs, aye. As mentioned in DMs, I feel it is still far more likely that item descriptions referring to some vague victory over the stars refers to the Fallingstar Beasts (who are also referred to as stars). With this context, the descriptions state that these creatures are tied to Carian nobles- which also fits, given where Astel is. Radahn "arresting their cycles" could well enough refer to holding them back from this world.

All makes sense to me.
Click to expand...
Based on all informations, it's likely it was simply both. Radahn stopped the Fallingstar Beasts to prevent them from landing in the LB with his gravity Magic, wich was his primary objective, but in doing so, he also stopped the real stars themselves at the same time. Not to mention nothing indicates Sellen was aware of beasts like Astel
 
Last edited:
I think the "falling stars" could very well be real stars though, it's a very specific term to constantly use when "meteor" is in the dictionary of this game and they share a lot of characteristics with real stars, namely carrying creatures within them (the Elden Beast came from a golden star) and being associated with Radahn. And if they are I would assume them to be bab mythology stars
 
Right. I'm not opposed to that belief, since as you say that has a good amount of correlating info supporting it, too.
 
If I recall, the EB didn't come from a star but was the star

"It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring."
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I'm still hard against Tier 4 Radahn, to be clear, though I did discuss some stuff with Grath in DMs, aye. As mentioned in DMs, I feel it is still far more likely that item descriptions referring to some vague victory over the stars refers to the Fallingstar Beasts (who are also referred to as stars). With this context, the descriptions state that these creatures are tied to Carian nobles- which also fits, given where Astel is. Radahn "arresting their cycles" could well enough refer to holding them back from this world.

All makes sense to me.
Click to expand...
I have a few disagreements here.

"With this context, the descriptions state that these creatures are tied to Carian nobles- which also fits, given where Astel is."

I'm not totally certain what you're referring to, so do correct me if I'm mistaken. Your premise here is that the Fallingstar Beasts are called, well, "falling stars", and that they become Astels. From that, you're saying this description from Sellen is just reinforcement of the idea that the Fallingstar Beasts are connected to the Carian royal family, because there is an Astel close to the Cathedral of Manus Celes, which is connected to Ranni's questline?

I take a few issues with this interpretation. First of all, the proximity of one of the Astels to the Cathedral of Manus Celes does not mean that they are inherently connected, especially since there are multiple other unrelated locations with fights against Astels. Second of all, nothing I can recall suggests that the Carian royal family "studied" the Astels; what there is proof of, in the form of aforementioned aspects like the astrolabes, is that they did study the stars in the night sky. Third of all, Sellen doesn't simply use the term "star" without giving context on it, which is what a lot of my comment was focused on; she explicitly states that the stars being referred to are the ones that "alter the fate of the Carian royal family". Given how the Carian royal family is rooted in deep astrological practice, and astrology is a process where the stars in the night sky are used to determine the future, this is clearly referring to the actual stars and not the Astels.

Whatever way I try and look at it, it doesn't make sense for "star" in this context to be anything other than literal.

"Radahn "arresting their cycles" could well enough refer to holding them back from this world."

The phrasing would make no sense in that case. Sellen states, rather than anything else, that Radahn "arrested their cycles"; this is extremely specific phrasing, and distinct from saying anything along the lines of "killed" or "imprisoned" or even "held them back". I'm not sure how you'd derive "Radahn held them back from this world" from the phrasing, because... well, that's literally entirely different on a definitional level. It's not even a matter of weird interpretation, "arrested their cycles" just outright doesn't mean "he held them back".
 
From the beginning, i was skeptical about the tier 4 even as someone who bring this out in first place, but not in any mean against it
However based what Grath said above i think tier 4 is ok now, honestly "tier 7/6, possibly tier 4" for the Elden Ring is the best instead flat out "tier 4" but that just me
 
I definitely think stars being smaller than IRL ones should at least be considered, they're equated to falling stars a lot, and those are provably not tier 4.
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
From the beginning, i was skeptical about the tier 4 even as someone who bring this out in first place, but not in any mean against it
However based what Grath said above i think tier 4 is ok now, honestly "tier 7/6, possibly tier 4" for the Elden Ring is the best instead flat out "tier 4" but that just me
Click to expand...
Let me write a thematic outline for my current point of view on this, and explain what I think this would mean for tiering.

