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Elden Ring Profiles

I don't think Radahn is manipulating stars. I will try to demonstrate this.

Udlmaster said:
He held the stars and constellations in place, this was directly stated.

I don’t really see how it’s up for interpretation.
Click to expand...

It is implied here that the sentence "held the stars and constellations in place" has an obvious meaning. But there is no such meaning. What is the meaning of "held the stars in place"? Physically it is not obvious. It is the movement of the Earth that gives the illusion of the movement of the stars in the sky. To "hold the stars in place to stop their movement" is physically strange, not to say inept, because the movement of the stars is actually the movement of the Earth, and it is the Earth that should be held in place. But if the Earth were to be held in place, the path of the sun would also have to be altered so that the cycle of day and night would continue, in other words, so that the sun would revolve around the Earth and not vice versa. In summary, for Radahn to stop the course of the constellations there are four possibilities:

1) Radahn changes the course of all visible stars in the sky so that they synchronize with the rotation of the Earth so that they appear motionless from the Earth.
2) Radahn stops the rotation of the Earth and pulls the Sun out of its orbit so that it rotates around the Earth in 24 hours.
3) The physics of Elden Ring is distinct from our world, the Earth is at the center of the universe, the stars revolve around it and Radahn literally stopped their rotation.
4) Interpreting Radahn's achievement in terms of physical mechanics is in itself irrelevant/ineffective.

1) and 2) are quite twisted. One would hardly understand the meaning of these acts. 3) is more elegant, but it excludes any classification since these stars would be different from those of our world. 4) obviously excludes any classification.
There is a much simpler and more coherent interpretation. It is said that the destiny of Caria's family as well as Ranni's destiny is written in the stars. That Radhan has immobilized the constellations by winning a "crushing victory" against the stars. That it is necessary to kill him so that Ranni's destiny can follow its course. When we talk about the stars, we are really talking about the powers (some Outer Gods and their servants) that dwell in the stars.
The "crushing victory" refers to the fact that Radahn has successfully driven the influence and agents of these Outer Gods out of the Lands Between. The immobilization of the constalletion means the cessation of their power over the Lands Between. Just as the power of the Golden Orden is tied to the power of the Greater Will, the power of Caria's family is tied to the Outer Gods who call the stars home.
Ranni's destiny is tied to the power of an Outer God living in the stars. It is necessary to kill Radahn so that this Outher God can once again act on the Lands Between and allow Ranni to pursue her destiny. Radahn's gravitational powers in themselves only concern the meteors that appear just after his death.
The precise nature of the "crushing victory" and how it occurred is not specified and remains open to discussion.
 
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Option 1 is the most fitting but it's still wrong in essence. The lore states Radahn stopped the stars, not that he synchronized them with the rotation.
Option 2 is wrong for the same reason, Radahn affected the stars and meteors, he did nothing to the Earth.
Option 3 depends entirely on what the lore says and nothing suggests ER's planet physics are that much different (unless we count how some people buildt a village above Mt Gelmir because lava works differently and even then, it could have been a long time ago or they used Magic to protect it and is more likely the old lava doesn't hurt you until you're directly in it video game stuff).
Option 4 is...well, pretty much the debate itself.

Also, the whole "stars = power" idea takes a hit when we remember the game makes it clear the Carian family, wich contacted the Dark Moon, depend on stars, real stars, to dictate their fate and obtain power. Saying the stars are in fact the Outer God itself would imply Radahn was able to block an Outer God, wich nothing supports in the game, he blacked the stars the meteors bringing the Fallingstar beasts. And again, the Carian family studied stars, using real life-like astronomy to do so.
As for the "crushing victory" part, it's just that he did it easily I think.
 
Ellbekarym said:
It is implied here that the sentence "held the stars and constellations in place" has an obvious meaning. But there is no such meaning. What is the meaning of "held the stars in place"? Physically it is not obvious.
Click to expand...
Yes? It is? It's very obvious. Stars move more than just their orbit around a Galaxy or other larger stars, they literally move, the constellations move, the formation of the stars in the universe will one day be an entirely new formation.

