Elden Ring Profiles

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'm not saying they're equal, I'm saying that Radahn isn't as small as you think he is, Margit very large himself, considering he towers over the Player character.

And also, we already know Radahn was a master of Gravity magic by this point, because his sickly horse was the reason he learned it, so he could keep riding them no matter what.

This would take place long after the fact given he's much bigger than Margit there, so he's already most likely at his peak by this point.

I'm not saying Radahn is small, I'm just saying we can't compare the Radahn Morgott fough to the Radahn we see in the cinematic, AKA his strongest.

We don't know when Radahn started learning gravity magic.

Also "most likely at his peak" is a stretch. Radahn is roughly the size of Morgott in the picture, and going what we see for the size comparisons, Radahn is several times larger than Morgott. That is a huge size difference. And you can even see that Leonard alone is around the size of Morgott himself. So it's hard to say Radahn was too big leonard by that point

 

[Ellbekarym]

No, they don't. If I say "I'm going to stop a train" that doesn't mean I imply the movement of the train relative to you.

No, it implies stopping the movement of the train relative to you. When we talk about a movement in the sky without further precision, we do so in relation to the Earth's frame of reference, which is the frame of reference of the experience common to all. When we talk about the Sun's path, we are really talking about the Earth's path around the Sun (which is translated by the apparent movement of the Sun around the Earth) and not the Sun's path around the galactic center. If a fictional character, in a universe physically similar to ours, declares that he can "stop the Sun's course" no one will claim that it is the Sun's motion around the galactic center. The real meaning of the statement, namely to stop the rotation of the Earth, is obvious.

And yes, while almost imperceptible, was still measured.

For example, the precession of the equinoxes, something that is almost entirely undetectable, as the axis rotation of the Earth's cycle is around 26,000 years, was discovered in 200 BCE by Hipparchus.

As you just said, the precession of the equinoxes is caused by the peridonic change of the Earth's rotation axis. In other words, it is an apparent movement of the stars caused by a real movement of the Earth. Stopping the precession of the equinoxes would be equivalent to stopping the subtle change of the Earth's rotation axis, not the motion of the stars. Very good example, thank you.

Regarding the intrinsic motion of the stars, we owe it to Edmond Halley in 1698: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmond_Halley

Otherwise, during almost the whole human history, still today in the common language and in astrology, the motion of the stars and even more the cycle of constellations concerns the apparent motion of the stars due to the motion of the Earth.

These things are known to Pre-Modern societies, they are not new discoveries.

This is therefore not true.

What? It doesn't matter, our understanding of the Universe, which is how we're determining Elden Ring's as a baseline, has stars that are millions of light years away.

The visible stars in the sky are not very far away. If you see something in the sky from far away, it is probably a galaxy and not a star. But if you imply that Radahn stopped the motion of all the stars in the entire universe, then that puts him in terms of joules well above tier 4. We must be in the 3-B range to literally stop the entire universe. This seems to me to be a perfectly absurd tier.

Yeah, that doesn't matter, because perceived Celestial events can occur faster than the speed of light.

We can see these things. You are trying to limit fiction by Real world logic.

The very fact of giving Radahn a tier on the basis of his celestial manipulations implies a compairaison with "real world logic". Otherwise, one can declare that the stars of Elden Ring are not the same as ours, that the physics is not the same as ours and classify it as "Unknown" that is fine with me. In reality, this is what will most certainly happen. We will have a Radhan 6-C (or more/less depending on the calc of the meteor fall) with a "maybe higher with gravitational power over the stars".

There's no evidence to support this, and going by historical understandings, also disproves this because WE already know by the time of the Romans that the Fixed stars can move.

You are speculating and I do not have to respond to it.

As I have shown, this is not true. I repeat myself, but talking about the motion of the stars without more precision refers to their apparent motion. Moreover, we can add another argument:

• Ah, good. I was waiting for you. What a sick way to fight, eh. The glory of the clash is shared, by Radahn and you. And hah! Did you see that, afterwards? A falling star, right before our eyes! I can’t fathom how Radahn was holding back something of that scale. He was a living legend, if ever I saw one. And, the path has now been cleared. To Nokron, where Ranni’s fate will be decided. Let’s meet where the falling star bit the earth. We’ll take up our swords once more. For mistress Ranni.

Blaidd is surprised by the size of the meteor. Obviously, either Blaidd thinks the stars are very small or he thinks Radahn was not holdings stars.

What??????????????

Everything cycles around something, only the most massive things in the existence don't circle around things, this is such a baby concept to understand.

Planets circle around Stars, Stars and their Solar Systems circle around Supermassive Black Holes.

Yes, constellations have a cycle. The stars that make up the constellations move, and would have moved after thousands of years of observing them.

Indeed, the constellations have a cycle. The cycle around the polar axis, caused by the Earth's rotation. It makes no sense to talk about the cycle of constellations outside of this cycle. The stars composing the constellations do not move at the same speed around the galactic center. At no time do the constellations make a complete cycle around the galactic center: they disintegrate much earlier.

If you type "constellation cycle" on Google or Wikipedia, they will tell you about the cycle of constellations around the polar axis. There is no need to twist this sentence.

Furthermore, if it was merely the view of them moving and therefore the Planet that is being affected, not the Stars, why wouldn't they say he locked in the planet instead?

They were very specific about the stars themselves being affected, not the planet, and we have no evidence or statements to say that it is the planet and the perception being altered.

In the same way that if I tell you "the Sun rises" you are not going to accuse me of thinking that the Sun revolves around the Earth. And you're not going to say "well, you were very specific about the fact that it was the Sun that was rising".

But I think there is a misunderstanding. I am not saying that Radahn stopped the movement of the Earth: I don't believe it. I am saying that all literal interpretations of "he stopped the stars" are absurd and therefore should not be interpreted literally. I have already expressed what I believe to be the correct interpretation.

In fact, given that there's an entire society of Astronomers, they would have realised this and acted accordingly, but no, they don't tell us anything, we know its the stars being affected, not the perception, its why the stars and meteorites move when Radahn is killed.

There is nothing special to realize, except that the expression "stop the cycle of constellations" is not to be taken literally.

He literally stabbed him in the shoulder as Margit and knocked him to the floor.

This is very insufficient. You can't justify that one character is stronger than another because he has put him in trouble once, based on an ambiguous illustration. It just shows that their strengths are not very different, but we already knew that.

 

[Ellbekarym]

I'm not saying Radahn is small, I'm just saying we can't compare the Radahn Morgott fough to the Radahn we see in the cinematic, AKA his strongest.

