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Elden Ring Profiles

ArkhamDC06 said:
I mean, supercluster or not, there's nothing to suggest a tier 3 for the Beast
Click to expand...

Actually, no. If Radahn stops all the stars in the sky, as Udlmaster suggests, it's worth more than 4-C. You can see stars far away, and some of them are actually galaxies. So we can get Radahn to go much higher. Stopping the movement of the whole universe is worth a 3-C/3-B. In the same way for Ranni. If we interpret literally the sentence "I moved the stars infinitely far away so that they don't influence the world anymore" or something like that, we get an infinite movement in a finite time. That's 3-A. And everyone scales accordingly.

Yippee.
 
you might have a point, Ellbe, and thank you to taking my back and supporting me. Ellbe, i am Interested in what does Udlmaster and can you ask him to go to this thread and explain his argument?
 
btw, i would like to point out that the description of Stars of Ruin Says," When Lusat glimpsed into the primeval current, he beheld the final moments of a great star cluster, and upon seeing it, he too was broken."
i think that gives us some evidence for stars in elden ring to be the same sizes as their real counterparts.
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Hum is there anything to suggest he affected the whole universe?
Click to expand...
Well, no limits are specified. We talk about "stars" and "constellations". By doing a rough analysis, the farthest star visible to the naked eye is about 40 light years away, the Galaxy is about 50,000 light years in radius for 200 billion stars (low estimates), so that's 200*10^9/7.5*10^9=27 stars per LY^2 (the galaxy is essentially a plane), 40 LY in radius is 4800 LY^2 so 4800*27= 126,900 stars whose motion is stopped by Radhan assuming that it stops at the stars visible to the naked eye (without counting what is not a star, nova and galaxies).

I didn't reread it, idc, there are probably some mistakes.
 
Ellbekarym said:
Well, no limits are specified. We talk about "stars" and "constellations". By doing a rough analysis, the farthest star visible to the naked eye is about 40 light years away, the Galaxy is about 50,000 light years in radius for 200 billion stars (low estimates), so that's 200*10^9/7.5*10^9=27 stars per LY^2 (the galaxy is essentially a plane), 40 LY in radius is 4800 LY^2 so 4800*27= 126,900 stars whose motion is stopped by Radhan assuming that it stops at the stars visible to the naked eye (without counting what is not a star, nova and galaxies).

I didn't reread it, idc, there are probably some mistakes.
Click to expand...
that's a good calc, ellbe. looks like there is no limit specified? that's a big difference.
 
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Ellbekarym said:
Not only is there no evidence that he is handling real stars, but obvious meteors are counted as stars which is no longer just gratuitous but trivially wrong
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree here. In my view Radahn is holding back Voidbeasts after his training with the Nox mage in Raya. Them all being stars just has to much active contradictions in my view.

However the calc I did included different ends for everything, it's just that only one end was chosen since we decided to split the ratings.

Ellbekarym said:
Astel is not 5-C. No mention of him destroying any moons, and Nokstella's moon is either a reference to an Outer God or a city-specific object.
Click to expand...
While not a direct mention its heavily implied it was him, since he's the one who destroyed their skies and we know he entered in high enough to crash through Farum Azula. So it being there at one point and then it being gone at a later point is backed up.

But I do agree that it's debatable on if the moon is a third actual moon or some Nox recreation.

Ellbekarym said:
Elden Beast is not 4-A. There is no proof that it created a dimension filled with Erdtree and stars because it thought it was funny.
Click to expand...
Like with the other Tier 4 ratings the Elden Beasts' 4-A rating is not the default assumption, but an acknowledgement it may have preformed an actually feat.

So even if used, the Beast wouldn't be straight up 4-A.

Ellbekarym said:
Stopping the movement of the whole universe is worth a 3-C/3-B.
Click to expand...
Actually I only think that's 4-A. Or if it is tier 3 it's a very low 3-C. Since they can only scale to the GBE of the stars you have to move over a quadrillion of them to get out of 4-A afaik.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Yeah I agree here. In my view Radahn is holding back Voidbeasts after his training with the Nox mage in Raya. Them all being stars just has to much active contradictions in my view.