For example, the Zodiac, such as Cancer, Virgo, Leo, etc. Those Celestial formations one day won't be there because the stars change positions.

Ellbekarym said:
To "hold the stars in place to stop their movement" is physically strange, not to say inept, because the movement of the stars is actually the movement of the Earth, and it is the Earth that should be held in place.
Click to expand...
******* no????????????????????

The stars move, we just move more than they do because we're receiving imagery millions of light years away most of the time.

Ellbekarym said:
1) Radahn changes the course of all visible stars in the sky so that they synchronize with the rotation of the Earth so that they appear motionless from the Earth.
Click to expand...
He could very simply tidally lock all of them into a single place, not allowing the constellations to change.

The timeframe is uncertain, but possibly thousands of years have passed, and the Constellations would have taken a mildly different shape, depending on how close they are and many many other factors.

The Carian royal family relies on the star's to change because otherwise their fate become static like the stars.

Ellbekarym said:
2) Radahn stops the rotation of the Earth and pulls the Sun out of its orbit so that it rotates around the Earth in 24 hours.
Click to expand...
No, the world isn't tidally locked.

That would both kill all life on the planet and remove the day-night cycle, which we have.

Ellbekarym said:
3) The physics of Elden Ring is distinct from our world, the Earth is at the center of the universe, the stars revolve around it and Radahn literally stopped their rotation.
Click to expand...
No evidence to support that.

Ellbekarym said:
4) Interpreting Radahn's achievement in terms of physical mechanics is in itself irrelevant/ineffective.
Click to expand...
It's not because his magic directly translates to his potency and powers and there's several people more accomplished than him in Magic (Rennala) or more physically accomplished (Margit)


The rest is speculation so I'm not gonna argue because its irrelevant to this discussion.
 
Ellbekarym said:
I don't think Radahn is manipulating stars. I will try to demonstrate this.



It is implied here that the sentence "held the stars and constellations in place" has an obvious meaning. But there is no such meaning. What is the meaning of "held the stars in place"? Physically it is not obvious. It is the movement of the Earth that gives the illusion of the movement of the stars in the sky. To "hold the stars in place to stop their movement" is physically strange, not to say inept, because the movement of the stars is actually the movement of the Earth, and it is the Earth that should be held in place. But if the Earth were to be held in place, the path of the sun would also have to be altered so that the cycle of day and night would continue, in other words, so that the sun would revolve around the Earth and not vice versa. In summary, for Radahn to stop the course of the constellations there are four possibilities:

1) Radahn changes the course of all visible stars in the sky so that they synchronize with the rotation of the Earth so that they appear motionless from the Earth.
2) Radahn stops the rotation of the Earth and pulls the Sun out of its orbit so that it rotates around the Earth in 24 hours.
3) The physics of Elden Ring is distinct from our world, the Earth is at the center of the universe, the stars revolve around it and Radahn literally stopped their rotation.
4) Interpreting Radahn's achievement in terms of physical mechanics is in itself irrelevant/ineffective.

1) and 2) are quite twisted. One would hardly understand the meaning of these acts. 3) is more elegant, but it excludes any classification since these stars would be different from those of our world. 4) obviously excludes any classification.
There is a much simpler and more coherent interpretation. It is said that the destiny of Caria's family as well as Ranni's destiny is written in the stars. That Radhan has immobilized the constellations by winning a "crushing victory" against the stars. That it is necessary to kill him so that Ranni's destiny can follow its course. When we talk about the stars, we are really talking about the powers (some Outher Gods and their servants) that dwell in the stars.
The "crushing victory" refers to the fact that Radahn has successfully driven the influence and agents of these Outher Gods out of the Lands Between. The immobilization of the constalletion means the cessation of their power over the Lands Between. Just as the power of the Golden Orden is tied to the power of the Greater Will, the power of Caria's family is tied to the Outher Gods who call the stars home.
Ranni's destiny is tied to the power of an Outher God living in the stars. It is necessary to kill Radahn so that this Outher God can once again act on the Lands Between and allow Ranni to pursue her destiny. Radahn's gravitational powers in themselves only concern the meteors that appear just after his death.
The precise nature of the "crushing victory" and how it occurred is not specified and remains open to discussion.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure Radahn simply rotated the Earth to night, which is a 5-A feat.

