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Earthlings (ToP) vs First Form Frieza
- Thread starter Omegas03
- Start date
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IIRC First Form Frieza tortured SSJ Gohan > Tagoma > Piccolo, who is at least High 4-C.
I think Frieza does the same thing here to at least Yamcha and Roshi. Tien may Tri Beam and Krillin's best bet may be the Destructo Disk. I don't even know if First Form Frieza is even High 4-C cuz it seems his power was unlike anything they felt. Heck even SSJ Gotenks who is comparable to Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku, didn't pose much a threat to Frieza and Gohan and the others didn't even bother to try to get them involved.
I think Frieza does the same thing here to at least Yamcha and Roshi. Tien may Tri Beam and Krillin's best bet may be the Destructo Disk. I don't even know if First Form Frieza is even High 4-C cuz it seems his power was unlike anything they felt. Heck even SSJ Gotenks who is comparable to Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku, didn't pose much a threat to Frieza and Gohan and the others didn't even bother to try to get them involved.
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Let's see here...
Krillin uses X100 Solar Flare -> Yamcha uses Spirit Ball to knock Frieza around -> While Frieza is stunned and disoriented, Tien uses Neo Tri-Beam to lock him down -> Roshi uses Mafuba and seals Frieza away
Failing the Mafuba, you could have Krillin use multiple Destructo Disks in the last step and then do the Mafuba on a heavily weakened Frieza.
The issue is...the Earthlings only scale to base Gohan in the Buu Saga. First Form Frieza scales above Ultimate Gohan.
First Form Frieza > Ultimate Gohan >> SS3 Gotenks >> SS3 Goku >> SS2 Goku > SS2 Gohan >> SS Goku > SS Gohan >> Base Goku > Base Gohan = Earthlings
Frieza has an insane speed and power advantage and also has the advantage of being capable of detonating the planet at any moment to win. If the Earthlings win, Frieza would have to job badly.
- Yamcha offers the Spirit Ball, but not much else.
- Krillin has the Solar Flare (Normal and X100) and split Destructo Disk
- Tien has Solar Flare, Multi-Form, Four Witches and Neo Tri-Beam
- Roshi offers Mafuba and Electric Surprise
Krillin uses X100 Solar Flare -> Yamcha uses Spirit Ball to knock Frieza around -> While Frieza is stunned and disoriented, Tien uses Neo Tri-Beam to lock him down -> Roshi uses Mafuba and seals Frieza away
Failing the Mafuba, you could have Krillin use multiple Destructo Disks in the last step and then do the Mafuba on a heavily weakened Frieza.
The issue is...the Earthlings only scale to base Gohan in the Buu Saga. First Form Frieza scales above Ultimate Gohan.
First Form Frieza > Ultimate Gohan >> SS3 Gotenks >> SS3 Goku >> SS2 Goku > SS2 Gohan >> SS Goku > SS Gohan >> Base Goku > Base Gohan = Earthlings
Frieza has an insane speed and power advantage and also has the advantage of being capable of detonating the planet at any moment to win. If the Earthlings win, Frieza would have to job badly.
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Wait, did Gotenks ever even fight Freeza? Though I guess that's irrelevant anyway due to the Gohan scaling.AwkguyDB said:
Eminiteable
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Why does first form Freeza scale to ulumate Gohan? It's established laterin super that due to a lack of training he lost his ultimate power.
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Gotenks didn't fight Frieza but Gohan was adamant on not having them fight Frieza due to how dangerous Frieza is with both power and skill. I mean if you back scale Final Form Frieza who scales to Base Goku, who is at least SSJG level of BoG, who is stronger than Vegito (At least Buu Saga but probably a hypothetical BoG saga one), then First Form Frieza should one shot.PeaceOnTheRise said:
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Wasn't the Tagoma Ssj Gohan beat stated to be stronger than Ultimate Gohan?
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAdem Warlock69 said:
Sorry had a bit of PTSD from a toxic forum I use to be on. Tagoma scales to Gohan's current (RoF) best, which was his Base form since he completely forgot SSJ at the time. To scale Tagoma to Ultimate Gohan is basically saying that Gohan's not training for over a year actually paid off since he would simply one shot his Buu Saga level as a SSJ which is utter trash XD.