Sellen refers to the stars that "alter the fate of the Carian royal family". The Carian royal family is made up of astrologers. The Carian royal family possesses various astrological tools, such as telescopes and astrolabes, which are used for studying the stars in the night sky. Astrologers study the stars in the night sky to determine various things, most notably the future and their fate. Sellen also refers to them in the same paragraph as being "constellations", which exclusively refers to patterns of stars in the night sky, and has no relevance to things that could be called/misconstrued as individual stars (like meteors, shooting stars, or fallingstar beasts). Radahn's actions towards these stars supposedly greatly impacted the Carian royal family, and of the available examples of things that could be called "stars", the only one that would be meaningful would be the stars of the night sky (as this would prevent them from conducting astrology). Therefore, despite issues with the way "star" is used in Elden Ring, there's more than enough context to firmly state that they are talking about the actual stars, and not simply related terms.

Sellen then refers to the same stars again, stating that "Radahn challenged the constellations (constellations, again, referencing clusters of stars in the night sky)" and that he "arrested their cycles". A "cycle", in the context of something physical, refers to a movement, a lifespan, a material progression, or some combination of the aforementioned factors. "Arresting" has multiple definitions, but the only relevant definition (since he obviously isn't holding them under legal custody) is "to stop progress/a process". Therefore, definitionally, "arrested the cycles" means "stopping the progression/movement/lifespan of the stars". Therefore, Radahn stopped the progression/movement/lifespan of the stars.

So, what does this all mean?

First of all, this probably needs to be calced, but I don't know exactly how it would be. The act of stopping the movement of the stars in the night sky is probably calculatable, and intuitively, it would likely land somewhere in tier 4. But I have no idea how to calculate that, and I can't imagine any calculations giving anything more than a rough estimate or range.

Second of all, I sincerely think this would work better for a "Likely" tiering than a definitive one. I hold the mindset that neither low-end nor high-end interpretations are inherently better nor worse; the conclusions reached on a profile should simply be the ones supported by the strongest evidence through deductive reasoning, or in the case of inductive reasoning, the conclusions reached on a profile should be the ones that require the least assumptions (Occam's Razor). I believe the evidence so far makes this interpretation the most reasonable and well-evidenced, but like with pretty much anything related to lore in Soulsborne games, there's at least some small assortative statements and assumptions being made. Giving Radahn say, tier 7 on the basis of the already calculated feats is the kind of deductive reasoning that should be used for a definitive rating; not only do I think all of this is reasonable, but I think saying it it true is more reasonable than the inverse. Even so, I wouldn't say this is 100% definitive or proven. As such, a "Likely" rating would fit this feat better.

TL;DR: The tier 7 feat is definitive enough that it should be used for the rating. The current (potentially tier 4) feat being discussed has a strong case, but is not 100% definitive or proven. Therefore, I believe Radahn's tier should be "7, likely 4".
 
Are there any other potential Tier 4 feats that could support Radahn's? There was the Rennala one people mentioned earlier, but there was lots of disagreement about whether that was even a feat at all.

Also, @DarkGrath, is your hesitancy with Tier 4 about the stars maybe not being star sized, or it about it being unclear what exactly Radahn was doing with them?
 
ObberGobb said:
Are there any other potential Tier 4 feats that could support Radahn's? There was the Rennala one people mentioned earlier, but there was lots of disagreement about whether that was even a feat at all.

Also, @DarkGrath, is your hesitancy with Tier 4 about the stars maybe not being star sized, or it about it being unclear what exactly Radahn was doing with them?
Click to expand...
Well, there is the astoundingly much more simple statement mentioned earlier. The "Elden Ring commanded the stars", according to one of the trailers for the game. I don't have much of an issue with that statement personally, as the trailer was written, produced, and released by FromSoftware as official marketing for the game. However, it's admittedly somewhat vague on its own, as it's not clear what "commanding" refers to. Even so, you could make an argument for tier 4 from that alone.

