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- #761
Btw, should the Beast be likely 4-A or should I let it with "possibly"?
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Elden Ring Profiles
- Thread starter ArkhamDC06
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- elden ring
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Likely
He's At least 5-C, likely 4-A
I'm assuming Placidusaxx gets the same?
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Shrug, I wasn't doing Placid.
Ranni, Blaidd and Malekith was who I called, I have clips and items and what not for most dudes, but in terms of actually doing whole profiles, he wasn't me
Ranni, Blaidd and Malekith was who I called, I have clips and items and what not for most dudes, but in terms of actually doing whole profiles, he wasn't me
- 9,055
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- Thread starter
- #765
- 9,055
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- Thread starter
- #766
Btw, who's dealing with Marika/Radagon?
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Do you have clips for Radahn?Shrug, I wasn't doing Placid.
Ranni, Blaidd and Malekith was who I called, I have clips and items and what not for most dudes, but in terms of actually doing whole profiles, he wasn't me
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Are we keeping the At least 8-C tier for the weakest characters or are they going to be At least 8-B, possibly 7-C?
Also, what would be the speed and lifting strength?
Also, what would be the speed and lifting strength?
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Placid is an Elden Lord tho. That might have scaling merit.
Some yeah, I'll send laterish. Busy atm.
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Given I think lighting shit got murked, probably gotta actually calc something now.
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He fought Godfrey and lost, so that's something. He was the Elden Lord before the Elden Beast appeared.
Also it's really wacky the Elden Beast's justification is that he's superior to everyone yet people scale to him but whatever
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- Thread starter
- #772
People scale to the Beast by...well, scaling, mostly because they're relatively equal to each other and some are fought right before the Tarnished goes for the Beast itself so they can scale
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Wait what? Placid fought Godfrey? Sauce me on that.
Also good point, the giga top dudes should, at best just downscale, maybe we can go "At most [EB tier]" for them while pointing out while weaker, they still coul **** with Tarnished a bit who shortly after went on to kill EB? Or something, idk, just ideas.
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I remember on an item description but can't remember which
There is this video which is pretty neat ig. Almost every video on Placidusaxx says he got beaten by Godfrey, but I can't find an actual source on it.
According to the ancient dragon smithing stone, the stone used to be part of Placidusaxx's scales, and the stone themselves can slightly twist time. So limited time manip I guess?
It's implied crumbling farum azula was hit by a meteorite, from the great ruin sword. Could that have been the Elden Beast crashing into the lands between?
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Yeah, something like "Can fight endgame Tarnished, who shortly after fought the Elden Beast"
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I ask precisely for the source for the destruction of the Nokstella moon. Besides (but I'm waiting for the source) we have all the reasons to believe that the moon of Nokstella is not a moon like the ones in the sky, but a construction/artefact proper to the city. This is all I could find for Astel :
As far as Margit is concerned, he obviously does not scale with Radahn or the other demigods. At best it is Morgott who uses only a fraction of his power, at worst it is a simple projection.
As for Rennala, her madness obviously diminishes her power. It doesn't matter if she still has the "potential" to cast powerful spells, she won't cast them. That she does not appear injured on the screen is of no value. She lost the fight, which is why Ranni intervenes.
As for Radahn, if the justification for his 5-C is the night that occurs in his second phase then it is insufficient. The night comes after Jerren's speech (the herald of the Festival), everyone will agree that it is an aesthetic effect. In the same way, the night during the second phase of Radahn is an aesthetic effect to prepare the cinematic right after his death.
As for the Elden Best, if the justification for its 4-A is the final battle area then it is insufficient. There is no indication that the Elden Beast created this area. At best, it is a feat of the Greater Will.
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Morgott crawled out of the sewers and beat a young Radahn. The shade isn't the one that fought Radahn.
Godfrey killed the Fire Giants, but Marika was the one who killed the Fell God.