We don't know when Radahn started learning gravity magic.

Also "most likely at his peak" is a stretch. Radahn is roughly the size of Morgott in the picture, and going what we see for the size comparisons, Radahn is several times larger than Morgott. That is a huge size difference. And you can even see that Leonard alone is around the size of Morgott himself. So it's hard to say Radahn was too big leonard by that point

I don't think the size judgments are valid. If you look at the soldiers right next to them, they are almost the same size as Morgott. This illustration obviously does not respect ingame sizes. It's not enough to declare Morgott's physical strength superior though.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I don't think the size judgments are valid. If you look at the soldiers right next to them, they are almost the same size as Morgott. This illustration obviously does not respect ingame sizes. It's not enough to declare Morgott's physical strength superior though.

Not exactly. They're closer to the camera, and Morgott himself is crouching noticeably

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I vote our first profile being the Soldier of Godrick. Get God out of the way first.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I vote our first profile being the Soldier of Godrick. Get God out of the way first.

Easy tier 0

 

[Udlmaster]

As you just said, the precession of the equinoxes is caused by the peridonic change of the Earth's rotation axis. In other words, it is an apparent movement of the stars caused by a real movement of the Earth. Stopping the precession of the equinoxes would be equivalent to stopping the subtle change of the Earth's rotation axis, not the motion of the stars. Very good example, thank you.

Regarding the intrinsic motion of the stars, we owe it to Edmond Halley in 1698: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmond_Halley

Otherwise, during almost the whole human history, still today in the common language and in astrology, the motion of the stars and even more the cycle of constellations concerns the apparent motion of the stars due to the motion of the Earth.

"Hipparchus of Nicaea (/hɪˈpɑːrkəs/; Greek: Ἵππαρχος, Hipparkhos; c. 190 – c. 120 BC) was a Greek astronomer, geographer, and mathematician. He is considered the founder of trigonometry,[1] but is most famous for his incidental discovery of precession of the equinoxes."

3 seconds. 3 ******* seconds.

No, it implies stopping the movement of the train relative to you.

No it ******* doesn't. That's connotation that no would would ever add. I could also stop a tornado by your logic by putting you infront of it as Tornados appear still while they are moving towards you.

This is a false extrapolation.

When we talk about the Sun's path, we are really talking about the Earth's path around the Sun (which is translated by the apparent movement of the Sun around the Earth) and not the Sun's path around the galactic center. If a fictional character, in a universe physically similar to ours, declares that he can "stop the Sun's course" no one will claim that it is the Sun's motion around the galactic center. The real meaning of the statement, namely to stop the rotation of the Earth, is obvious.

He doesn't stop. Not only is there a day-night cycle, but the ******* stars move across the sky even before Radahn is dead.

Like if you actually bothered to play the game, you'd notice the stars till move across the sky while Radahn is alive, meaning it's not the ******* Axis of the planet he's stopped.

Otherwise, he'd have to be subconsciously moving all the stars in the universe around the axis of the Realms Between while the planet remains tidally locked.

The very fact of giving Radahn a tier on the basis of his celestial manipulations implies a compairaison with "real world logic". Otherwise, one can declare that the stars of Elden Ring are not the same as ours, that the physics is not the same as ours and classify it as "Unknown" that is fine with me. In reality, this is what will most certainly happen. We will have a Radhan 6-C (or more/less depending on the calc of the meteor fall) with a "maybe higher with gravitational power over the stars".

Those who do not track. You can both have FTL speeds and have someone have "Celestial manipulations".

You have no evidence to say they're not the same, the only aspect that is different is the fact we saw them move after Radahn died.

This is a common thing in fiction, like how Hercules' constellation in the Disney Hercules movie was seen instantly, not having to wait thousands of years.

Indeed, the constellations have a cycle. The cycle around the polar axis, caused by the Earth's rotation. It makes no sense to talk about the cycle of constellations outside of this cycle. The stars composing the constellations do not move at the same speed around the galactic center. At no time do the constellations make a complete cycle around the galactic center: they disintegrate much earlier.

Why? Why does it make no sense for a society of Astronomers to understand the progression though the Galaxy?

You're arbitrarily making statements to limit the possibility of something that disagrees with your notions.

But I think there is a misunderstanding. I am not saying that Radahn stopped the movement of the Earth: I don't believe it. I am saying that all literal interpretations of "he stopped the stars" are absurd and therefore should not be interpreted literally. I have already expressed what I believe to be the correct interpretation.

Proponderence of evidence is against you. Your entire stick here is skepticism and we don't have to justify it.

I do not have to answer your ever absurd argument about why it cannot be, because all the information shows is that he can.

There is nothing special to realize, except that the expression "stop the cycle of constellations" is not to be taken literally.

For your entire argument to work, you have to assume:

1. Blaidd is lying/hyperbolic.
2. Ranni is lying/hyperbolic.
3. Selivus is lying/hyperbolic.
4. Sellen is lying/hyperbolic.
5. The Carian Royal family is lying/hyperbolic.
6. The Festival of Radahn is lying/hyperbolic.
7. The Narrator for the game and items is lying/hyperbolic.
8. Our quest to kill Radahn was pointless and we did it for the lols because everyone was misinformed or lying.

All of which is not shown in the game, the game absolutely treats their statements as correct.

Going Occums razor, your argument is so far out there it's absurd, and I'm not going to keep going around in circles for your arbitrary skepticism nonesense.

This is very insufficient. You can't justify that one character is stronger than another because he has put him in trouble once

Yes, we can. One time fights have a lot.

based on an ambiguous illustration.

It's from the Opening Cinematic, it's entirely valid. Have you even bothered to play the game?

It just shows that their strengths are not very different, but we already knew that.

So, everything you said before was pointless because your were disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, right.

And no, that's not made obvious.

 

[Ellbekarym]

"Hipparchus of Nicaea (/hɪˈpɑːrkəs/; Greek: Ἵππαρχος, Hipparkhos; c. 190 – c. 120 BC) was a Greek astronomer, geographer, and mathematician. He is considered the founder of trigonometry,[1] but is most famous for his incidental discovery of precession of the equinoxes."

3 seconds. 3 ******* seconds.