My argument for what Radahn did to the stars is based on definitions, which I'd regard as solid factual premises. I don't have a problem with that. I also take some issue with the theory that the stars in the night sky in Elden Ring are significantly smaller than real stars; conducting astrology using an astrolabe to map out the progression of stars when trying to analyse stars that are completely different sizes and distances away from earth than they are in reality makes very little sense. Remember, a star in the night sky being very, very small but still visibly the same size in the sky must mean that it's very, very close. This should reasonably prevent methods of observing and mapping out stars in the night sky from working. As such, I think saying "The stars in the night sky in Elden Ring are the same size as real stars" is a reasonable assortative statement. My issue is, simply, a lack of definitive proof; to use the previous point as an example, it's not outright impossible that the stars in the night sky in Elden Ring are smaller than real stars. It's just unlikely with the information we have. I don't consider "unlikely" good enough for a definitive tiering, especially when other similar issues may exist. I'm sticking with the belief that tier 4 is a justified and rational interpretation of the evidence, but I'm not going to claim it's proven.
 
DarkGrath said:
Let me write a thematic outline for my current point of view on this, and explain what I think this would mean for tiering.

Sellen refers to the stars that "alter the fate of the Carian royal family". The Carian royal family is made up of astrologers. The Carian royal family possesses various astrological tools, such as telescopes and astrolabes, which are used for studying the stars in the night sky. Astrologers study the stars in the night sky to determine various things, most notably the future and their fate. Sellen also refers to them in the same paragraph as being "constellations", which exclusively refers to patterns of stars in the night sky, and has no relevance to things that could be called/misconstrued as individual stars (like meteors, shooting stars, or fallingstar beasts). Radahn's actions towards these stars supposedly greatly impacted the Carian royal family, and of the available examples of things that could be called "stars", the only one that would be meaningful would be the stars of the night sky (as this would prevent them from conducting astrology). Therefore, despite issues with the way "star" is used in Elden Ring, there's more than enough context to firmly state that they are talking about the actual stars, and not simply related terms.

Sellen then refers to the same stars again, stating that "Radahn challenged the constellations (constellations, again, referencing clusters of stars in the night sky)" and that he "arrested their cycles". A "cycle", in the context of something physical, refers to a movement, a lifespan, a material progression, or some combination of the aforementioned factors. "Arresting" has multiple definitions, but the only relevant definition (since he obviously isn't holding them under legal custody) is "to stop progress/a process". Therefore, definitionally, "arrested the cycles" means "stopping the progression/movement/lifespan of the stars". Therefore, Radahn stopped the progression/movement/lifespan of the stars.

So, what does this all mean?

First of all, this probably needs to be calced, but I don't know exactly how it would be. The act of stopping the movement of the stars in the night sky is probably calculatable, and intuitively, it would likely land somewhere in tier 4. But I have no idea how to calculate that, and I can't imagine any calculations giving anything more than a rough estimate or range.

Second of all, I sincerely think this would work better for a "Likely" tiering than a definitive one. I hold the mindset that neither low-end nor high-end interpretations are inherently better nor worse; the conclusions reached on a profile should simply be the ones supported by the strongest evidence through deductive reasoning, or in the case of inductive reasoning, the conclusions reached on a profile should be the ones that require the least assumptions (Occam's Razor). I believe the evidence so far makes this interpretation the most reasonable and well-evidenced, but like with pretty much anything related to lore in Soulsborne games, there's at least some small assortative statements and assumptions being made. Giving Radahn say, tier 7 on the basis of the already calculated feats is the kind of deductive reasoning that should be used for a definitive rating; not only do I think all of this is reasonable, but I think saying it it true is more reasonable than the inverse. Even so, I wouldn't say this is 100% definitive or proven. As such, a "Likely" rating would fit this feat better.

TL;DR: The tier 7 feat is definitive enough that it should be used for the rating. The current (potentially tier 4) feat being discussed has a strong case, but is not 100% definitive or proven. Therefore, I believe Radahn's tier should be "7, likely 4".
Click to expand...
If we do that, would it work if we say "7-A physically, likely 4-A" for him since he uses Gravity Magic to affect meteors?
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Tier 7 would be 7-A for Radahn's meteor (I think?) but what would be tier 6?
Click to expand...
Radahn's feat too. The hole Radahn made is like 7-C, maybe 7-B, I just ran some rough numbers to see the approximate value. Multiplied though by the amount we see in the cutscene (I counted like 300~ give or take), gets like 7-A to 6-C. Obviously it'd need to be done precisely but that feat has the potential to be tier 6.
Caelid stuff and Farum stuff might be tier 6 too. And tbh, the Grand Cloister impact is ******* immense, it might be something insane too, from depth alone.