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This part is a bit odd, because she also explicitly calls him her other half in this same dialogue, and says they'll be shattered together, which seems to imply that they already were the same being, but at the same time she says he's yet to become her
The entire line is really contradictory, and given Radagon's entire course of actions (randomly appearing one day and conquering everything in the name of the golden order to then make peace with the Carian family and cement Marika's rule over the entire lands between, and then instantly abandoning everything to join Marika after being specifically picked by her, something noted to be really, really weird by everyone because she randomly chose a seemingly random champion who was already married), it actually makes more sense that they were always the same
We have a few reasons to think its an actual moon, firstly, Nokstella wasn't always underground, its very reasonable they had a moon, the artifact version (talisman) is even specifically just a replica made to represent the lost dark moon, secondly, we know the Lands Between has more than one moon, they're just not always visible (go to the moonlight alter at night and angle yourself toward the Erdtree when at the rise there, there's two moons), thirdly, we like, see the Dark Moon, its Ranni's moon both visibly and based on dialogue
There's no indication that the Elden Beast appearing, pulsing and shooting stuff up in the air which spreads and creates the arena, means it created the arena? There's skepticism and then there's just blatantly ignoring stuff for the sake of lower ratings, this is the latter. The Greater Will quite literally, can't intervene directly in the Lands Between, that's a major plot point even, and is the entire reason for the Elden Beast, Marika, Two Fingers, etc, so there's no reason to assume for some reason instead of the Elden Beast very visibly making the arena, it was the Greater Will
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It was either the Elden Beast or Astel. I think more evidence points to Astel since the Ruin Greatsword is mentioned as being enhanced with gravity power from the meteor that struck the city.
The moon is called "The former moon of Nokstella" and that it no longer exists. It being shattered and raining meteors fits with what Astel did to the Nox civilization.
Exactly. The most I'm willing to give the shade is that its possibly above Godrick since Morgott wanted to stop any Tarnished from targeting the weakest shard holder.
I can't speak for Udl, but from what I'm getting he's asking to basically not split her profil. Since her full strength isn't any worse than it used to be, it's just that she's insane and can't use it effectively anymore.
Radagon is a dwarf giant and is mentioned as sharing their curse.
The key aspect in my view are the D twins and their armor set. Which mentioned that they were people who had two bodies, two minds and one soul and the only place that accepted them was the Golden Order. Something that can contextually work to explain Radagon and Marika. They have two bodies (at one time), two minds but shared the same soul.
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I'm assuming you're basing the whole "he's a dwarf giant" on the Fire Giant whip description yeah? In which case I actually disagree with that, and view the line about it being a curse more literally since there's evidence to assume the description isn't saying he's a giant, and also that him and Marika were always the same being, but that's unimportant for now
If you wanted to tier Champion/pre Lord Radagon, and Lord Radagon separately for some reason, pre Lord Radagon's only explicit feat in lore is fighting Rennala, and her only scaling is fighting Radagon, so assuming Champion Radagon is weaker and non insane Rennala is stronger would just make the past keys of both of them unknown and likely just not worth having
However, under the assumption that Radagon and Marika were always the same being, or at least always shared the same soul (which basically has to be true for the events involving Radagon to make sense, since a lot of people mention it all being strange, except Goldmask who mentions everything making more sense when he learns Radagon is Marika), you'd be able to make a case that Radagon scaled to Marika even as a champion. Remembrances are the souls of a boss that is hewn into the Erdtree, said remembrances explicitly house the power of their owner (i.e the bosses power)
Which means that the soul of Marika/Radagon that both possessed would still house her level of power, and thus he could scale, unless we also assume Marika was weaker for some reason
Udlmaster
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No, it's not Morgott, it was Margit.
Check the staff, it's Margit, Morgott has the Sword.
And no, Morgott donned the name "Margit" when he left the sewers so no one would know who he was and so the shame upon the family wouldn't be revealed.
"A cloak of ragged fur worn about the exposed body of Margit, the Fell Omen.
Having slaughtered countless champions during the Shattering, the Fell Omen has become a horror to those who harbor ambitions for the Erdtree, or for Lordship."