Pedagogy is the art of repetition. So I will repeat myself. The precession of the equinoxes is caused by the movement of the Earth (the fluctuation of its axis of rotation). I will repeat it again: it is the motion of the Earth that causes the precession of the equinoxes. The stars could be perfectly still and the precession of the equinoxes would still take place, because it is an apparent motion. In other words, your example goes in my direction. It is one more example of how the terrestrial motion makes a celestial motion perceived. The intrinsic motion of the stars was discovered by Edmond Halley in, I'm sorry I made a mistake, 1718 and not 1698:

"In 1716, Halley suggested a high-precision measurement of the distance between the Earth and the Sun by timing the transit of Venus. In doing so, he was following the method described by James Gregory in Optica Promota (in which the design of the Gregorian telescope is also described). It is reasonable to assume Halley possessed and had read this book given that the Gregorian design was the principal telescope design used in astronomy in Halley's day.[56] It is not to Halley's credit that he failed to acknowledge Gregory's priority in this matter. In 1717–18 he discovered the proper motion of the "fixed" stars (publishing this in 1718)[57] by comparing his astrometric measurements with those given in Ptolemy's Almagest. Arcturus and Sirius were two noted to have moved significantly, the latter having progressed 30 arc minutes (about the diameter of the moon) southwards in 1800 years.[58]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmond_Halley

I repeat myself a fourth time: you are wrong. Hipparchus did not discover the proper motion of the stars, he discovered the precession of the equinoxes which is an apparent motion caused by the variation of the Earth's rotation axis.

No it ******* doesn't. That's connotation that no would would ever add. I could also stop a tornado by your logic by putting you infront of it as Tornados appear still while they are moving towards you.

This is a false extrapolation.

This is not true. When you say "I stop a train" you stop it in the terrestrial reference frame. You are not going to say that the train is not stopped because it continues to move around the center of the Earth, around the Sun, around the galactic center etc. This is what I meant by "your frame of reference", sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

He doesn't stop. Not only is there a day-night cycle, but the ******* stars move across the sky even before Radahn is dead.

Like if you actually bothered to play the game, you'd notice the stars till move across the sky while Radahn is alive, meaning it's not the ******* Axis of the planet he's stopped.

Otherwise, he'd have to be subconsciously moving all the stars in the universe around the axis of the Realms Between while the planet remains tidally locked.

That would be absurd, wouldn't it? I agree perfectly. And that's what I'm pointing out: any literal interpretation of "he stops the stars" borders on the absurd.

Why? Why does it make no sense for a society of Astronomers to understand the progression though the Galaxy?

You're arbitrarily making statements to limit the possibility of something that disagrees with your notions.

I repeat myself again. It doesn't make sense because talking about the cycle of constellations outside the apparent cycle caused by the rotation of the Earth around its axis doesn't make sense in itself. You can be a fool or a genius, it will not make more or less sense. There is no cycle of constellations around the galactic center. It does not exist. The constellations are an arbitrary aggregate of stars that exist only from the point of view of the Earth. No constellation goes around the galactic axis because they are not a unified object. The different stars that make them up move at different speeds in the galaxy.

"Constellation cycle" refers to the apparent movement of the constellations around the polar axis. All the time, everywhere, universally. Because there is no other.

Proponderence of evidence is against you. Your entire stick here is skepticism and we don't have to justify it.

I do not have to answer your ever absurd argument about why it cannot be, because all the information shows is that he can.

It's not true. I think I've shown it enough.

For your entire argument to work, you have to assume:

1. Blaidd is lying/hyperbolic.
2. Ranni is lying/hyperbolic.
3. Selivus is lying/hyperbolic.
4. Sellen is lying/hyperbolic.
5. The Carian Royal family is lying/hyperbolic.
6. The Festival of Radahn is lying/hyperbolic.
7. The Narrator for the game and items is lying/hyperbolic.
8. Our quest to kill Radahn was pointless and we did it for the lols because everyone was misinformed or lying.

All of which is not shown in the game, the game absolutely treats their statements as correct.

Going Occums razor, your argument is so far out there it's absurd, and I'm not going to keep going around in circles for your arbitrary skepticism nonesense.

Not so. If A says "the Sun is rising" and B says "the Sun is rising", all you need to do is interpret the phrase "the Sun is rising" correctly so that A and B don't need to lie or be hyperbolic.

On the other hand, you are the one who needs Sellen to say something absurd when talking about the cycle of constellations and Blaidd to be wrong in thinking that the stars are very small, or Radahn not to manipulate the stars. Don't reverse the roles.

I don't know what exactly you're thinking for each of the 8 points, but for the last one you're delusional: killing Radahn literally opens the way to Nokron by making a very literal hole in the ground. I don't see where the pointless is. On the other hand, according to my interpretation of the "crushing victory" (Radahn expelled the influence of one or more Outer Gods, including Ranni's) it is even more useful.

Yes, we can. One time fights have a lot.

This is not a "one time fight". It is an image showing a moment of one of their fights. That's not enough.

It's from the Opening Cinematic, it's entirely valid. Have you even bothered to play the game?

So what? It is absolutely insufficient to say that Morgott is physically stronger than Radahn

So, everything you said before was pointless because your were disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, right.

No. Your assertion is "Morgott is stronger". My assertion is "Morgott is of comparable strength". It is not the same thing.

 

[Ellbekarym]

Not exactly. They're closer to the camera, and Morgott himself is crouching noticeably

I was going to say that this was insufficient, that they were very close and that it would be hard to understand why and how Radahn would have grown so significantly between that moment and his fight with Malenia later on.

But now that I say that, I remember that the thrones we see in the capital are all the same size and too small for Radhan. So I don't know what to think.

 

[Udlmaster]

The precession of the equinoxes is caused by the movement of the Earth (the fluctuation of its axis of rotation).

Where the **** did I say it wasn't? Why are you making up counter-points to an argument I never made.

I repeat myself a fourth time: you are wrong. Hipparchus did not discover the proper motion of the stars, he discovered the precession of the equinoxes which is an apparent motion caused by the variation of the Earth's rotation axis.

Where the **** did I say Hipparchus discovered the proper motion of the stars?

Are you trolling, you must have impossibly bad reading comprehension.

Since you're either profoundly wrong or lying, here, let me refresh your memory on what I said, since people can see it:

For example, the precession of the equinoxes, something that is almost entirely undetectable, as the axis rotation of the Earth's cycle is around 26,000 years, was discovered in 200 BCE by Hipparchus.

This is not true. When you say "I stop a train" you stop it in the terrestrial reference frame. You are not going to say that the train is not stopped because it continues to move around the center of the Earth, around the Sun, around the galactic center etc. This is what I meant by "your frame of reference", sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

"This is not true" - then proceeds to change their argument entirely.

That would be absurd, wouldn't it? I agree perfectly. And that's what I'm pointing out: any literal interpretation of "he stops the stars" borders on the absurd.

No, it doesn't.

The Earth continues to rotate, if the stars are stopped, it means they no longer orbit their celestial bodies and would not move around the galaxy.