But that shit can wait, I'm kinda busy putting together the gifs and clips and then I'm probably gonna divy them out to dude's who called those specific characters.
Gonna take awhile though, takes like 4h per character. Obviously way less for dudes with less stuff like Margit, but ******* like Godfrey took all night.
 
To add to what DarkGrath was saying about Radahn, there are tons of descriptions backing up stars in Elden Ring being tied to literal fate.

Amber Starlight:
If the stars command our fates, then amber-hued stars must command the fates of the gods. Such is the belief that inspired the use of these shards to prepare a most special draught.

Astrologer Robes (Same description for all pieces of the set):
Worn by those who look to the cosmos above.
They read fate in the stars, and are said to be heirs of the glintstone sorcerers.
But alas, the night sky no longer cradles fate.

Celestial Dew:
Once upon a time, the stars of the night sky guided fate, and this is a recollection of those times.

Preceptor's Long Gown:
A long, bright blue gown with the movements of the stars drawn upon it.
Worn by the magic preceptors who served the Carian royals.
Glintstone sorcerers are the descendants of astrologers, a fact that the Carians remain aware of. Even if their fate has been long severed from the stars.

Telescope:
Astrology tool used by members of the Carian royal family.
A stolen part of a larger instrument.
Allows the viewer to better see faraway things.
During the age of the Erdtree, Carian astrology withered on the vine.
The fate once writ in the night skies had been fettered by the Golden Order.

Bearing all this in mind, I would say Radahn's feat involves halting the movement of literal stars which are directly connected to fate within the Elden Ring universe.
 
Dienomite22 said:
To add to what DarkGrath was saying about Radahn, there are tons of descriptions backing up stars in Elden Ring being tied to literal fate.

Amber Starlight:
If the stars command our fates, then amber-hued stars must command the fates of the gods. Such is the belief that inspired the use of these shards to prepare a most special draught.

Astrologer Robes (Same description for all pieces of the set):
Worn by those who look to the cosmos above.
They read fate in the stars, and are said to be heirs of the glintstone sorcerers.
But alas, the night sky no longer cradles fate.

Celestial Dew:
Once upon a time, the stars of the night sky guided fate, and this is a recollection of those times.

Preceptor's Long Gown:
A long, bright blue gown with the movements of the stars drawn upon it.
Worn by the magic preceptors who served the Carian royals.
Glintstone sorcerers are the descendants of astrologers, a fact that the Carians remain aware of. Even if their fate has been long severed from the stars.

Telescope:
Astrology tool used by members of the Carian royal family.
A stolen part of a larger instrument.
Allows the viewer to better see faraway things.
During the age of the Erdtree, Carian astrology withered on the vine.
The fate once writ in the night skies had been fettered by the Golden Order.

Bearing all this in mind, I would say Radahn's feat involves halting the movement of literal stars which are directly connected to fate within the Elden Ring universe.
Click to expand...
Finger Blade does too, albeit indirectly.
(Talks about how only those with fate can use it, which ties into Ranni's fate having been halted by Radahn).
 
Last edited:
It basically creates a large infinite-like space with severel Edtrees and filled with stars (and water) yes, wich serves as the final boss arena
 
Well, he does manifest what seems to be a nebulae and stars, in a place that was previously completely devoid of anything, and it definitely came from it given we see it vomit stardust at the start, but as with most things in this game, we'd probably get into "how big these stars" issue.
 
There is also this item:

A talisman engraved with a scene from a heroic tale.
Raises strength.