However the calc I did included different ends for everything, it's just that only one end was chosen since we decided to split the ratings.
Click to expand...
Unless I totally misunderstood your calc, it's just about counting shooting stars right? In that case, it is still useful, but replacing the stars by meteors (similar to the one that crashes on Limgrave).

Qawsedf234 said:
Actually I only think that's 4-A. Or if it is tier 3 it's a very low 3-C. Since they can only scale to the GBE of the stars you have to move over a quadrillion of them to get out of 4-A afaik.
Click to expand...

I didn't mention it because it's obvious from the position I've taken so far, but of course I don't believe that Radahn has manipulated 100,000+ stars. That's speculation on my part.
 
Ellbekarym said:
Unless I totally misunderstood your calc, it's just about counting shooting stars right? In that case, it is still useful, but replacing the stars by meteors (similar to the one that crashes on Limgrave).
Click to expand...
Yeah. For an alternate you would just need to calc the impact in Limgrave or Mt. Gelmer and just multiply it by 643.

Ellbekarym said:
but of course I don't believe that Radahn has manipulated 100,000+ stars. That's speculation on my part.
Click to expand...
I understand. I was just mentioning that even if he stopped literally every star in the sky it would only be 4-A. The universe would need quadrillions of stars to get past 4-A.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
It assumes much less since we have a in-universe items that directly states she killed the god, we have in-universe speeches confirming she was at the battle and we know she was there when they learned the giant's forge wouldn't go out to curse the final Fire Giant.

It requires far more assumptions to assume she had someone else do it rather than she just do it herself. Especially when she was stated to do it and nothing else says otherwise.
Click to expand...
It assumes rather than getting her Shadow, who is specifically crafted to be her body-guard so she doesn't have to fight or her literal bloodthirsty Warrior husband who is actively already killing all the giants didn't do it in her name.

Qawsedf234 said:
Morgott crawled out of the sewers to protect Leyndell from falling to Radahn's army. Him taking up the name Margit to hide his identity is obvious, the sole point I'm arguing against is that it was his actual body battling Radahn and not a shade that's somewhere above Godrick's strength.

Why would he only have a shade fight a demigod directly attacking his city?
Click to expand...
Because the only examples of Margit are shades and there is a shade in the exact location where he defended the City, in the same battlefield.

Furthermore, Godrick isn't comparable to Margit, even the one we fight at the start of the Game.

The game goes out of its way to show how pathetic Godrick is in every case he's brought up.

Even the god-damn Finger Maidens call him the "Runt of the pack".

During the fight he cuts off his own arm in frustration and grafts a Dragons head and still gets destroyed.

There's basically nothing even indicating in story the Tarnished had any problems with defeating them after Margit.

Additionally, let's say he was comparable, obviously weaker, but comparable.

What would be the problem in that, really? As a Shardbearer, he has a portion of the power from the Elden Ring, and we know where he stands.
 
Ellbekarym said:
don't think that's a good exemple. We clearly invoke lightning. We don't catch it "against its will", it comes to lodge itself in our hand.
Click to expand...
Yeah I sort of changed my mind on that after fighting the Lich Dragon. One of its moves is to jump in the air and backhand catch a lightning bolt to them swing around.

It's probably closer to just electricity manipulation rather than fast dragons.
 
Udlmaster said:
assumes rather than getting her Shadow, who is specifically crafted to be her body-guard so she doesn't have to fight or her literal bloodthirsty Warrior husband who is actively already killing all the giants didn't do it in her name.
Click to expand...
But it doesn't assume. We have a lore item that says she killed it. You're making an assumption she had someone else do it, not the other way around.
Udlmaster said:
What would be the problem in that, really? As a Shardbearer, he has a portion of the power from the Elden Ring, and we know where he stands.
Click to expand...
I feel like your comment here comes from a misunderstanding of my claim here.

I quite literally stated that Morgott should scale to Radahn. The only claim I was ever against was Godrick scaling to Radahn, since Godrick is trash and that Morgott wouldn't use a shade to fight Radahn's army rather than jump come out of the sewers and do it himself.
 
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Qawsedf234 said:
Yeah I sort of changed my mind on that after fighting the Lich Dragon. One of its moves is to jump in the air and backhand catch a lightning bolt to them swing around.