It says here that it is Margit not Morgott that defeated the Champions such as Radahn.
We don't know if it was Godfrey who did it under her direction though.
When it says "Marika killed the Giant's fell God", that could mean she had him killed, which is more likely.
Either by Maliketh via the Rune of Death or via Godfrey when he was killing the rest of the Giants.
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Under that case it would still be Morgott's true body fighting a young Radahn and not a shade. Which was my main issue with your statement. The Margit we fight in Stormveil is just a shade of the actual person, which is why we fight him twice and he vanishes in gold rather than turns to ash like a normal death.
Why is it more likely? Marika is the true God and power comes from her, not Godfrey or her children. Her slaying the Fell God and Cursing the Fire Giants shows she has more to her than just talk.
Guess its up to the thread to see if we have a pre or post key for Radagon. If we don't then we would just make a non-insane Rennala "5-C, likely 4-A" like with some of the other higher tiers.
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Morgott used the name Margit to hide his identity so he could hunt down Tarnished by himself, the fact that he uses the staff instead of the sword has nothing to do with this identity, he sealed his sword into the staff out of shame because the sword came from his Omen blood, wich he utterly hates, the reason why he uses the sword against the Tarnished is because he sees the situation as "desperate" enough for him to unleash his real weapon
And in any case, as Qawsedf states above, the Margit we fight in Stormveil is not the real deal, just him projecting himself from Leyndell so he doesn't have access to all his power
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In this case, the idea that Astel did not destroy any moon is reinforced. We can indeed reasonably identify the moon of Nokstella with the Black Moon of Ranni. And there is no reason to think that this moon was ever destroyed. The moon is lost for the inhabitants of Nokstella in the same way that their sky is lost: they no longer have access to it.
Generally speaking, if Astel had really destroyed a moon and had hurled its fragments to the Earth, the consequences would have been a little more important than the disappearance of one or two cities.
Indeed, there is no indication that the Elden Beast ever created this arena. It is much more likely that this place was previously created by the Greater Will and that the Elden Beast transports us there. The Elden Ring is the Elden Beast, which powers the Erdtree and the Golden Order. And we would admit that the Elden Beast can trivially create dozens of Erdtree? This does not hold. This place is a creation/dominion of the Greater Will, which obviously did not just create all these trees and stars for our benefit, but did so long before. One can imagine Erdtree belonging to other worlds, but that is speculation.
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Nokstella certainly didn't lose their sky just because they were cast underground, in fact, Astel is noted as responsible for it
In contrast, we know that Nokstella was sealed for going against the Golden Order, which means these are two separate events, and they lost their sky, and thus moon, to Astel before that, which corroborates the possibility he destroyed it, and the moon is simply supernatural (noted as being magical multiple times, and hinted at as a form of an outer god) and came back
Yeah nothing here in this response makes sense, you say that the Elden Ring powers the Erdtree and Golden Order, but then say that means it can't create a realm with more Erdtrees? That's directly contradictory, you're saying its responsible for the tree but not strong enough to make more, this argument is illogical. It quite literally can not be something from the greater will, as outer gods can not interfere directly in the lands between which is the entire reason for the vassals, this is the reason the world isn't covered in rot from the rot god, returned to the original state of oneness by the frenzied flame, isn't covered in blood or whatever by the formless mother, etc. Assuming the Greater Will was capable of a feat on the level of making this realm appear in the lands between means that the entire system with the Two Fingers, Elden Beast and Marika is entirely pointless
You can see how this is nonsense, yes? Not only is your argument "the ring powers the tree and entire order and can warp reality, so it can't make a realm with more trees and it must be the greater will", it also requires all information we're told about the setting to be false
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I admit perfectly that the Moon is the form of an Outer God. That is why I refuse that it was destroyed by Astel.
- It would imply that Astel is much more than 5-C, the moon being much more than a moon.
- It would imply a much more extensive destruction than Nokstella. It should be a major event for the whole Lands Between, but it seems to have importance only for Nokstella.
