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Edelweiss vs Emiya (Archer)

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There are few things Emiya can do tbh. I mean yes he has a huge AP advantage, but this is Desperado domain. The dudes who can will your death into reality. There is also the passive fear hax.
 
Emiya traces Edelweiss sword and traces the history of the weapon thus reproducing Edelweiss' swordsmanship. Emiya then uses that + blade spam gg
 
What exactly is stopying Emiya from copying her sword when his only limit are DIvine Mysteries, which are pretty much the cream of the cream of the cream of the crop?
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
What exactly is stopying Emiya from copying her sword when his only limit are DIvine Mysteries, which are pretty much the cream of the cream of the cream of the crop?
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Devices are manifestations of one's soul. Good luck copying that. But again that is not the problem in this fight.
 
That really doesn't matter. It's still a physical thing and a weapon to boot, there's very much no reason to think he can't copy it.

I don't see much to think Archer gets affected by everything else much. Servants can already resists Chaos Tide, and he should be able to some level take Angra Mainyu's mud, made of billions of curses that can drive a person mad easily. Its mostly it's corruptive qualities that **** them.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
What's the best swordsmanship he's copied and what does it consist of?
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^^^

This is what i mean. He could recreate a copy of the sword, no big deal, though it'll be physical rather than soul based like Edelweiss'. Pretty sure he cannot copy her swordstyle though.
 
I am not sure why that's important. His limit has never been the skill of the weapon's wielder, only the weapon itself. And a weapon made out of a soul is not comparable to a divine construct.
 
It would be NLF to assume he can copy just any sword technique. Edelweiss consists of many things such as controlling all aspects of the body from nerve cells to hair strands so copying the techniqie he needs to have full control over his body and subcoinscious mind.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
I am not sure why that's important. His limit has never been the skill of the weapon's wielder, only the weapon itself. And a weapon made out of a soul is not comparable to a divine construct.
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Talking about swordsmaship, not the sword itself boi. I mean why is copying her swords such a big deal in the first place? It's not like he's gaining an advantage, if anything it's putting him at a disadvantage due to taking the fight to her turf with twin swords.
 
The whole point of sword copying is that he copies the entirety of the sword, from its history to experiences to anything else, and there hasn't been a relevant comment about its limits. You'd have a point if you were talking about something like Sasaki's Tsubame Gaeshi which literally ***** with parallel worlds and is considered a miracle, but this doesn't fall anywhere near there.
 
So what is the best swordsmanship he's shown to copy then? It doesn't matter to carry out the techniques certain conditions have to be met. Like the body of the user of the technique. If he can't replicate her control over her body and mind he can't do it. Saying he can do this when he hasn't done anything remotely close is NLF. Maybe he can copy techniques that don't require the extent of control Edelweiss has.
 
I am making the argument, you are the one that needs to tell me why would Emiya not be able to copy her skill. Literally the more inexperienced Shirou that doesn't even approach Saber replicated Caliburn and didn't even need to think, his body moving automatically with all of her skill to deflect Heracles.

You two are the ones that need to give a convincing reasoning beyond "she's too skilled" just because she's incredibly skilled. At no point in fate have you ever seen Archer not being able to replicate weapons because of the user's skill, but because the weapon is far too, for a lack of better words, superior to his ability to analyze it.
 
And as I've explained, that's incredibly dumb. He wouldn't be able to copy any technique if his body wasn't suited for it or he hadn't the level of control needed, meaning Shirou couldn't copy Saber because he doesn't have her level of body control or skill, so your point is void and honestly asinine.
 
Most techniques don't require you to have full control of your body. Edelweiss's do. What is idiotic is to say he can bypass the requirements for the technique because he hasn't shown a limit to his copy capability is what is asnine. If he can copy the body control he can't do it. Simple.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
Most techniques don't require you to have full control of your body. Edelweiss's do. What is idiotic is to say he can bypass the requirements for the technique because he hasn't shown a limit to his copy capability is what is asnine. If he can copy the body control he can't do it. Simple.
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Do you realize how incredibly asinine this actually is? All martial arts is about skillful movement, control of the body, eye-hand coordination and all that good stuff. It doesn't matter if you are controlling your muscles to a whole new level, it's the very same thing, literally, just way higher. Telling me Shirou can't copy this when she's not achieving anything impossible because "he can't achieve the requirement" is pretty much telling me Shirou can't copy anybody because he doesn't have the skill requirement to control his body to the level of almost anybody he copies. Now do you actually realize what you are implying with this?
 
He can control everything as far as his biology allows, so not to the full extent of her ability, but still can copy most of her skill. He would know all of it, he'd just lack the ability to use it.
 
Normal Martial Arts doesn't consist of controlling your body on a cellular level. Even regular humans can learn literally everything you said. There is a limit. He needs to learn to control his mind to the fullest extent.

Theres also the fact that as far as I've seen he hasn't copied anything to this extent.