What this means is that the formation of the stars, such as the Constellations, would not change shape, as they do over thousands of years.

As I said in my original post, because my argument remains valid, Constellations move and change shape, the Zodiac, the shapes of the Constellations being assigned to Earthly depictions, will eventually no longer exist and will become something else.

It doesn't make sense because talking about the cycle of constellations outside the apparent cycle caused by the rotation of the Earth around its axis doesn't make sense in itself.

Yes, it can. Your inability to conceive of things outside of your narrow view does not an argument make.

"Constellation cycle" refers to the apparent movement of the constellations around the polar axis. All the time, everywhere, universally. Because there is no other.

Except, we know they're not talking about that, because they do still move around the Axis of the Earth, because its not the Axis or Earth that has stopped, its the Stars.

Do you get it yet, The Starssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

Not so. If A says "the Sun is rising" and B says "the Sun is rising", all you need to do is interpret the phrase "the Sun is rising" correctly so that A and B don't need to lie or be hyperbolic.

You completely changed your argument, again, since you're either dishonest or ignorant of your own argument, I'll refresh you:

There is nothing special to realize, except that the expression "stop the cycle of constellations" is not to be taken literally.

You did not say "all you need to do is re-interpret "stop the cycle of the constellations", you said they should not be taken literally.

But all evidence contradicts you, you have no basis for your skepticism.

On the other hand, you are the one who needs Sellen to say something absurd when talking about the cycle of constellations and Blaidd to be wrong in thinking that the stars are very small, or Radahn not to manipulate the stars. Don't reverse the roles.

We've already been over the "Falling stars" argument and I debunked it.

Pick a new argument, because your sophistry is tiring.

I don't know what exactly you're thinking for each of the 8 points, but for the last one you're delusional: killing Radahn literally opens the way to Nokron by making a very literal hole in the ground. I don't see where the pointless is. On the other hand, according to my interpretation of the "crushing victory" (Radahn expelled the influence of one or more Outer Gods, including Ranni's) it is even more useful.

I'm afraid to tell you, since you believe me delusional, but if you'd played the game, that was NOT why we killed Radahn.

We knew nothing of the Shooting star that hit the top of Nokron, if you bothered the play the game and not waste my valuable time with your brain-dead arguments, you'd know exactly why Blaidd and the Player kill Radahn and know it has **** all to do with dropping a meteor on Nokron.

Maybe play the game instead of coming here with baseless argumentation based on nothing but your narrow-minded interpretation of events.

This is not a "one time fight". It is an image showing a moment of one of their fights. That's not enough.

Margit has 1 fight with Radahn and it is the one depicted. We do not know if they fought another time.

And it's a part of the opening of the game, we have no reason to distrust it in anyway.

You are trying brainless scepticism and I won't let you.

Either get some evidence to prove Radahn beat Margit or do not come back.

So what? It is absolutely insufficient to say that Morgott is physically stronger than Radahn

Go on ad-nausuem, you have no evidence.

 

[Ellbekarym]

Where the **** did I say it wasn't? Why are you making up counter-points to an argument I never made.

Don't worry, I'll remind you:

No, it's not obvious. Or rather, what seems obvious to me, is that by "stopping the movement of the stars" one implies the apparent movement of the stars around the Earth. This movement is due to the rotation of the Earth (around itself and around the sun). The real movement of the stars is invisible to the naked eye.

No, they don't. If I say "I'm going to stop a train" that doesn't mean I imply the movement of the train relative to you.

And yes, while almost imperceptible, was still measured.

For example, the precession of the equinoxes, something that is almost entirely undetectable, as the axis rotation of the Earth's cycle is around 26,000 years, was discovered in 200 BCE by Hipparchus.

You say that the proper motion of the stars, although imperceptible, was measured. You give the example of the precession of equinoxes of Hipparchus. So you thought it was about the proper motion.

And you add a layer here:

But this is off-topic because, again, I think that when we talk about the motion of the stars we are talking about the motion visible from the point of view of the Earth aka the one caused by the motion of the Earth itself.

There's no evidence to support this, and going by historical understandings, also disproves this because WE already know by the time of the Romans that the Fixed stars can move.

You literally say that the Romans thought that the fixed stars moved, "by historical understandings" that is to say by relying on the example of the equinoxes.

Where the **** did I say Hipparchus discovered the proper motion of the stars?

Tough memory problems! But I am patient. Here:

As you just said, the precession of the equinoxes is caused by the peridonic change of the Earth's rotation axis. In other words, it is an apparent movement of the stars caused by a real movement of the Earth. Stopping the precession of the equinoxes would be equivalent to stopping the subtle change of the Earth's rotation axis, not the motion of the stars. Very good example, thank you.

Regarding the intrinsic motion of the stars, we owe it to Edmond Halley in 1698: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmond_Halley

Otherwise, during almost the whole human history, still today in the common language and in astrology, the motion of the stars and even more the cycle of constellations concerns the apparent motion of the stars due to the motion of the Earth.

"Hipparchus of Nicaea (/hɪˈpɑːrkəs/; Greek: Ἵππαρχος, Hipparkhos; c. 190 – c. 120 BC) was a Greek astronomer, geographer, and mathematician. He is considered the founder of trigonometry,[1] but is most famous for his incidental discovery of precession of the equinoxes."

3 seconds. 3 ******* seconds.

I tell you that the proper motion was discovered by Halley in 1698 (but in fact it was 1718). You think you contradict me by quoting Wikipedia which says that Hipparchus discovered the procession of the equinoxes 2000 years earlier. So you thought that the procession of the equinoxes was about the proper motion of the stars. Apparently, you should have done more than "three ******* seconds" of research.

Are you trolling, you must have impossibly bad reading comprehension.

Since you're either profoundly wrong or lying, here, let me refresh your memory on what I said, since people can see it:

The funny thing is that the fact that you were wrong about the procession of the equinoxes is of no importance for the debate, except to prove your bad faith. But lying so blatantly to try to save face is really giving yourself away.

No, it doesn't.

The Earth continues to rotate, if the stars are stopped, it means they no longer orbit their celestial bodies and would not move around the galaxy.

Indeed. If the stars don't move anymore, the constellations will continue to turn around the polar axis forever. The cycle of constellations will not stop. On the contrary, it will be perpetuated.

What this means is that the formation of the stars, such as the Constellations, would not change shape, as they do over thousands of years.

As I said in my original post, because my argument remains valid, Constellations move and change shape, the Zodiac, the shapes of the Constellations being assigned to Earthly depictions, will eventually no longer exist and will become something else.