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But, the entire reason Ssj Gohan (RoF),Tagoma and Frieza are 4-B is because of that statement ("he's hiding more power, and may be equal to me at my best")
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ROF Gohan needs a High 4-C downgrade then. He hasn't kept up with any form of training, if anything his SSJ form should be comparable to his Buu Saga SSJ form especially since your Base does not take on the qualites of your Ultimate form proven later on in Super. SSJ Gohan >= Ultimate Gohan would contradict with the narrative of Gohan losing his power. Even after training later on in the series his SSJ form was still not as strong as his Buu Saga Ultimate Form as explained by Goku to Piccolo.
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I think differently, personally. Ultimate Gohan doesn't NEED to use Super Saiyan, which is why Gohan (by the time of the ToP) isn't depicted as going Super Saiyan, he can use his full potential in his base form after completely retraining himself.
We clearly see that Gohan still needed to use Super Saiyan to utilise his full potential during the exhibition match with Universe 9, but after training with Piccolo and pushing his limits against SSBKK Goku, he managed to unleash all of his potential. Which would be why he never uses Super Saiyan during the ToP.
SS Gohan can very well surpass his Buu saga Ultimate incarnation, by virtue of the idea that his base form had grown stronger from the Buu saga but his Ultimate power had declined greatly due to not training to maintain it.
Consider it like this: Gohan didn't train for seven years, but retained most of his power whereas RoF Gohan didn't train for a single year and lost most of his power. This isn't because of an inconsistency, this is because the Mystic state's awakened potential was being locked away due to not training to maintain it.
So RoF Gohan's base form could still be much stronger than in the Buu saga and his difficulty at tapping into Super Saiyan could reasonably be related to not needing to use it since the Buu saga (due to the lack of threats and the Mystic state).
The essential argument I'm trying to make here is, Gohan's unleashed potential was being sealed away from not training. He didn't actually grow much weaker in RoF, he just couldn't tap into his true potential. He needed to force Super Saiyan to tap into his true potential.
By the time of the ToP, he has completely reawakened all of his latent potential, achieving his true power and no longer needing to transform to use his innate strength.
We clearly see that Gohan still needed to use Super Saiyan to utilise his full potential during the exhibition match with Universe 9, but after training with Piccolo and pushing his limits against SSBKK Goku, he managed to unleash all of his potential. Which would be why he never uses Super Saiyan during the ToP.
SS Gohan can very well surpass his Buu saga Ultimate incarnation, by virtue of the idea that his base form had grown stronger from the Buu saga but his Ultimate power had declined greatly due to not training to maintain it.
Consider it like this: Gohan didn't train for seven years, but retained most of his power whereas RoF Gohan didn't train for a single year and lost most of his power. This isn't because of an inconsistency, this is because the Mystic state's awakened potential was being locked away due to not training to maintain it.
So RoF Gohan's base form could still be much stronger than in the Buu saga and his difficulty at tapping into Super Saiyan could reasonably be related to not needing to use it since the Buu saga (due to the lack of threats and the Mystic state).
The essential argument I'm trying to make here is, Gohan's unleashed potential was being sealed away from not training. He didn't actually grow much weaker in RoF, he just couldn't tap into his true potential. He needed to force Super Saiyan to tap into his true potential.
By the time of the ToP, he has completely reawakened all of his latent potential, achieving his true power and no longer needing to transform to use his innate strength.
Eminiteable
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Super retconned that idea by just making ultimate form a transformation; there is a clear distinction between ultimate and bass made in the anime due to a white aura appearing and a little bang appearing.CryoTheMayo said:
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Yes, but the act of using Ultimate or Base is essentially equivalent to using God or Base, in my eyes. Ultimate is still 'base form' just using its unleashed potential just as SSG is just Goku using God Ki in base.
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The only 2 who can survive here are Tien and Krillin. The only way they can beat Frieza is if they use their strongest attacks. Maybe, Tien can use the Neo Tri-Beam to distract Frieza, and Krillin can use the Destructo Disc to finish Frieza off, but I don't know the chances of them pulling that off.
Voting Frieza.
Voting Frieza.
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