- Obviously, the "reconstruction" of the moon also seems to be an event that nobody cares about. No mention anywhere.
Indeed. I say that it is not true that the Elden Ring can create dozens of Erdtree out of nowhere.
Absolutely not. Just because you can do one thing doesn't mean you can do it ten times at once.
Sure it is. The world is not covered in rot because the Outer Gods cannot deploy their powers without agents. But Greater Will is not without agents: the Elden Beast is its most powerful agent. In the same way that the Scarlet Rot spreads through Malenia, that the Formless Mother spreads her influence (? it is not clear what she wants) through Mogh, the Greater Will does so through the Elden Beast. In the same way that Mogh opens a portal, draws blood from the Formless Mother and then throws it in our faces, the Elden Beast opens a portal, transports us into his dimension and fights us. It is indeed the Elden Beast who makes the move. It is indeed Mogh who opens a portal. But it is the blood of the Formless Mother and it is the dimension created by the Greater Will.
Because the Greater Will did not make this dimension appear in the Lands Between. The Elden Beast transports us in this reality. In any case (whether the dimension is created by the Elden Beast or not) we are obliged to concede that we are no longer in the Lands Between.
As I just showed you, everything works.
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Is that one thing ever, at any point, implied to be a hard limit? If not, then there's no reason for assuming this illogical route of "the elden beast couldn't have done it, the Greater Will must have"
This is baseless however, the Mohg thing is him stabbing into the formless mother yes, this is explictly told to us, the Elden Beast however, does not have anything even remotely implying this, in fact, we have the opposite. We see it making the arena, not a portal to bring us there, upon appearing, it turns to ground into the water in its arena, then it spews out the stars and such and the arena is made, never do we see a portal being made, never is it implied it's bfring us. In fact the assumption it's bfring us is especially bad because the realm only exists for as long as the beast does.
Rather than use what we visibly see happen on screen, you'd like to assume we're brought to some never before mentioned by literally anyone involved on the Golden Order or anything, empty pocket dimension ocean that has stars in it, that the Greater Will made this way beforehand because reasons and the bfr just goes away if the Elden Beast dies?
This is way beyond a reach, you'd rather assume something never before hinted at or implied anywhere, over just using what we see happen on screen
So the Erdtree isn't in the Lands Between? And as I've said, nothing implies at all that this realm is made by the Greater Will outside of normal reality or something, when we see the Elden Beast doing it in the cutscene
You didn't show anything, no, you reinforced your illogical assumption with more unfounded assumptions never implied by anything in game to try and make it work
In fact the assumption that it's a pre-made realm by the Greater Will outside of reality (meaning it can act there), makes the entire premise of the game, and the Elden Beast boss fight make no sense. Marika was left strung up in the tree because they couldn't do anything else to her, if the ring could bfr to some realm where the Greater Will could do stuff on the level of making said realm, the Greater Will would have been able to directly intervene and mess with her, probably taking the ring to give to another after she betrayed it
And during our fight, wouldn't the Greater Will, which was about to lose its foothold on the Lands Between thanks to us, just smite us if we're in a place where it can use its powers on such a scale? Do you see why this assumption works less than just using what we visibly saw?
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I don't know why we're still discussing the Elden Beast stuff. Literally EVERYTHING we have points towards the Beast doing the stuff. The cutscene shows it ermerging from Radagon's body, taking it, turning it into a sword then fully appearing and then outright creating mist that warps the place. We literally see the mist COMING from the Beasts's...head (if you can call it like this). Nothing suggests anything about the Beast teleporting the Tarnished, if the mist had, say, engulfed the Tarnished and the screen went entirely black and suddenly we're in a different location, the doubt would have made sense but nothing of this, the mist COMES from the Beast and instantly warps the location. At best, we could say this is an illusion but that's it. Really, I see no reason why we continue discussing this, the Beast did it, end of the story.