Absolutely. This is precisely my argument to say that the "cycle of constellations" necessarily refers to the rotation around the polar axis and not to the rotation around the galactic center which does not exist since constellations are not stable enough structures for that. You have understood perfectly.

Yes, it can. Your inability to conceive of things outside of your narrow view does not an argument make.

No, it can't. Precisely because of what you just said exactly one line above.

Except, we know they're not talking about that, because they do still move around the Axis of the Earth, because its not the Axis or Earth that has stopped, its the Stars.

Do you get it yet, The Starssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

I repeat myself: I do not believe that the Earth is stopped. I show that no literal interpretation of "he stopped the stars" holds. So yes, the Earth is not stopped.

You completely changed your argument, again, since you're either dishonest or ignorant of your own argument, I'll refresh you:

You did not say "all you need to do is re-interpret "stop the cycle of the constellations", you said they should not be taken literally.

But all evidence contradicts you, you have no basis for your skepticism.

You're elucidating. Not taking it literally means interpreting it. Not taking the phrase "the Sun is rising" literally means interpreting it as referring to the arrival of the day caused by the movement of the Earth and not by an actual movement of the Sun.

We've already been over the "Falling stars" argument and I debunked it.

Pick a new argument, because your sophistry is tiring.

This is not true. The argument still stands. Blaidd says, I can't fathom how Radahn was holding back something of that scale.

Either Blaidd thinks the stars are very small, or he thinks Radahn was not literally holding back the stars. There is no other alternative.

I'm afraid to tell you, since you believe me delusional, but if you'd played the game, that was NOT why we killed Radahn.

We knew nothing of the Shooting star that hit the top of Nokron, if you bothered the play the game and not waste my valuable time with your brain-dead arguments, you'd know exactly why Blaidd and the Player kill Radahn and know it has **** all to do with dropping a meteor on Nokron.

Maybe play the game instead of coming here with baseless argumentation based on nothing but your narrow-minded interpretation of events.

Indeed, I know it perfectly well and since you don't seem to know it, I will teach you. Ranni asks Blaidd and the Tarnished to go to Nokron. You both go underground but you cannot find a way to reach the city. You learn through Sellen that Radahn, by his victory over the stars, prevents Ranni's destiny from being realized. Therefore it is necessary to kill him. You kill him. Immediately afterwards a meteor crashes on Limgrave and opens a passage to Nokron.

You want to kill Radahn to go to Nokron. You kill Radahn and as a result a meteor opens the way to Nokron. But this great genius of Udlmaster thinks that the meteor has "**** all to do" with going to Nokron, the motivation behind killing Radahn. A prodigy indeed.

Blaidd pushes the point home: And, the path has now been cleared. To Nokron, where Ranni's fate will be decided. Let's meet where the falling star bit the earth.

As soon as the meteor is crushed, he instantly deduces that it opens the way to Nokron. But no, nothing to see.

Margit has 1 fight with Radahn and it is the one depicted. We do not know if they fought another time.

And it's a part of the opening of the game, we have no reason to distrust it in anyway.

Indeed. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm saying it's not enough.

You are trying brainless scepticism and I won't let you.

Either get some evidence to prove Radahn beat Margit or do not come back.

In fact, I don't need to prove that Radahn defeated Morgott since I don't say that Radahn is physically stronger than Morgott. You need to say that Morgott physically defeated Radahn and you have no proof.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

This is entertaining

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Something interesting to note about Radahn is that the night in Lands Between has very few visible stars prior to his defeat and MANY more after that

Aside from that, we should just drop the whole "he stopped the earth rotation", literally at NO poin t it is suggested he did anything to the planet for this feat, for the shifting to night stuff during the boss battle maybe (would it be proper tier 5-A?) but not the gravity well stuff, all informations are about him affecting the stars

 

[Ellbekarym]

Something interesting to note about Radahn is that the night in Lands Between has very few visible stars prior to his defeat and MANY more after that

I just tested this today and it doesn't seem to be true. There are a lot of stars in Liurnia in general and much less in other areas. I don't see a noticeable change between before and after Radahn. That would have been cool, though.

Aside from that, we should just drop the whole "he stopped the earth rotation", literally at NO poin t it is suggested he did anything to the planet for this feat, for the shifting to night stuff during the boss battle maybe (would it be proper tier 5-A?) but not the gravity well stuff, all informations are about him affecting the stars

As far as switching to night is concerned, this seems to be a pure aesthetic effect. We also switch to night after the cinematic before the fight. You don't have to read much into it.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I just tested this today and it doesn't seem to be true. There are a lot of stars in Liurnia in general and much less in other areas. I don't see a noticeable change between before and after Radahn. That would have been cool, though.

Mmh I'll check it out to just to be sure when I'll start doing my second playthrough again and defeat him

As far as switching to night is concerned, this seems to be a pure aesthetic effect. We also switch to night after the cinematic before the fight. You don't have to read much into it.

Emirp seemed to think this could be a feat we could use for a 5-A tier or something like that. Tbh, it's weird that suddenly the red sky of Caelid shifts to night in the middle of the fight, especially that fast

 

[Qawsedf234]

You may get something from Astel nuking Nokron's fake star controlling moon.

Tier wise I think you're topping out at 8-7 since there aren't storm feats like in Darksouls. The only way to get higher is treating Radahn, the Elden Beast and Ranni's statement about Rennala as involving actual stars, in which case the strongest demigods are 4-A.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

You may get something from Astel nuking Nokron's fake star controlling moon.

What? Can't reind anything about something like that?

Tier wise I think you're topping out at 8-7 since there aren't storm feats like in Darksouls. The only way to get higher is treating Radahn, the Elden Beast and Ranni's statement about Rennala as involving actual stars, in which case the strongest demigods are 4-A.

Yeah, once again it will depend on Radahn and the Beast at the very least (don't know about Rennala's stuff being literal, though I don't really Ranni would have meant by "the night she conjureth" if it was just a way of talking)

 

[Paul_Frank]

Since, from what I can see above, the anti star arguments are laughably bad, here's my comment on the star stuff

We know from Sellen that Radahn stopped the constellations, we know from several items that he stopped the stars, we know from other items that people know stars and meteors aren't the same so we can't even use that as an argument, especially since the only thing that could be stretched to mean it was all meteors is Blaidd's line after his death being taken above everything else in the game

The argument that Radahn stopped the Earth instead of the stars falls apart when you realize that means he's controlling the day/night cycle and moving the stars around the planet so they show up at night anyway, not only would this also be tier 4, it's never implied and he's also uhh, insane, which makes this illogical to assume.