I feel Radahn changing everything to night is likely intentional and not just a game mechanic that the devs just threw in cause why not.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I'm pretty sure Radahn simply rotated the Earth to night, which is a 5-A feat.

I feel Radahn changing everything to night is likely intentional and not just a game mechanic that the devs just threw in cause why not.
Click to expand...
Either rotated the Earth or moved the Celestial arrangements.

I.E moved the sun and Moon
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I'm pretty sure Radahn simply rotated the Earth to night, which is a 5-A feat.

I feel Radahn changing everything to night is likely intentional and not just a game mechanic that the devs just threw in cause why not.
Click to expand...
Seems like it, the question is will it be accepted
 
Last edited:
Udlmaster said:
Yes? It is? It's very obvious. Stars move more than just their orbit around a Galaxy or other larger stars, they literally move, the constellations move, the formation of the stars in the universe will one day be an entirely new formation.

For example, the Zodiac, such as Cancer, Virgo, Leo, etc. Those Celestial formations one day won't be there because the stars change positions.
Click to expand...

No, it's not obvious. Or rather, what seems obvious to me, is that by "stopping the movement of the stars" one implies the apparent movement of the stars around the Earth. This movement is due to the rotation of the Earth (around itself and around the sun). The real movement of the stars is invisible to the naked eye.

Udlmaster said:
******* no????????????????????

The stars move, we just move more than they do because we're receiving imagery millions of light years away most of the time.

He could very simply tidally lock all of them into a single place, not allowing the constellations to change.

The timeframe is uncertain, but possibly thousands of years have passed, and the Constellations would have taken a mildly different shape, depending on how close they are and many many other factors.

The Carian royal family relies on the star's to change because otherwise their fate become static like the stars.
Click to expand...

No, the fact that the stars are hundreds or thousands of LY away (thousands rather than millions, the Milky Way is 50,000 LY in radius) does not a priori diminish their perceived speeds. Simply, their positions and their perceived speeds are those of hundreds or thousands of years ago. But this is off-topic because, again, I think that when we talk about the motion of the stars we are talking about the motion visible from the point of view of the Earth aka the one caused by the motion of the Earth itself.

  • Well, well... Seluvis is not a name I ever wanted to hear again... But, fine. If it will help you, my apprentice, I offer my knowledge. The stars alter the fate of the Carian royal family. And the fate of your mistress, Ranni. But long ago, General Radahn challenged the swirling constellations, and in a crushing victory, arrested their cycles. Now, he is the force that repulses the stars. If General Radahn were to die, the stars would resume their movement. And so, too, would Ranni's destiny.
It is said that he stopped their cycles. If we talk about the movement of the stars within the constellations, it doesn't make sense because these movements are not cyclical. What is cyclic is the movement of the constellations around the polar axis. It is this movement (as well as the movement of the planets) that is studied by astrologers, who think they can read destiny. This seems to me to be solid enough to say that we are talking, at least in priority, about the apparent movement of the stars caused by the rotation of the Earth. This is why stopping this movement implies either stopping the movement of the Earth (my point 2) or synchronizing them with the Earth's rotation so that they appear immobile (my point 1). From this point of view, we can imagine that Radahn also stops their intrinsic motion, but anyway we are already physically in trouble: to do this will imply to accelerate the stars well beyond the speed of light. This would imply much higher than 4-A

Udlmaster said:
No, the world isn't tidally locked.

That would both kill all life on the planet and remove the day-night cycle, which we have.
Click to expand...

That's why I said that it would be necessary to also alter the course of the Sun so that the day-night cycle remains. But yes, it is very far-fetched.

Udlmaster said:
No evidence to support that.
Click to expand...

Indeed it is. But this is the most elegant by far. If we absolutely have to say that Radahn stops the movement of all the stars in the sky, I would lean towards this option.

Udlmaster said:
It's not because his magic directly translates to his potency and powers and there's several people more accomplished than him in Magic (Rennala) or more physically accomplished (Margit)
Click to expand...