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In a general, universal, timeless way, when someone does something you're not going to assume they can do 100 times better in 1 second for the sake of having a nice little "4-A" on a web page. The Erdtree is not just anything. It is not an insignificant object. It is a manifestation, a representation of the power of the Elden Ring and the Golden Order over the world. Yes, it is implicit that the Elden Ring cannot supply 100 Erdtree. Not even having all the fragments of the Elden Ring, by the way. So we are saying that the shattering of the Elden Ring caused the loss of grace in most of the lands but in fact the Elden Beast had the power to grow 10 Erdtree in each region of the Lands Between? This is absurd. As a result, we look to the entity directly above in the hierarchy: the Greater Will.
No. The power of the Elden Beast comes directly from the Greater Will. Ranni's power comes from the stars, the fire giant's power comes from his god, Malenia's power comes from the rot god, etc. There is nothing shocking about an agent of an Outer God using the power of an Outer God.
No, we don't see it "making the arena". We see him emitting light and then the environment has changed. That we return to the normal environment after his death is far from extravagant.
Infinitely more coherent than "the Elden Beast created a dimension with thousands of stars and fifty Erdtrees for fun", we agree. Because, I remind it, the stars and Erdtrees are useless.
The space of the Elden Beast arena is much bigger than the previous one. In any case, you are in a pocket-dimension.
What? Of course not. There is no indication that the Greater Will is not satisfied with Marika's punishment. Marika is literally crucified by the Elden Ring.
The player does not necessarily go against the Greater Will. Some of the endings involve the restoration of the Golden Order. But yes, more generally that is a good point. Also, I restrict my statement. The arena is not under the direct dominion of the Greater Will. But it is still a separate place, not created by the Elden Beast.
I don't see the point. Of course it's the Elden Beast doing it. The question is not whether it does, but what it does.
Indeed the Elden Beast "did it" we agree. Adding or removing a black screen is very weak to determine what is done. If there was a black screen, it could have been a simple loading or anything. It doesn't add or take away anything.
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Udlmaster
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Also, credence is given to this, as before the Shattering even occurred, Radagon somehow still gave Rennala the rune of Perfect Rebirth.
Udlmaster
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Because we fight Margit outside of the Capital.
We specifically fight his shade next to the monument where it declares how Margit won the battle and defended the Capital.
Because Marika outside of this 1 statement does not fight. She directs people to do her work, and it is more likely Godfrey killed the God while fighting the Giants, since he was already doing that.
Yeah, that's also why he took up the name Margit too, for the exact same reasons.
We also know he took it while in the Sewers too, since his Shackle is called "Margit's shackle" not "Morgott's shackle"
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Nothing said here explains why this is a good assumption, it's literally just "I think it shouldn't be able to make the trees so it must be the Greater Will with 0 mention of it"
They're granted power by their god, yes, the god isn't doing things through them though. This is explict, as Malenia's dislike of rot is the reason there isn't an order of rot, they just have the powers they can do stuff with, not that the god uses their powers because they have an agent.
We see him create the ocean on the floor, emit the stars, and create the arena, this is very, very blatant.
No, it's significantly less coherent as it requires a bunch of absurd assumptions, and the arena clearly wasn't created "for fun" but so the massive creature had the room to swim and fly around
Yes, the space it created is much bigger, the Elden Ring can manipulate space and also the Erdtree, it's a very cool power it has.
There, there is though. In fact it's directly stated that her betrayal needed her to be punished, but since she's a god she is stuck there instead of anything else
So who is it made by then, if its not the Elden Beast, and it's not the Greater Will, who, in this theory, made the arena that the Elden Beast can apparently bring us to
This is probably the last I'm going to respond to this, because I'm pretty sure no one else thinks this is some weird bfr to an unknown realm that has no explanation or mentions ever. It couldn't have been made by the Greater Will without several things not working, and a bunch of setting stuff being lies, and realizing that, you've switched off of it being the Greater Will's realm
Occam's razor applies here, it takes less assumptions to say "Hey, we see the Elden Beast make the arena into an ocean when it emerges, make Radagon into a sword, and spew the stars into the surroundings, so it's pretty clear he made the arena" than it is to try and explain it as some bfr to an unknown dimension made by an unknown being at an unknown period in time just to make it not a feat
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You are superbly ignoring what I am saying. The fact that the Elden Beast has the power to generate 50 Erdtree is absurd, period. It is independent of the stars (which are the reason for the claim to 4-A) but since it indicates that the Elden Beast did not create the Erdtree it implies that he did not create the stars.