The mightiest hero of the demigods confronted the falling stars alone—and thus did he crush them, his conquest sealing the very fate of the stars.

eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com

Starscourge Heirloom | Elden Ring Wiki

Elden Ring Starscourge Heirloom Guide: Where to find Starscourge Heirloom, effects, how to use it, best combinations, tips and tricks for this Medallion.
eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com
 
It's also worth noticing the Beast itself looks like a draconic supercluster (I've seen comments saying it's pretty similar to the Laniakea Supercluster)
And reading the elden ring wikia, the Beasts's attacks include creating a black hole to teleport away while the hole explodes and has a move called Galaxy Cloud, wich "shoots out a long row of clouds that looks like a galaxy, which then explode one after the other"
 
DarkGrath said:
I have a few disagreements here.

"With this context, the descriptions state that these creatures are tied to Carian nobles- which also fits, given where Astel is."

I'm not totally certain what you're referring to, so do correct me if I'm mistaken. Your premise here is that the Fallingstar Beasts are called, well, "falling stars", and that they become Astels. From that, you're saying this description from Sellen is just reinforcement of the idea that the Fallingstar Beasts are connected to the Carian royal family, because there is an Astel close to the Cathedral of Manus Celes, which is connected to Ranni's questline?

I take a few issues with this interpretation. First of all, the proximity of one of the Astels to the Cathedral of Manus Celes does not mean that they are inherently connected, especially since there are multiple other unrelated locations with fights against Astels. Second of all, nothing I can recall suggests that the Carian royal family "studied" the Astels; what there is proof of, in the form of aforementioned aspects like the astrolabes, is that they did study the stars in the night sky. Third of all, Sellen doesn't simply use the term "star" without giving context on it, which is what a lot of my comment was focused on; she explicitly states that the stars being referred to are the ones that "alter the fate of the Carian royal family". Given how the Carian royal family is rooted in deep astrological practice, and astrology is a process where the stars in the night sky are used to determine the future, this is clearly referring to the actual stars and not the Astels.

Whatever way I try and look at it, it doesn't make sense for "star" in this context to be anything other than literal.

"Radahn "arresting their cycles" could well enough refer to holding them back from this world."

The phrasing would make no sense in that case. Sellen states, rather than anything else, that Radahn "arrested their cycles"; this is extremely specific phrasing, and distinct from saying anything along the lines of "killed" or "imprisoned" or even "held them back". I'm not sure how you'd derive "Radahn held them back from this world" from the phrasing, because... well, that's literally entirely different on a definitional level. It's not even a matter of weird interpretation, "arrested their cycles" just outright doesn't mean "he held them back".
Click to expand...
Nah, one of their forms is specifically named a Star. Deformed Star, I think? The creatures that resemble Astel, that hang from the ceiling. In fact I believe you're referring to these as "Astels", as there's only two Astels in the game, to my knowledge.

I think they are absolutely connected. Proximity is one thing. Astel is guarding the only way to access said place. This, of course, is also not taking into account the Carian family's already mentioned tie to Radahn- who does have a strong link with the Fallingstar Beasts and held them back.

You're kind of just making a leap there. You're assuming the meteors (or, as Armor believes, simply very small stars) are different than the stars mentioned elsewhere, when we have no real reason to do so. Astrology includes the study of all moving celestial objects, I believe. I don't see how the term implies exclusively stars as we know them in the real world.

Again, I don't understand how it wouldn't make sense. Arresting is to stop, cycles is a type of movement. Radahn is already flatly stated to be holding back the stars. "Arresting their cycles" is just a flowery means of referring to the same feat. The meaning is literally the same. People assume this refers to another thing and I don't really get why.

Arrest = stop or check (progress or a process)

Cycle = a series of events that are regularly repeated in the same order.

So no, I'm sorry, but you are actually just wrong here.
 
M3X said:
There is also this item:

A talisman engraved with a scene from a heroic tale.
Raises strength.

The mightiest hero of the demigods confronted the falling stars alone—and thus did he crush them, his conquest sealing the very fate of the stars.

eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com

Starscourge Heirloom | Elden Ring Wiki

Elden Ring Starscourge Heirloom Guide: Where to find Starscourge Heirloom, effects, how to use it, best combinations, tips and tricks for this Medallion.
eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com
Click to expand...
Btw this means the feat is about meteors given the "falling stars" statement and not the opposite
 
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