If you're body is limited then you can't do certain things. That's an undeniable fact and it's the same in this case.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
He can control everything as far as his biology allows, so not to the full extent of her ability, but still can copy most of her skill. He would know all of it, he'd just lack the ability to use it.
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He doesn't have the same level of control. He can know about the ability but there's nothing he can really do to use itm
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
And as I've explained, that's incredibly dumb. He wouldn't be able to copy any technique if his body wasn't suited for it or he hadn't the level of control needed, meaning Shirou couldn't copy Saber because he doesn't have her level of body control or skill, so your point is void and honestly asinine.
Click to expand...
It's not that Shirou/Archer can't copy Saber. Archer cannot replicate Excalibur, which is noted to be unreplicatable due to it being forged by Faeries and having divine origins. In fact, as mentioned before, Shirou copied Caliburn, which is another sword Saber uses and Shirou uses Saber's swords technique subconsciously against Hercleus. Trust me, I'm a huge Rakudai shill, I was reading that shit before the LN even got translated beyond volume one. Hell, I even hate most Type-Moon franchise stuff, but there isn't any bladed weapon other than Excalibur (for reasons mentioned above) and Ea (which really isn't even a sword and also has divine origins) that Unlimited Blade Works.
 
This is the only skill lvl that's impossible for him to copy. Well his younger self said it was impossible for him to copy currently.


Their blades clash, their power and skill are equal.

Both swords transcend time and space, yet their existence and concept are the exact opposite.

Ten of thousands, hundreds of millions of "possibilities" exist. Verify them all, crush them all, stop them all. A "finite" sword that strives to reach a single "correct answer". Until there is nothing left, cut everything until only "something" remains. That is Musashi's "zero". A sword that establishes a "conclusion" that not even the gods can escape from.

A sword of infinity that leads to multiplicity. A way to acknowledge "multiple possibilities". An "infinite" sword that gives birth to several "correct answers". That is Kojiro's "Tsubame Gaeshi". A sword that creates a "future" that not even the gods can escape from.

An infinite place. Or perhaps, an empty place. There is no time. There is no space. There is no karma. There is no good or evil. A situation only those two who put their very souls into their blades can reach.

Kojiro: MUSASHI!

Musashi: KOJIRO!

A single hit. Simultaneously, both of them surpass infinity. Both of them would continue to try to kill each other. Over and over, for all of eternity.

This is not the real world, this moment will never be recorded or stopped for anyone. This place lies between the real world and the world of dreams. An impossible place where infinity and zero can intersect. But. But. There is... one more person watching them.

You are here.

You can see it. A miraculous sword fight that is supposed to go on forever, never reaching its conclusion. But at the end of the dream there can only be one winner. Who do you see? Which swordsman is standing alive and smiling? Now, say it

With your own eyes, stare at the conclusion.
 
Sdanand said:
It's not that Shirou/Archer can't copy Saber. Archer cannot replicate Excalibur, which is noted to be unreplicatable due to it being forged by Faeries and having divine origins. In fact, as mentioned before, Shirou copied Caliburn, which is another sword Saber uses and Shirou uses Saber's swords technique subconsciously against Hercleus. Trust me, I'm a huge Rakudai shill, I was reading that shit before the LN even got translated beyond volume one. Hell, I even hate most Type-Moon franchise stuff, but there isn't any bladed weapon other than Excalibur (for reasons mentioned above) and Ea (which really isn't even a sword and also has divine origins) that Unlimited Blade Works.
Click to expand...
My point had to do nothing with that, but that by that logic Shirou can't copy the skill of anybody above him as he wouldn't have the requisite body control in any case. He can copy Saber's skill just using Caliburn but that wasn't what I was arguing about.
 
Ok most of this isn't even technique. It's just power and potency. Maybe even flowery language considering none of the profiles show this level of power. A sword that creates multiple futures is most definitely not technique.
 
My point had to do nothing with that, but that by that logic Shirou can't copy the skill of anybody above him as he wouldn't have the requisite body control in any case. He can copy Saber's skill just using Caliburn but that wasn't what I was arguing about.

Well it's quite obviously apparent that Shirou does not have the same level of body control and or skill as Saber who has fought through thousands of battles while Shirou has not even been actively fighting for a week, and yet was able to perfectly trace her movements with the use of Unlimited Blade Works once Caliburn was projected.
 
Saber "body control" and Edelweiss's are entirely different. I'm 99% sure her technique doesn't require you to have full control over every aspect of your body.
 
Unlimited Blade Works can copy and store any weapons he wants as long as they are not divine ones or fall in this type.

Essentially, this magic allows Archer to reproduce any object along with its entire history so it is indistinguishable from the original. ---Unlimited Blade Works

Unlimited Blade Works -- Reality Marble as to how its described in-game.

Archer claims that it is possible to reproduce an imperfect version of Excalibur likely to drain him of all of his magical energy in a suicide attack.
 
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