Another minor thing, we can actually see in Radahn's death cuscene, that the stars in the sky get brighter after he dies, even before we see the meteor streaking toward Limgrave some stars start glowing brighter again instead of being dim

Onto the Elden Beast thing, I'd assume the argument against his nebulae(?) making would be "it's in the Erdtree so it can't be full sized stars" however you should realize that the Erdtree is not physical, as things grown from its parts are explictly known as illusory

A golden seed, found at the base of an illusory tree. When the Elden Ring was shattered, these seeds flew from the Erdtree.

The Erdtree also is clearly non physical as we can see it doesn't grow into the ground, no it clips through it and is translucent, the ring (which the beast is) is noted a few times as being able to manipulate the tree like it manipulates the golden order, and the realm the Elden Beast brings us to also contains several other Erdtrees, this combined with the fact that even Radagon's room is only accessible through teleporting, not like we physically walked into the tree and just walked to the center, clearly shows that the inside of the Elden Beast's realm where it made these nebulae isn't limited by the size of the tree (since it contains more trees anyway), and so this argument can't be used to dismiss it

Then there's Ranni's ending where she says she was going to move her order (she tells us this is the night and stars) an infinite distance away from the planet, so that it was out of sight and out of mind of the people, and had no influence on them, this is another blatant tier 4 feat especially when combined with the visual of stars moving closer into the center of her dark moon, showing she did in fact, mean she's moving the stars away like she said

The ring as far back as the trailer was also noted as being able to control the stars, there's not exactly an argument that's even possible against this one, this one also backs up the Elden Beast (the physical form of the ring) making stars in its realm

So in conclusion, without a lot of unsubstantiated headcanon and ignoring lines, Radahn's thing is very clearly tier 4, the Elden Beast's thing is very clearly also tier 4 as the only argument against it is "b-but its in the tree" which is weak as I've addressed, Ranni's ending also very clearly talks about moving the stars and shows it, and then the trailer even establishes this as a power of the ring

The only feat related to stars that I can even see as able to be contested is Rennala's, if you decide you think it was all an illusion from Ranni (an illusion that calls herself Rennala, talks to you when you die, and talks to Ranni when she loses, and one that despite being so powerful, Ranni never uses on any other threat, if it wasn't clear enough, I think thats a bad argument too)

As for who this would scale to, the issue with Radahn is that he's really, really early game, like, the festival opens after getting both medallion halves or reaching Altus, and he's leveled appropriately for pre Leyndell content, it's clear what point in the game this fight is meant to have taken place during. Which means this scales to the Tarnished from early/mid game (for the sake of this I'm saying early game as pre capital, mid game as capital and Altus/Volcano Manor, late game as mountaintop, Mohgwyn, and Haligtree, and endgame as Farum Azula on)

This means it scales to the majority of demigods, something consistent with the fact that even if they were weaker, they were still relative to Radahn, given he didn't just kill everyone instantly and then fight Malenia.

 

[Qawsedf234]

What? Can't reind anything about something like that?

Memory Stone

"A black, lightly beguiling stone. Prized by the sorcerers who produce them. Said to be a fragment of the black moon that once hung above the Eternal City."

Moon of Nokstella

"This talisman represents the lost black moon. The moon of Nokstella was the guide of countless stars."

Then some of Astel's spells mention the moon shattering and raining death forever ago.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Memory Stone

I was playing as a mage, spent a long time finding other Memory Stones for my arsenal and somehow was dumb enough to miss this?!?!

Moon of Nokstella

Then some of Astel's spells mention the moon shattering and raining death forever ago.

In that case, we have a solid tier 5 feat I believe (assuming this gets accepted)

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Since, from what I can see above, the anti star arguments are laughably bad, here's my comment on the star stuff

We know from Sellen that Radahn stopped the constellations, we know from several items that he stopped the stars, we know from other items that people know stars and meteors aren't the same so we can't even use that as an argument, especially since the only thing that could be stretched to mean it was all meteors is Blaidd's line after his death being taken above everything else in the game

The argument that Radahn stopped the Earth instead of the stars falls apart when you realize that means he's controlling the day/night cycle and moving the stars around the planet so they show up at night anyway, not only would this also be tier 4, it's never implied and he's also uhh, insane, which makes this illogical to assume.

Another minor thing, we can actually see in Radahn's death cuscene, that the stars in the sky get brighter after he dies, even before we see the meteor streaking toward Limgrave some stars start glowing brighter again instead of being dim

Onto the Elden Beast thing, I'd assume the argument against his nebulae(?) making would be "it's in the Erdtree so it can't be full sized stars" however you should realize that the Erdtree is not physical, as things grown from its parts are explictly known as illusory

The Erdtree also is clearly non physical as we can see it doesn't grow into the ground, no it clips through it and is translucent, the ring (which the beast is) is noted a few times as being able to manipulate the tree like it manipulates the golden order, and the realm the Elden Beast brings us to also contains several other Erdtrees, this combined with the fact that even Radagon's room is only accessible through teleporting, not like we physically walked into the tree and just walked to the center, clearly shows that the inside of the Elden Beast's realm where it made these nebulae isn't limited by the size of the tree (since it contains more trees anyway), and so this argument can't be used to dismiss it

Then there's Ranni's ending where she says she was going to move her order (she tells us this is the night and stars) an infinite distance away from the planet, so that it was out of sight and out of mind of the people, and had no influence on them, this is another blatant tier 4 feat especially when combined with the visual of stars moving closer into the center of her dark moon, showing she did in fact, mean she's moving the stars away like she said

The ring as far back as the trailer was also noted as being able to control the stars, there's not exactly an argument that's even possible against this one, this one also backs up the Elden Beast (the physical form of the ring) making stars in its realm

So in conclusion, without a lot of unsubstantiated headcanon and ignoring lines, Radahn's thing is very clearly tier 4, the Elden Beast's thing is very clearly also tier 4 as the only argument against it is "b-but its in the tree" which is weak as I've addressed, Ranni's ending also very clearly talks about moving the stars and shows it, and then the trailer even establishes this as a power of the ring

The only feat related to stars that I can even see as able to be contested is Rennala's, if you decide you think it was all an illusion from Ranni (an illusion that calls herself Rennala, talks to you when you die, and talks to Ranni when she loses, and one that despite being so powerful, Ranni never uses on any other threat, if it wasn't clear enough, I think thats a bad argument too)

As for who this would scale to, the issue with Radahn is that he's really, really early game, like, the festival opens after getting both medallion halves or reaching Altus, and he's leveled appropriately for pre Leyndell content, it's clear what point in the game this fight is meant to have taken place during. Which means this scales to the Tarnished from early/mid game (for the sake of this I'm saying early game as pre capital, mid game as capital and Altus/Volcano Manor, late game as mountaintop, Mohgwyn, and Haligtree, and endgame as Farum Azula on)

This means it scales to the majority of demigods, something consistent with the fact that even if they were weaker, they were still relative to Radahn, given he didn't just kill everyone instantly and then fight Malenia.