? I didn't understand. Surely, Rennala is a better mage. She hasn't mastered gravitational magic though. What makes you say that Margit is physically stronger than Radahn?

Udlmaster said:
The rest is speculation so I'm not gonna argue because its irrelevant to this discussion.
Click to expand...

Of course not: if we exclude any literal interpretation of "stopping the movement of stars", it is perfectly relevant.
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Also, the whole "stars = power" idea takes a hit when we remember the game makes it clear the Carian family, wich contacted the Dark Moon, depend on stars, real stars, to dictate their fate and obtain power. Saying the stars are in fact the Outer God itself would imply Radahn was able to block an Outer God, wich nothing supports in the game, he blacked the stars the meteors bringing the Fallingstar beasts. And again, the Carian family studied stars, using real life-like astronomy to do so.
As for the "crushing victory" part, it's just that he did it easily I think.
Click to expand...

Pushing back the influence of an Outer God (and more generally of stellar horrors like Astel) does not imply defeating them. We know that there is a direct link between the stars and at least one Outer God, as well as a host of space abominations. It is hard to imagine, whether Radahn actually stopped the movement of the stars or not, that this would not involve battling the power or agents of this Outer God.
 
Haven't kept up with this in months, what exactly are we going with generally with the tiering in terms of the high tiers.

Saw some discussion about tier 4 and tier 5 on the last page is that solid or still up for discussion
 
Dalesean027 said:
Haven't kept up with this in months, what exactly are we going with generally with the tiering in terms of the high tiers.

Saw some discussion about tier 4 and tier 5 on the last page is that solid or still up for discussion
Click to expand...

This is still under debate.

At the rate it's going, the day we finish the first DLC will come out and put everything back on the table.
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
At this point, this almost seems reasonable. I mean, we can't even make low level profiles since we should make the Tarnished themselves among them
Click to expand...
Lol I genuinely hope this still isn't being only discussed a year from now and that we at least have some structure and general foundation that's been agreed upon
 
Ellbekarym said:
No, it's not obvious. Or rather, what seems obvious to me, is that by "stopping the movement of the stars" one implies the apparent movement of the stars around the Earth. This movement is due to the rotation of the Earth (around itself and around the sun). The real movement of the stars is invisible to the naked eye.
Click to expand...
No, they don't. If I say "I'm going to stop a train" that doesn't mean I imply the movement of the train relative to you.

And yes, while almost imperceptible, was still measured.

For example, the precession of the equinoxes, something that is almost entirely undetectable, as the axis rotation of the Earth's cycle is around 26,000 years, was discovered in 200 BCE by Hipparchus.

These things are known to Pre-Modern societies, they are not new discoveries.

And that's not even taking into account the fact that said societies did not base their entire understanding of society on the stars and draw magic from it, with the study of the Stars and charting their course being the primary focus of the Magical academy.

Further compounded by the fact that everyone is also Immortal and cannot die, their collective knowledge on the stars would be well and above sufficient to understand this Hellenistic discovery.

Ellbekarym said:
No, the fact that the stars are hundreds or thousands of LY away (thousands rather than millions, the Milky Way is 50,000 LY in radius) does not a priori diminish their perceived speeds.
Click to expand...
What? It doesn't matter, our understanding of the Universe, which is how we're determining Elden Ring's as a baseline, has stars that are millions of light years away.

Secondly, no, the Milky Way isn't 50,000 Light years in radius, more recent calculations place it at 129,000 light years with an estimated 100-400 Billion stars.

Ellbekarym said:
Simply, their positions and their perceived speeds are those of hundreds or thousands of years ago.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that doesn't matter, because perceived Celestial events can occur faster than the speed of light.

We can see these things. You are trying to limit fiction by Real world logic.

Ellbekarym said:
But this is off-topic because, again, I think that when we talk about the motion of the stars we are talking about the motion visible from the point of view of the Earth aka the one caused by the motion of the Earth itself.
Click to expand...
There's no evidence to support this, and going by historical understandings, also disproves this because WE already know by the time of the Romans that the Fixed stars can move.

You are speculating and I do not have to respond to it.

Ellbekarym said:
It is said that he stopped their cycles. If we talk about the movement of the stars within the constellations, it doesn't make sense because these movements are not cyclical.
Click to expand...
What??????????????