Yes indeed. That's why it's the Elden Beast who teleports us. Just as it is Mogh who summons the blood of the Formless Mother. Just as it is Malenia who summons the power of her malediction. The situations are perfectly similar.
Emit the star ? In that case, your stars are ridiculously small. It is exactly the same kind of star that he throws at us during the fight.
Stars are useless. Erdtrees are useless. Two situations. The Elden Beast creates the arena from scratch to fight better, and decides to add trees and stars to make it look pretty. The arena already exists, already contains the Erdtree and the stars, the Elden Beast teleports us there to fight better. One is stupid, the other is coherent.
And the Elden Beast will have enlarged the internal space of the Erdtree to billions of kilometers in radius for absolutely nothing. And that's less illogical.
Nope. Greater Will did create this place. It's just not his realm. No "setting stuff" needs to be a lie. It is the very importance of the Erdtree that becomes a lie in the case where the Elden Beast can generate it at will.
Yes you probably prefer to say "the Elden Beast has expanded the internal space of the Erdtree by billions of kilometers while it only needs a few hundred meters to move, summoned 50 Erdtree with a snap of its finger to show how badass it is and populated the sky with a few thousand stars for good measure, but fortunately none of this will be used against the Tarshined and will be purely cosmetic. By the way, the Greater Will would be nice to inform its followers that it is useless to try to grow minor Erdtrees everywhere since the Elden Beast can produce mature ones endlessly."
Powerful Occam's razor.
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She was already with them for the speech before the battle. Her participating requires less assumptions and is backed by lore vs having someone else do it.
But there's sti) not an indication that Margit was a shade when he drove of Radahn and his forces.
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Wheres the popcorn
Udlmaster
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It doesn't, it assumes a lot more.
We only see Margit as a shade.
We see a Shade outside of the Capital in the exact same battlefield where he fought Radahn.
You have to be wilfully ignorant to say "Well, we just don't know."
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It assumes much less since we have a in-universe items that directly states she killed the god, we have in-universe speeches confirming she was at the battle and we know she was there when they learned the giant's forge wouldn't go out to curse the final Fire Giant.
It requires far more assumptions to assume she had someone else do it rather than she just do it herself. Especially when she was stated to do it and nothing else says otherwise.
Morgott crawled out of the sewers to protect Leyndell from falling to Radahn's army. Him taking up the name Margit to hide his identity is obvious, the sole point I'm arguing against is that it was his actual body battling Radahn and not a shade that's somewhere above Godrick's strength.
Why would he only have a shade fight a demigod directly attacking his city?
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Unrelated but the strategy guides for Elden Ring come put in later summer/fall. That will probably streamline the "official" boss order and provide context to stuff.
Though that's for a future CRT.
Though that's for a future CRT.
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So I finally jump sliced my way through all of my 100% Elden Ring playthrough so I can gif everything
So for the gifs
For a calc I did a thing for Radahn that can be looked at if anyone wants to tag a calc group member. As expected everything is High 4-C. From the look of it Radahn would need to move over four thousand stars to get a 4-B rating which just isn't possible unless I was off by a factor of 6 (though I will probably by off by like 1.5 - 2x)
So for the gifs
For a calc I did a thing for Radahn that can be looked at if anyone wants to tag a calc group member. As expected everything is High 4-C. From the look of it Radahn would need to move over four thousand stars to get a 4-B rating which just isn't possible unless I was off by a factor of 6 (though I will probably by off by like 1.5 - 2x)
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Wasnt Chariot busy with getting clips for everything?