I recall someone saying the trailer where the star stuff is mentionned shouldn't be used as proof of tier 4 (can't remember exactly why but I think the reason was because it was early development so it shouldn't be believed).
Don't about the Ranni ending stuff cause of the translation problems, I'm not aware of what she says in the Japanese text wich would be the real version

Aside from that, I find myself agreeing with pretty much everything said. Very well done dear Touko

 

[Qawsedf234]

aren't the same so we can't even use that as an argument

The issue here is that the void born and the Starbeasts are explicitly called stars. The giant ball of faces were intended to become stars and the Elden Beast itself was also called a star.

Multiple spell descriptions also mention summoning exploding stars that are just clearly not supernovas.

The Erdtree also is clearly non physical as we can see it doesn't grow into the ground,

But you can build things into it and it was covered in physical thorns that prevented entry. It also has roots and grows.

Then there's Ranni's ending where she says she was going to move her order (she tells us this is the night and stars) an infinite distance away from the planet, so that it was out of sight and out of mind of the people, and had no influence on them, this is another blatant tier 4 feat especially when combined with the visual of stars moving closer into the center of her dark moon, showing she did in fact, mean she's moving the stars away like she said

I'm not seeing that at all

• Mine will be an order not of gold, but the stars and moon of the chill night.
  I would keep them far from the earth beneath our feet. As it is now, life, and souls, and order are bound tightly together, but I would have them at great remove.

She going to stop the interference of Outer Gods, but not shive stars an infinite distance away. The moon thing is a reference to the false Nokron moon that was stated to also control the movements of stars.

The ring as far back as the trailer was also noted as being able to control the stars, there's not exactly an argument that's even possible against this one

If there wasn't an argument against Radahn we would already have profiles for everyone.

 

[Qawsedf234]

In that case, we have a solid tier 5 feat I believe (assuming this gets accepted)

Shattering the moon is High 6A I think, not 5-C.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Shattering the moon is High 6A I think, not 5-C.

Well still an excellent feat

You think this can get accepted?

 

[Qawsedf234]

You think this can get accepted?

Personally I think the best option is to calc their physical showings and hard lore feats Magma Wyrms, shattering stone pillars, dragon KE, the petrified dragon's KE and the ice dragon storms), scale people to Astel moon thing and just give certain people a possibly 4-A rating.

For Radahn I actually don't think that anyone would really scale to his 4-A feat until the Elden Beast, as Blaidd and others note that he was constantly supplying magic to keep everything in check. So even against Malenia he was constantly nerfing himself by keeping the stars at bay.

No one ever fought a peak max sized Radahn who was focusing all of his strength on them.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Hell yeah, a Soulsborne game where the final boes is in their prime, except maybe SoC/Gael

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wasn't the Moon Outergod in it's prime when the Hunter fought it? They even required an amp to just stave off its mental compulsion.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Hell yeah, a Soulsborne game where the final boes is in their prime, except maybe SoC/Gael

Wdym, King Allant was at his prime in his final form

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Personally I think the best option is to calc their physical showings and hard lore feats Magma Wyrms, shattering stone pillars, dragon KE, the petrified dragon's KE and the ice dragon storms), scale people to Astel moon thing and just give certain people a possibly 4-A rating.

For Radahn I actually don't think that anyone would really scale to his 4-A feat until the Elden Beast, as Blaidd and others note that he was constantly supplying magic to keep everything in check. So even against Malenia he was constantly nerfing himself by keeping the stars at bay.

No one ever fought a peak max sized Radahn who was focusing all of his strength on them.

Sounds like the best idea (though I think Endgame Tarnished would be like the Elden Beast and same for Radagon since the Tarnished fights Radagon before going for the Beast immediately after that)

Don't think this is going to simply end there but thank you for the help

 

[Paul_Frank]

The issue here is that the void born and the Starbeasts are explicitly called stars. The giant ball of faces were intended to become stars and the Elden Beast itself was also called a star.

They're both called fallingstars, which the gravity stone items and meteoric ore blade inform us are meteors. The giant ball of faces were consequences of messing with the primeval flow, they were fashioned into "the seeds of stars" we don't know what that means but it's not stars themselves. And the Elden Beast was never called a star, it arrived on a star

It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring.

Multiple spell descriptions also mention summoning exploding stars that are just clearly not supernovas.

I assume you mean stuff like the one spell that says it shoots shooting stars and stuff, but in that case we just ignore those because they aren't actual stars (like how we made sunlight spear not sol despite being called sunlight), comet azur actually gives us an explanation for this

Fires a tremendous comet in a torrent akin to the distant starry expanse, the place said to be the origin of glintstone

Glintstone is the energy of the cosmos, modeled off of stars, which is why they name their projectiles off of celestial phenomenon

But you can build things into it and it was covered in physical thorns that prevented entry. It also has roots and grows.

Yes, but that doesn't stop the very clear showings and statements saying it's not a physical thing, it's likely it can sorta just function as both, a non physical conceptual sorta embodiment of order, and also as a tree when convenient

I'm not seeing that at all

She going to stop the interference of Outer Gods, but not shive stars an infinite distance away. The moon thing is a reference to the false Nokron moon that was stated to also control the movements of stars.

This is the English version, the japanese version is as follows

私は誓おう　すべての生命と、すべての魂に
“I shall swear to all lives and souls”

これよりは星の世紀
“From hereon is the Age of Stars”

月の理、千年の旅
“The laws of the moon, a thousand year journey”

すべてよ、冷たい夜、はるか遠くに思うがよい
“To all, you may think of the chill night as infinitely far away”

恐れを、迷いを、孤独を　そして暗きに行く路を　さあ、行こうか
“And now, let us go on our path of fear, doubt, and loneliness, into darkness”

She's moving her order infinitely far away, and her other dialogue shows her order is the stars and night

私の律について
“About my order”

私の律は、黄金ではない。星と月、冷たい夜の律だ
“My order will not be of gold, but of the stars and moon, and chill night.”

…私はそれを、この地から遠ざけたいのだ
“…I want to keep it far away from this land.”