Everything cycles around something, only the most massive things in the existence don't circle around things, this is such a baby concept to understand.

Planets circle around Stars, Stars and their Solar Systems circle around Supermassive Black Holes.

Yes, constellations have a cycle. The stars that make up the constellations move, and would have moved after thousands of years of observing them.

Furthermore, if it was merely the view of them moving and therefore the Planet that is being affected, not the Stars, why wouldn't they say he locked in the planet instead?

They were very specific about the stars themselves being affected, not the planet, and we have no evidence or statements to say that it is the planet and the perception being altered.

In fact, given that there's an entire society of Astronomers, they would have realised this and acted accordingly, but no, they don't tell us anything, we know its the stars being affected, not the perception, its why the stars and meteorites move when Radahn is killed.
Ellbekarym said:
That's why I said that it would be necessary to also alter the course of the Sun so that the day-night cycle remains. But yes, it is very far-fetched.
Click to expand...
Such theories are not supported by the evidence provided.
Ellbekarym said:
I didn't understand. Surely, Rennala is a better mage. She hasn't mastered gravitational magic though. What makes you say that Margit is physically stronger than Radahn?
Click to expand...
He literally stabbed him in the shoulder as Margit and knocked him to the floor.
 
Well Morgott did defeat Radahn when he tried to invade Leyndell so...(we're not sure they met on the battlefield but since Radahn was utterly powerful and liked to lead his troops by himself, it's likely it happened)
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Well Morgott did defeat Radahn when he tried to invade Leyndell so...(we're not sure they met on the battlefield but since Radahn was utterly powerful and liked to lead his troops by himself, it's likely it happened)
Click to expand...
I'm just saying that Morgott didn't fight a peak Radahn, and rather fought a younger one
 
Maybe, I mean, do we know when exactly did Radahn became giant? Was it before or after the Shattering? Judging from what we know, it's likely before

Then again, the pics indeed shows him to be pretty small it seems (that or the angle is very weird)
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Maybe, I mean, do we know when exactly did Radahn became giant? Was it before or after the Shattering? Judging from what we know, it's likely before

Then again, the pics indeed shows him to be pretty small it seems (that or the angle is very weird)
Click to expand...
We don't know have any solid clue when Radahn became giant. All we know is that he grew giant because of his genes or something, which made him go learn gravity magic for his horse in the academy, I don't think it's clear if he studied under his mother or not, but I don't he'd react well if he discovered the academy locked away his mom, but then again, that's kind of an assumption.

Though even if he was Morgott sizex when he invaded Leyndell, he's still be comically large for his horse. It ain't solid evidence but there's that
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I don't think it's clear if he studied under his mother or not, but I don't he'd react well if he discovered the academy locked away his mom, but then again, that's kind of an assumption.
Click to expand...
Nah some of the gravity spells in the game state he studied under an Alabaster Lord
Emirp sumitpo said:
Though even if he was Morgott sizex when he invaded Leyndell, he's still be comically large for his horse. It ain't solid evidence but there's that
Click to expand...
Well at least Morgott should be relatively comparable to him to a degree
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Tbf, I'm pretty sure that's a younger Radahn, especially with how small he is in the image, when we know canonically Radahn is far larger than Morgott
Click to expand...
He's laying on his back and Margit is huge himself. If you were to take Radahn's giant model and put Margit on top of him to replicate that screen shot, it would line up.

They're both huge.
 
Even if he's lying on his back, you can tell from the proportions alone that Radahn isn't as broad as current model is, and Radahn's model is FAR chunkier than Morgott is.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Even if he's lying on his back, you can tell from the proportions alone that Radahn isn't as broad as current model is, and Radahn's model is FAR chunkier than Morgott is.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying they're equal, I'm saying that Radahn isn't as small as you think he is, Margit very large himself, considering he towers over the Player character.

And also, we already know Radahn was a master of Gravity magic by this point, because his sickly horse was the reason he learned it, so he could keep riding them no matter what.

This would take place long after the fact given he's much bigger than Margit there, so he's already most likely at his peak by this point.
 
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