It's probably closer to just electricity manipulation rather than fast dragons.
Click to expand...
Its probably easier to try and argue you dodge fulgurbloom lightning for a speed feat, nothing about them implies they supernaturally call lightning, the description is just that they grow where it strikes a lot, and nothing implies we get the indicators in lore, so you can try to use that instead if you wanted lightning speed stuff
 
Paul_Frank said:
Its probably easier to try and argue you dodge fulgurbloom lightning for a speed feat, nothing about them implies they supernaturally call lightning, the description is just that they grow where it strikes a lot, and nothing implies we get the indicators in lore, so you can try to use that instead if you wanted lightning speed stuff
Click to expand...
Could still get Lightning Speed that way.
 
Also if we want to toss the Astel thing an alternate is rather easy to do now. All someone has to do is calculate the energy of the Limgrave meteor or the Mt. Gelmer starbeast crater and just multiply it by 643. Everyone from Radahn on would just scale to that.
 
Yeah. If we decide that the Nokstella moon was underground when Astel smashed it, it would be a Tier 7 or 6 feat due to size constraints.
 
It's pretty likely it wasn't underground when Astel smashed it, given the whole thing about him coming down from space in the first place, and there's no like, entry point he could have crashed through to reach underground.

If the Eternal City was already underground before he came, the descriptions mentioning them being stuck under a false night and waiting for the liege and the age of stars so they can escape that fate, wouldn't make sense, as they'd have had a massive, Astel shaped opening to escape, and see the real sky from and wouldn't have to wait for the meteor to hit Limgrave.

The most likely timeline is that he crashed down, probably hitting Farum Azula along the way, destroyed the moon and staged his attack on the Eternal City, and then the cities were banished underground for their transgressions and he just ended up going with it
 
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Anyways if we do decide to not go with going by this calc
  • Low End: 643 * 1.93928e+11 Joules = 124,695,704,000,000 Joules (7-C)
  • High End: 643 * 34,290,208,000,026.24 Joules =2.20486e+16 Joules (Low 7-B+)
The Limgrave meteor would probably push it to 7-A or 6-C considering how much deeper it is.
 
Paul_Frank said:
It's pretty likely it wasn't underground when Astel smashed it, given the whole thing about him coming down from space in the first place, and there's no like, entry point he could have crashed through to reach underground.

If the Eternal City was already underground before he came, the descriptions mentioning them being stuck under a false night and waiting for the liege and the age of stars so they can escape that fate, wouldn't make sense, as they'd have had a massive, Astel shaped opening to escape, and see the real sky from and wouldn't have to wait for the meteor to hit Limgrave.

The most likely timeline is that he crashed down, probably hitting Farum Azula along the way, destroyed the moon and staged his attack on the Eternal City, and then the cities were banished underground for their transgressions and he just ended up going with it
Click to expand...
This. Them being thrown underground was supposed to be punishment for defying the GW and the GO, if they had an opening big enough for a monster like Astel to be able to shatter a moon (even of tier 7 size), it would have made no sense for them to not try to escape
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
This. Them being thrown underground was supposed to be punishment for defying the GW and the GO, if they had an opening big enough for a monster like Astel to be able to shatter a moon (even of tier 7 size), it would have made no sense for them to not try to escape
Click to expand...
yes, i agree because throwing out the Moon bust feat over flawed reasoning is not reasonable and also would contradict with the lore.
 
Well at this point we have
  • A tier for everyone Radahn and after
  • We (mostly) have an agreement on the split keys
  • Speed is bad but subsonic until we find something should be fine. Plus Dark Souls have trash speed so its nothing major
  • We need to calc people's lifting strength
Once that last one is done I think we can make a thing for everyone barring the Tarnished, Margit, Rennala and Godrick since they need lower tier calcs.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Well at this point we have
  • A tier for everyone Radahn and after
  • We (mostly) have an agreement on the split keys
  • Speed is bad but subsonic until we find something should be fine. Plus Dark Souls have trash speed so its nothing major
  • We need to calc people's lifting strength
Once that last one is done I think we can make a thing for everyone barring the Tarnished, Margit, Rennala and Godrick since they need lower tier calcs.
Click to expand...
Them plus any secondary/minor characters like Adan Thief of Fire and so on who are defeated as soon as Liurnia
 
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