生命と魂が、律と共にあるとしても、それは遥かに遠くにあればよい
“…Even if life and souls are one with the order, it (the order) could be kept far away.”

確かに見ることも、感じることも、信じることも、触れることも
…すべて、できない方がよい
“If it was not possible to clearly see, feel, believe in, or touch the order… That would be better.”

だから私は、律と共に、この地を棄てる
“That is why I will leave this place, along with the order

I recall someone saying the trailer where the star stuff is mentionned shouldn't be used as proof of tier 4 (can't remember exactly why but I think the reason was because it was early development so it shouldn't be believed).

This is a really weird argument, and a poor one

Don't about the Ranni ending stuff cause of the translation problems, I'm not aware of what she says in the Japanese text wich would be the real version

I posted the japanese along with the tl's above, feel free to double check it

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Wasn't the Moon Outergod in it's prime when the Hunter fought it? They even required an amp to just stave off its mental compulsion.

Wdym, King Allant was at his prime in his final form

I cant even play Demons Souls or Bloodborne, you can't expect me to remember them

But you can also fault me for forgetting Isshin soooooo

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Sounds like the best idea (though I think Endgame Tarnished would be like the Elden Beast and same for Radagon since the Tarnished fights Radagon before going for the Beast immediately after that)

Don't think this is going to simply end there but thank you for the help

What about Godfrey, wasnt he just going to go up to Radagon/Elden Beast and beat the shit out of them?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

What about Godfrey, wasnt he just going to go up to Radagon/Elden Beast and beat the shit out of them?

Tbh, I think he can scale to, the guy fought the Tarnished right before the lad went to Radagon and right after that the Beast so yep

 

[Qawsedf234]

She's moving her order infinitely far

She's not. The dialogue provided has her say "To all, you may think of the chill night as infinitely far away ".

"You may think" isn't a hard statement as, she's just reinforcing that the new order will be far away and no longer controlling as the Golden Order.

They're both called fallingstars, which the gravity stone items and meteoric ore blade inform us are meteors.

Astel's backstory with the fallen city also called the meteor rain as falling stars and the two examples we directly see from Radahn's spell ending are meteor strikes and not suns falling into the Earth.

If it was cut and dry we wouldn't have six pages and multiple contradictory statements about stars.

What about Godfrey, wasnt he just going to go up to Radagon/Elden Beast and beat the shit out of them?

Trying and succeeding are two different things tbf.

But unless Tarnished got like, Omega swole 30 seconds later it would be weird for them to not share a tier.

though I think Endgame Tarnished would be like the Elden Beast and same for Radagon since the Tarnished fights Radagon before going for the Beast immediately after that

Elden Beast being possibly 4-A for the arena change and God Marika/Radagon are probably fine imo.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Trying and succeeding are two different things tbf.

But unless Tarnished got like, Omega swole 30 seconds later it would be weird for them to not share a tier.

Wait so what about Ghideon? Godfrey was fought right after him.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wait so what about Ghideon?

Personal bias included here, but Ghideon and the other Tarnished never tried or even succeeded in beating any of the shard holders. I don't think that Gideon trying and then instantly failing to stop the Tarnished means he should scale.

But I don't know how we treat FromSoft fights like that. How do we handle other stompable PC-esq fights in other games?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I...honestly don't know. Gideon is indeed fought right before Godfrey but he's laughably easy and aside from being able to use spells from demigods like Malenia and Mohg, nothing suggests he's this strong

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I...honestly don't know. Gideon is indeed fought right before Godfrey but he's laughably easy and aside from being able to use spells from demigods like Malenia and Mohg, nothing suggests he's this strong

For a melee character who likes to bait out long attacks to get some good hits in, I wouldn't say he was laughably easy...

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I think he can get something like "At least (whatever tier we give to the Tarnished before the EB tier), likely higher/possibly EB tier" with the justification being that while he wasn't probably as powerful as the likes of Godfrey, he still fought against the Tarnished near the end. Gonna be fun to make his profile (says the guy who IS dealing with his profile and even made a draft for him lol)

About scaling, so (let's assume it gets accepted, just for the sake of it), endgame Tarnished, Radagon,, Godfrey and the Beast all get 4-A/possibly 4-A and demigods except Godrick (since even in-universe he's stated to be a third-rate competitor at best and a distant descendant of Marika unlike the others and got utterly crushed by Morgott and Malenia), so basically Radahn, Malenia, Morgott, Mohg, Rykard would scale to Astel and get High 6-A?

Also, what about Rennala? In her prime she met Radagon on the battlefied and dueled him and their fight ended with no victor, could she scale to Radagon in her prime self (obviously she's gonna get two keys)?

 

[Paul_Frank]

Endgame should be Maliketh, Godfrey and Elden Beast

Maliketh is included because it's weird to assume the Tarnished got much stronger between him and the Elden Beast, when it's established that Gideon is nowhere near our level likely, and Godfrey is the only remembrance boss between Maliketh and Radagon, since canonically we seem to have just went straight from Maliketh to beating the game after unleashing death. Godfrey is included because he's just like, right outside the door and we just go in after beating him so yeah

Gideon shouldn't scale because his dialogue seems to imply not only does he think we're the strongest of the Tarnished (his "not even you"), he thinks no Tarnished including himself or us can fight against Radagon, so he's putting us above himself, and then still arguing we couldn't beat a god, which we see is true, so even while knowing he was weaker than us he didn't know exactly how strong we were either.

I know...in my bones...

A Tarnished cannot become a Lord. Not even you.

A man cannot kill a god...

This as I've said, implies that he thinks we're stronger than him, and then thinks we shouldn't be able to kill Radagon anyway, if he thinks we're stronger and couldn't do it, he definitely shouldn't scale to Radagon

She's not. The dialogue provided has her say "To all, you may think of the chill night as infinitely far away ".

"You may think" isn't a hard statement as, she's just reinforcing that the new order will be far away and no longer controlling as the Golden Order.

She's saying that as she's moving it, if shes moving it and then saying you can think of it as infinitely far it implies shes actually going to do that, but even if you think it's not an actual infinite distance the point is she's moving it a significant distance, and the other parts tell us what that entails, along with visuals showing it

Astel's backstory with the fallen city also called the meteor rain as falling stars and the two examples we directly see from Radahn's spell ending are meteor strikes and not suns falling into the Earth.

Yes, and as I've said above falling stars are also clarified to mean meteors and not stars that are falling

If it was cut and dry we wouldn't have six pages and multiple contradictory statements about stars.

It is pretty cut and dry to me and a lot of discord, you just need to actually look at everything together, and not do whatever has happened for 6 pages here